Relocate ISS to ME-L1

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:2a3f1d693cea6125dc30fc81efc3ee21.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Relocation of ISS to ME-L1 is much easier said than done, but it's
doable.

Station-keeping ISS initially at roughly 60,000 to 64,000 km away from
the moon(center), this is where I believe the orbital speed of this
ME-L1 nullification zone becomes roughly 165 m/s.

Even though at 400 kgf it's technically doable, obviously it's not going
to transpire any time soon, especially via this highly naysay
anti-think-tank of a GOOGLE Usenet from Jewish hell that sucks and blows
off the truth better than ever.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Actually, moving ISS into the Venus-L2(VL2) halo zone of supposedly
1,014,290 km away from that geothermally active and thus somewhat newish
orb is by far the best for all things considered.

Venus L2 for the likes of ISS can be fully staffed because, as such it
should become perfectly humanly survivable for a 19 month stint.

Upon average, I believe it could be cooler for ISS than currently
orbiting Earth, and there'd be less cosmic and obviously no moon
radiation factors, and even somewhat less solar contributed flak of
radiation to deal with.

I don't believe there's even any significant amount of trapped radiation
belts to deal with.

As compared to orbiting Earth, I don't believe there wouldn't be 10% the
station-keeping demands per month upon reboost or other reactive
thrusting demands for sustaining the orbital halo requirements.

One good resupply of fuel per 19 months should be sufficient, along with
a few less tonnage deployments of supplies (beer and pizza) getting
delivered up to +/- 6 months worth of each 19 month cycle.

Actually, a solar--steam powered form of reaction thrusting via all
that beer should be sufficient all by itself.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Here's yet another perfectly good reason to relocate our existing ISS
into the relatively safe halo sweet spot of VL2, as providing a final
pitstop before depositing those deserving souls onto that toasty surface
of Venus.

Lo and behold, I have devised yet another good use for the likes of
Venus as is: (no terraforming required)

As I've informed our Usenet resident anti-global-warming avenger "Roger
Coppock", that I'd go so far as to agree that humanity is worth as much
as 25% of our global warming fiasco, but that's about it. No matters
what, Earth is going to get itself hotter, without or w/o any help from
humanity. Therefore, we've got next to nothing to lose by going all out
towards getting folks (as many as possible) onto other planets or moons.

Here's a fully "science friendly" solution that's technically doable and
way past due. OOPS! I forgot that your all or nothing mindset of
naysayism is still in the usual fail-safe mode of denial, as to
banishing the mere thought of our moon having any impact whatsoever upon
our environment. After all, isn't it so much simpler to exclude the
evidence afforded by hard-science, and to otherwise avoid having to use
those pesky regular laws of physics?

What we badly need is a good or even not so good other planet or moon,
intended for sequestering those individuals that simply refuse to accept
the mainstream status quo of infomercial science and of infomercial
history. Of course, I'm being silly, as it should be the other way
around, or didn't you folks realize that part?

Got that "Prison Planet" ??? why the hell not Ceres ???
http://cosmic.lifeform.org/
Thomas Lee Elifritz,
Other than the prospects of getting a little crowded, perhaps "Ceres -
The Fifth Planet From A Star Called The Sun" can become our "Prison
Planet" should be looked into.

However, perhaps otherwise our extremely nearby and not so very old
Venus could also be utilized as is, such as in place of sending folks
that have failed to assimilate into the mainstream status quo to hell.

This nearby alternative would be a darn good thing for "A government
that repeatedly makes bad decisions, resulting in worsening conditions
for the country it runs."

Better yet for a "A government run by an intellectually challenged
leader."

Best of all for "A nation comprised of intellectually challenged
citizens."

But what otherwise to do if we're having to continually deal with all
the rest of those village idiots that are merely dumbfounded past the
point of no return?

Too bad we still can't even get ourselves close enough to our very own
moon without frying our frail DNA, much less walking on that physically
dark and otherwise downright nasty surface. However, the viable notion
of going underground should be entirely possible, as offering us a
terrific 'Prison Moon' alternative that we can obviously keep a close
eye on those *******s we've sent there for their own damn good.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Since it's officially Usenet taboo to even discuss relocating our
existing ISS to our moon's L1, or especially as for going off to visit
the wizard of Oz at Venus L2, in that case we'll need to start this
nifty LSE-CM/ISS entirely from scratch, or at least allow China to
accomplish what's so impossible for us, especially since we're still
trying so gosh darn hard at dominating global fossil and yellowcake
energy, and especially extra dominating and/or controlling over Muslim
oil before we manage to cause WW-III.

Once again for the record, our moon's L1 is the one and only holy grail
of future space exploration and global domination.

Here's just a few basic considerations for China utilizing our moon's
L1, whereas to improve upon what I'd previously offered to our resident
naysay/anti-think-tank likes of "Wayne Throop". This is basically what
my LSE-CM/ISS or of whatever best utilization of this Moon/Earth L1 has
to offer the open mindset type of folks that are not specifically
looking to merely stalk and bash against everything that's not of their
idea, and/or of whatever's under their sun that's apparently orbiting
their Old Testament flat Earth (and for Christ's sake on a stick, that
was merely another pun, so get over it).

I'm not the bad guy or even the messenger from hell, I'm not even anti
bible/koran thumping as long is it isn't being tossed in my face or
otherwise being utilized against my honest intentions to share and share
alike. Most faith based individuals are really quite nice folks that
wouldn't hurt a Muslim fly, whereas their supposed troopers as
represented within Usenet are for the most part downright insane.

A brief list of the moon's L1 benefits to humanity, and quite possibly
the best possible salvation to our global warming fiasco:

Moon L1 represents the ultimate of Star Wars and of NEO defensive high
ground.

Unlimited interplanetary mission launch capability, away from the 1e9 m3
CM/ISS.

Unlimited tether dipole energy (as in how many clean terawatts would you
like?)

Safe and efficient access to/from our earthshine illuminated moon's
surface.

Unlimited (mostly robotic) access to extracting lunar He3, plus
countless other nifty elements.

Effective and efficient interplanetary and interstellar communications
via quantum/FM binary laser cannon packets.

The ultimate of an efficient fuel/refuel depot, plus the one and only
efficient access to whatever tonnage of composite shielding you'd ever
care to add to each mission.

VLA/SAR imaging of say less than a meter resolution of whatever's at the
distance of Jupiter, therefore all potential NEOs of whatever's larger
than a meter are fully identified and easily tracked before their having
reached the critical realm of Jupiter.

BTW; The tether dipole element's termination platform that's extended
away from the primary L1 CM/ISS, as per reaching that dipole tethered
unit to within as little as 4r of Earth (isn't that good news, or what)
is simply a given, whereas having such a nearby interactive location can
be utilized for all sorts of invaluable contributions to Earth and moon
science and the advancement of humanity's role in exploiting the vast
wealth of other planets and moons. Imagine also how many Muslim butts
or the likes of whomever on your axis of evil list that your kind could
so easily fry from that nearby platform, that's hosting a dozen or so of
those nifty 100 GW laser cannons.

There no question that I'll have to edit a few of my existing LSE-CM/ISS
papers, in order to further reflect upon and/or embellish upon these
constructive/positive aspects of our being in charge of this one and
only moon L1 zone that's parked roughly 60,000 km from the physically
dark and nasty lunar deck.

Even if not initially tethered to the moon, the efficient
station-keeping demands per tonne of whatever ISS like craft (aka Clarke
Station) shouldn't be 1% of what our present day ISS is demanding. Our
moon's interactive L1 is also a rather nifty do-everything location
where the most tonnage per given fly-by-rocket effort is going to offer
the utmost accomplishment for those mostly robotic deployments, that can
be effectively remote flown, all the way down to the cm resolution, from
most any MicroSoft flight simulator equipped laptop PC or MAC.

My notion of the final 1e9 m3 CM/ISS abode is that of a 256e6 tonne
installation that's fully tethered to the moon, with as much as 99.9% of
that mass (including whatever tethers) as being derived from the moon
itself. Even though that sounds horrifically big, massive and a touch
complex, as such it certainly doesn't have to start out all that big and
massive or complex. Too bad there's only room for one such LSE-CM/ISS,
of which China is most likely going to own and operate this on our
behalf (free of charge? somehow I don't think so).

Do you folks speak a little Chinese, or at least some Mandarin worthy
slang?
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

If going for other planets, as such we could really use our moon's L1.
In fact, if going for our moon it's rather nifty if not essential for
having the mission command platform as coasting safely and efficiently
within this ME-L1 pocket.

0) Our moon's L1 isn't a cheap date, nor is it not complex. You'll need
more than a good slide rule or pocket calculator if planning upon
utilizing this nifty interactive space that's so nearby. In other
words, all morons and/or the dumb and dumber sorts of snookered fools
need not apply.

1) Anything deployed at our moon's L1 starts off small, and it grows to
suit.

2) From then on. it only gets as big and/or as complex as you'd like it
to get.

3) Because of what this LSE-CM/ISS represents, it's not going to happen
overnight.

My previously suggested 1e9 m3 CM/ISS abode that's capable of becoming
worth 256e6 tonnes is not an all or nothing sort of super Clarke Station
on steroids. For starters, it's simply quite a bit larger, it's placed
a wee bit further towards Earth, as well as it's multi-tethered directly
to the moon, and there are a few interactive elements involved. The
massive hull or shell of this CM/ISS may or may not have to spin, as
there are artificial gravity alternatives that would function from
within.

Besides, I'm absolutely certain that China will know exactly what to do.
So, why are so many of you folks getting yourselves so gosh darn huffy
about all of this?

Just because you don't have a masters degree in Chinese Mandarin doesn't
mean that we're out of luck. That's because being smarter than us, as
such they'll learn our language (as many already have) in order to
accommodate their less fortunate clients, such as us.

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications...aryland01b.pdf
This fancy enough "Clarke Station" document, that's rather interesting
but otherwise seriously outdated, not to mention way under-shielded
unless incorporating 8+ meters of water plus having established an
artificial magnetosphere, or perhaps 16+ meters of h2o if w/o
magnetosphere (all because it's parked within 60,000 km of our
physically dark and otherwise highly reactive moon that's providing
gamma and hard-X-rays), is simply downright wussy about sharing the
positive science and habitat/depot considerations for utilizing the
moon's L1. In fact, there's hardly a mention of the tremendous L1
benefits to humanity, much less as to space exploration or the daunting
task of salvaging our environment, and it's still not having squat to do
with developing, exploiting or otherwise terraforming the moon itself.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Most folks are still not being allowed to fully appreciate our moon's
L1. Of course, most Americans are still pretty much mainstream
dumbfounded and/or having been snookered about a great many such
important things in this highly infomercial skewed life, as we've been
allowed to know of. Perhaps those more intelligent members in support
of the China National Space Administration/CNSA are as such less
snookered than we're giving them credit for.

Basically, the average free-gravity-zone of this moon L1 is supposedly
r33.5~r34 away from the moon and otherwise merely r51 from Earth
(unfortunately there's still no hard-scientific and thus independently
replicated proof of such actually being the case of those specific
numbers), that's worthy of obtaining micro if not nano and even pico
gravity, although nearly any +/- adjustment in the net gravity can be
accommodated and rather efficiently interactively sustained.

Within this interactive moon L1 pocket (+/- wherever it has to be) there
should be as little as 1% the atoms/cm3 and of the required velocity is
roughly 9 fold less than LEO (those factors alone represent a rather
huge reduction in orbital friction, and thereby greatly minimizing
station-keeping energy demands). There's also no pesky gauntlet of Van
Allen belt radiation or SAA like nasty pocket of magnetosphere stored
radiation. It's also nearly always sunny as well as having either
earthshine and/or moonshine at your disposal, and of that moonshine so
happens to include a great deal of useful secondary/recoil photons in
the IR/FIR spectrum, plus offering loads of gamma and hard-X-rays
because there's so little mass between L1 and the highly reactive naked
surface of the physically dark and cosmic morgue that's represented by
our moon.

The moon's L1 is not technically a problem for most robotics, however
our frail DNA will demand a great amount of shielding that's similar to
8 meters of water, and for any long term (multi year) human involvement
demanding 16 meters of water unless an artificial magnetosphere can be
sustained. There's also the pesky matter of having to survive various
meteors of potentially lethal flak that isn't the least bit moderated in
velocity nor being gravity diverted.

This fancy enough "Clarke Station" document that's nicely revised and
certainly rather interesting but otherwise seriously outdated,
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications...aryland01b.pdf
not to mention way under-shielded unless incorporating 8+ meters of
water plus having somehow established an artificial magnetosphere, or
perhaps incorporating 16+ meters of h2o if w/o magnetosphere (shielding
that's necessary because it's parked within 60,000 km from our
physically dark and otherwise highly reactive moon that's continually
providing such a not so DNA friendly TBI worth of gamma and
hard-X-rays), is simply a downright deficient document about sharing the
positive science and constructive habitat/depot considerations for
utilizing the moon's L1. In fact, there's hardly any mention of the
tremendous L1 benefits to humanity, much less as to space exploration or
the daunting task of salvaging our mascon warmed environment, and it's
still not having squat to do with any primary task of actually
developing, exploiting or otherwise terraforming the moon itself.

On the other hand, whereas the CM/ISS portion of the LSE which I've
proposed offers 50t/m2 of outter shell or hull shielding for
accommodating the 1e9 m3 interior, thereby multiple decades if not an
entire lifetime can be afforded, as to safely accommodating our frail
DNA. That may seem like a rather great amount of tonnage deployment,
though eventually 99.9% is derived from the moon itself. Of course,
don't mind anything that I have to suggest, whereas you can keep
thinking as small and/or as insignificant as you'd like. However, our
having remained as LEO/terrestrial sequestered isn't going to help us
explore, pillage and rape the other planets and of their moons, not to
mention the mining and/or possible terraforming potential of digging
into our very own global warming moon that's chuck full of nifty and
rare elements.

I guess what's needed for this topic is an open mindset that isn't
afraid of it's own shadow, that isn't afraid of making a few honest
mistakes nor demonstrating that perhaps we're not exactly the smartest
nor the most entitled species of DNA in this universe. (sorry about
that)
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Our Taboo/Nondisclosure Moon

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.c...b30b85de221840

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/so...smart&p=1/1566
"Paul Mc" wrote in message
ups.com
A subject worthy of discussion. Has Arthur C expressed an opinion about
it?

I obviously have to agree with "Paul Mc", but what's your honest give or
take?

This is not a Clarke Station, although it's entirely similar in having
utilized the moon's L1 gravity-well pocket. However, instead of having
to interactively drift and subsequently reaction thrust all over the
place, the LSE-CM/ISS is nicely tethered to the moon, and it's otherwise
pulled upon and thereby better aligned by the dipole element which
reaches it's termination science pod/platform/depot to within 4r (or of
whatever's appropriate) of mother Earth.

BTW; who is this "Arthur C"? (other than the 89 year old fart of Arthur
C. Clarke himself)
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:2a3f1d693cea6125dc30fc81efc3ee21.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Though technically doable, and merely a wee bit extra special DNA
lethal, as well as simply hotter than hell, yet there's not hardly if
any constructive words on behalf of this argument, not even for a fully
robotic MEL1 alternative.

It must have been something a touch mainstream boat-rocking that I'd
said about our physically dark and otherwise downright nasty as all
get-out moon, that's simply not at all guano island like, much less
Xenon lamp spectrum illuminated.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:2a3f1d693cea6125dc30fc81efc3ee21.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Relocating ISS to MEL1 is actually a seriously bad idea. However,
moving it to VL2 seems doable, if not becoming a wee bit too cold.

Besides our moon being terribly hot and seriously nasty by day,
accomplishing the cosmic dark and dusty surface of our somewhat salty
moon will most likely have to wait until after WW-III (the energy war to
end all such energy wars).

Instead of our eventually walking on our moon, perhaps accomplishing
Venus L2 even before our moon's L1 may become the next best affordable
thing to having safe zero-g sex in space (at least VL2 is POOF doable,
although the to/from commute is still a real DNA killer). However, for
the moment we seem to be running ourselves out of talent and resources,
not to mention the necessary loot. Therefore I'm ruling out a Venus
surface trek or even that of a composite rigid airship expedition
that'll never set a human hot-foot upon that geothermally active deck of
20+ j/m2.

I'm also back into thinking faith-based science can become a very good
thing, as a common club/cult like binder of moral intentions and
motivation as based upon the remorse of our past that hasn't always gone
according to plan, and otherwise for accomplishing the greater good on
behalf of humanity and that of salvaging our badly failing environment.
Earth is supposedly a complex community of critically interrelated life
like nowhere other that we know of, yet special interest group after
group has been into doing all that each can muster, in order to take
from others while making the future survival of such others/outsiders as
difficult and/or as spendy as can be accomplished. Unfortunately
Osama/Usama didn't exactly take kindly to such notions of
Islamic/Muslims paying the ultimate price over and over, while the less
than faith-based world of greed, arrogance and bigotry around them was
continually living a better quality of life at the ongoing demise of so
many others.

Unfortunately, there's nothing all that simple about all of this, except
to understand that it takes at least two to tango, doesn't it. The
question of the almighty day is; How many ideological faith-based wars
are you folks willing to accept and/or allow to transpire over such
perpetrated disinformation and outright lies?

Born-again liars seldom if ever tell on one another, do they. Just look
at what the Jews did on behalf of getting and/or allowing Jesus Christ
(one of their own kind) or any other trouble makers to being put on a
stick, or especially at what a Catholic Pope did to most all of those
nice Cathars, and then each holy group proceeded to lie their born-again
infomercial spewing and otherwise remorseless butts off as though they
had the likes of our resident born-again LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) at the
helm.

As per topic/author stalking usual, it's the status quo of "send in the
clowns" of spooks/moles and MIB damage control borgs, or simply
utilizing the sorts of the snookered and thus easily dumbfounded fools
like yourself doing their level best at trying to keep those silly
perpetrated cold-war lids on tight, and of otherwise protecting that
fleet of their good ship USS LOLLIPOPs from sinking into their own
cesspools of NASA's infomercial crapolla.

Of course the Russian/USSR space-race and impressive moon efforts were
essentially into doing the very same to their own kind, and if anything
it's currently more so into snookering as much of their kind for all
they're worth, and then some. It's pretty much what absolute *******s
of a kind do best, isn't it?

In spite of all their infomercial spewing gauntlets of mainstream status
quo flak, I think we've been rather nicely snookered (some of us to
death and/or into the poor-house) by those having "the right stuff", and
taken to the cleaners by that of our mutually perpetrated cold-war(s)
that has cost us precious decades of having badly diverted our best
talents, having way over-spent our limited resources and obviously over
the decades having taken trillions upon trillions of hard earned
dollars, that has now turned its focus into a bloody global energy
domination fiasco, plus yet another round of a rather nasty global
inflation that's currently in the task of our taking Muslim oil. At
least that's what I think.

Unlike what you've been told, I'm not the least bit anti-space or much
less anti-moon, it's just that we simply do not need to walk upon the
physically dark and nasty moon (at least not in person), just establish
and hold onto the moon's L1 zone or gravity nullification pocket is way
more than good enough, that is unless you don't mind China or perhaps
Russia having that sweet spot all to themselves, and that's pretty much
what I and anyone with so much as half a village idiot brain should
think.

By way of my best interpretation, there was in fact no such moon
landings in the manner suggested by our NASA/Apollo or of those USSR
fiascos, whereas that silly "moontruth" movie was obviously a good
enough spoof on behalf of folks just like yourself, although it further
demonstrates that such impressive infomercial alternatives were in fact
doable, as were many other photographic examples of what at the time was
equally hocus-pocus MI6/NSA business as per cold-war cloak and dagger
usual. As based upon the regular laws of physics and of the best
available science that's replicated, there's actually 1000% better proof
positive that we hadn't walked on that physically dark and nasty moon of
ours, and it's pretty much of the very same ongoing reasons why it's
going to take us another spendy decade if ever before anyone of our kind
actually walks on that earthshine illuminated moon for a few minutes
(possibly a few hours worth) before reaching their career TBI dosage
limits.

Besides accomplishing the moon itself, too bad that EML1/MEL1 (moon's
L1) is still so gosh darn taboo or need-to-know, if not entirely
nondisclosure rated. Those specific hard numbers are simply as illusive
as were all of those Muslim WMD.

EML1 Considerations / by: Rand Simberg

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/sc...ma ilgate.org

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...5d992607bb0431

Oddly, it's still by far the most payload efficient parking orbit in
town, always in view of Earth, always in view of our side of the moon,
nearly always in the sun, plus getting loads of extra IR/FIR energy off
the moon, as well as taking on the full secondary share or gauntlet of
lunar gamma and hard-X-rays that have got to be good for something
besides terminating our frail DNA.

L1 is even close enough that an Apache Point 3.5 meter class of
instrument with an extra 10X projection lens and the 1.5 micron CCD
could easily pull in Apollo details of their original surface
expeditions by way of those various robotic impact deployments, although
it would also put the likes of the Hubble/SST to shame by a good 100
fold improved resolution at nearly twice the light gathering potential,
and there's certainly no image stacking problems of getting the
PhotoShop composite image resolution of our earthshine illuminated moon
down to well below 1 meter (similar to what KECK can manage if they
masked off 99% of each primary mirror).

Remember that in L1 there's almost no limitation as to establishing the
ultimate focal length of that secondary mirror, whereas it could just as
easily become a full km if not 1000 km, or perhaps as much as going for
the moon itself at 58,000 km seems entirely doable (there could be a
south pole, north pole and the east/west horizon placements of such
robotic/interactive secondary mirrors).

L1 as the VLA portion of an SAR image receiving via terrestrial radar
transmitters is of course out of this silly world impressive, not that
it couldn't easily accommodate the entire SAR do-everything of something
10 fold or larger than our shuttle bay SIR-C/X-SAR configured
alternative, that which from LEO pulled in those impressive 1.5 meter
raw image resolutions of Earth, and even that 1994 accomplishment was
obviously as of better than a decade ago.

Perhaps soon enough China will accomplish their initial place-holding
version of my LSE-CM/ISS, thereby control most all of the moon's L1 and
damn near everything related, including the physically dark and salty
moon itself that supposedly has all of that nifty He3 that's so fusion
invaluable, plus offering viable access to a cosmic morgue worth of
other nifty and rare elements and most likely having a few of those
weird ET spores to spare.

The following topic has become chuck full of nifty ideas and more than a
few notions for utilizing our moon's L1 (though I've got lots more to
say about utilizing L1 than they do). Too bad that it's still so
taboo/nondisclosure rated, with little mention of myself and I believe
nothing of any Clarke Station, other than via my contributions that are
excluded and/or in banishment mode because I tend to ask too many of
those pesky questions, and I otherwise impose too much of the truth and
nothing but the truth, along with my fair share of deductive common
sense and a touch of remorse on behalf of benefiting the lower 99.9% of
humanity and perhaps salvaging our otherwise failing environment to
boot.

Location, Location, Location! / by: Space Cadet

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...115186067c3a94
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
news:2a3f1d693cea6125dc30fc81efc3ee21.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Moving our existing ISS off to Venus L2 seems perfectly doable, although
placing ISS at our moon's L1 would likely melt that sucker on the spot.

Venus L2 is actually a bit on the cool side of things, whereas our
moon's L1 (roughly 58,000 km away from the moon) is smoking hot and
otherwise downright nasty most of the time, of which ISS simply isn't
thermally suited nor otherwise sufficiently shielded. The nighttime
season of Venus is also a little geothermally hot to the touch, but it's
not technically too hot to manage, especially since there's unlimited
local energy to burn (sort of speak).

Unfortunately, I see that our warm and fuzzy Mailgate/Usenet spooks have
made the subtopic "Corner Cube Reflectors on the Moon" or most any other
negative NASA subtopic go away. I wonder what the heck there is to
hide, or why Mailgate can't accommodate subtopics as intentional
diversions caused by so many others.

http://groups.google.com/group/talk....1fa0709905d932
Corner Cube Reflectors on the Moon, or simply a butt load of beer cans
dumped onto that physically dark and nasty deck via robotics of whatever
impact deployment isn't proof or any other form of replicated science on
behalf of having walked on that moon. Sorry about that.

Velikovsky/Neocatastrophism Sources (another stealth Mailgate topic)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.o...ec2528569a1d6f
Of course, now Mailgate is entirely blocking most all of their
"Mailgate: Message not available" topics, as though the crapolla of
truth is hitting their really big infomercial damage control fan.

I see that our warm and fuzzy Mailgate/Usenet spooks have made the topic
"Laser off the Moon" vanish into less than thin air, as yet another one
of those "Mailgate: Message not available".

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/sc...oo.co m&p=1/3

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...408b5c2de5160d
In fact, most all of "rec.org.mensa" is becoming rather
anti-topic/author worthy of being taboo/nondisclosure, as in banished
into "Mailgate: Message not available" status.

It seems our our Old Testament thumping faith based scientists are
simply paranoid about damn near everything that rocks their status quo
good ship LOLLIPOP, including their own shadows. At least terraforming
our moon or simply digging into that salty sucker for obtaining a safe
habitat is technically doable from within our own back yard of known
expertise and resources, and best of all, we the badly bleeding
taxpayers can keep a close eye upon where each and every one of our hard
earned dollar is going.

The ongoing notions of utlizing our moon as one of the supposed
"Footsteps to Mars", sorry to say my ass, whereas I'm especially going
naysay postal on this one, especially since we can't seem to mange the
few and affordable steps on behalf of accomplishing our moon's L1, much
less those rather spendy and somewhat lethal steps upon our naked moon.
-

For your continuing entertainment, I've further edited and hopefully
improved upon the following rant as to what I and others should care the
most about:

Here's a little something extra special for Discovery Communications
and/or GOOGLE/NOVA to ponder their pay-per-infomercial spewing way
through. In other words, if I could pay as well as MI/NSA~NASA, they'd
gladly produce whatever as though it was the one and only truth on
Earth.

Instead of our going for the absolutely daunting and unavoidably time
comsuming as well as spendy task of our accomplishing the moon itself,
perhaps instead we or perhaps China should simply go for taking the
moon's L1 because, at least that's entirely doable and extremely
valuable as a space depot and science platform.

As I've often shared this one befo
If we're ever going to walk upon that physically dark and nasty moon of
ours that's via gravity tidal energy and a touch of IR/FIR keeping our
environment as so anti-ice-age extra warm, as such we'll need the
following basics for an earthshine illuminated mission that'll most
likely demand some banked bone marrow and possibly a few spare stem
cells in order to survive the mission gauntlet.

In order to accomplish the moon, and live to tell about it, as such
they'll need a fully mascon mapped moon, plus fully modulated (at least
8 bit computer fly-by-wire driven) set of those fuel consuming reaction
thrusters (besides their modulated rated thrusters, this should only
require butt loads of nifty sensors and a minimum of four extremely fast
rad-hard computers), plus incorporating a few (at least three) powerful
momentum reaction wheels, as well as having sufficient deorbit and
down-range energy reserves, and something a whole lot better off than a
wussy 60:1 ratio of primary rocket/payload that had nearly a 30% inert
GLOW to start off with (that's not even including whatever spare tonnes
of inital ice loading).

Geoffrey A. Landis:
Let me emphasize, the human lander is by far the hardest part of the
Mars mission. A vehicle for getting down to the surface and back up
again is the one piece that we have to develop from scratch.
Everything else is, more or less, stuff we can put together from
pieces that already have been developed.

You folks out there in Usenet's dumbfounded land of snookered fools and
village idiots do realize there's still no such proven fly-by-rocket
lander as pilot rated and certified as crew safe and sane for
accomplishing our extremely nearby moon, not even in R&D prototype
format. However, there's still time to get in on that NASA contest of
demonstrating the first such prototype fly-by-rocket lander.
Unfortunately, thus far every known and what-if trick in the book hasn't
worked out according to plan. Perhaps what they need are a few of those
smart Jewish Third Reich rocket scientists, just like they had to work
with way back in them good old mutually perpetrated cold-war days.

BTW; On behalf of a relatively short mission exposure worth of
defending their frail DNA and especially all of that radiation sensitive
Kodak film could have used a minimum of 50 g/cm2 worth of shielding,
though 100 g/cm2 would have been a whole lot safer for keeping their TBI
mission dosage under 50 rads. Their having a personal cache of banked
bone marrow back on Earth as their plan-B would also have been a damn
wise thing to do, especially since the hundreds of rads per EVA should
have been well past their bone marrow's point of no return.

BTW No.2; Since there's no possible argument as to the DR(dynamic
range) of their Kodak film having easily recorded Venus and our
physically dark moon within the same FOV, therefore in whatever's your
best 3D simulator format, where the heck is Venus as of missions A11,
A14 and A16? (from EVA or from orbit)

What if anything is stopping or in any way diverting the very same solar
and cosmic energy plus whatever's physical flak from collecting upon
and/or penetrating into the moon, as otherwise collects within our
magnetosphere's Van Allen belts?

Honest analogy; Shouldn't the gravity and robust substance of the moon
itself sort of outperform our magnetosphere's ability to collect and
hold onto such nasty solar and cosmic stuff?

In addition to getting directly roasted and otherwise full-spectrum TBI
by the sun and of whatever's cosmic, there's also the secondary IR/FIR
energy that's potentially coming right at you from as many as each of
those surrounding 3.14e8 m2, not to mention each of those square meters
having their fair share of those local gamma and pesky hard-X-rays via
secondary/recoil to share and share alike, and as for yourself in that
wussy moonsuit to deal with.

At any one time it was technically impossible for such lunar surface
EVAs to have not been continually surrounded by a bare minimum of 3.14e6
m2, and of course from such a nearby orbit there's nothing but the
physically dark and TBI dosage nasty moon to look at for as far as the
DNA/RNA frail eye could see from being at 100+ km off the deck, and
that's one hell of a solar/cosmic plus unavoidably secondary/recoil
worth of TBI exposure to deal with, wouldn't you say?
-

NOM: "The level of cosmic radiation on the moon is barely different from
the radiation at the International Space Station. They seem to manage
space walks there OK."

From what I can learn, they/ISS actually do NOT manage very well at all,
whereas ISS EVAs tend to be relatively short and those EVAs still tend
to devour into their 50 rad per mission and subsequently impact upon
their career 500 rad dosage limits real fast, and at that they have to
avoid the SAA-05 contour like the worst known plague. The solar wind
that's extensively diverted by those nifty though lethal Van Allen belts
do accomplish a fairly good job of defending ISS from the otherwise L1
naked trauma of solar and cosmic influx, and besides the ISS itself
doesn't hardly represent significant density or any amount of
secondary/recoil square meters compared to the bare minimum of 3.14e6 m2
that's existing for the moon landing and EVAs, along with easily
receiving as much as 3.14e8 m2 worth of exposure to all that's reactive
and/or radioactive as being entirely possible.

A deployed ISS/(Clarke Station) at our moon's L1 would actually be as
much as 97.6% solar and otherwise nearly 100% cosmic nailed, but instead
our existing ISS is nearly 50% shielded from whatever's solar or cosmic
via Earth and rather nicely protected by a substantial magnetosphere,
whereas because of Earth's thin but extensive enough atmosphere is
hardly the least bit reactive substance like our naked moon that's
covered in heavy meteorite debris and of it's own considerable density
that makes for producing secondary/recoil dosage that apparently isn't
the least bit moderated by way of an atmosphere.

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications...aryland01b.pdf
This fancy enough "Clarke Station" document that's rather interesting
but otherwise a touch outdated, not to mention way under-shielded for
long term habitat unless incorporating 8+ meters of water plus having
somehow established an artificial magnetosphere, or perhaps 16+ meters
of h2o if w/o magnetosphere that's necessary because it's parked within
58,000 km from our physically dark and otherwise highly reactive moon
that's providing the not so DNA friendly TBI(total body irradiation)
dosage worth of gamma and hard-X-rays that are only a touch worse off by
lunar day, is simply a downright deficient document about sharing upon
all the positive science and habitat/depot considerations for others
utilizing the moon's L1/MEL1.

As for any mission command module orbiting our moon from 100 km isn't
exactly playing it DNA/RNA safe, nor more than half the time is it
representing a cool orbit or even all that mascon free of all those
pesky side to side and ups and downs because for its size the moon's
gravity is so irregular (possibly suggesting a badly distorted hallow
core).

There is however a fairly substantial sodium atmosphere that reaches out
past 9r (not to mention the comet like sodium trail of some 900,000 km),
but apparently it's not of sufficient density from 100 km down to the
deck as to significantly moderate the incoming or outgoing trauma of
gamma and hard-X-rays. Therefore, just the secondary IR/FIR has got to
be downright mission pesky to deal with, especially considering how
efficiently our moon reflects the IR and FIR spectrum, and the matter of
fact that it has to get rid of all of whatever it receives, which means
that a good 50% of the solar influx is getting returned to the same
sunny half side of space that a given mission orbiting its command
module has to survive while getting summarily roasted and otherwise TBI
traumatised from both directions, plus a little of whatever's earthshine
and of good old cosmic whatever else to boot.

On behalf of moderating whatever's incoming as well as unavoidably of
secondary/recoil outgoing radiation, what our naked moon environment
needs rather badly is an artificially forced atmosphere of almost any
sort, even if it's mostly co2 and a touch Radon toxic.
-
Brad Guth


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