NASA Finds Life?

NASA'S CASSINI DISCOVERS POTENTIAL LIQUID WATER ON ENCELADUS
Thu Mar 09 2006 11:21:33 ET

What am I missing?

re Enceladus:

Something is nagging at me. What is the source of the pressure
that is pushing the water violantly outwards through these vents?

Water, unlike most other materials, SHRINKS when it melts
and EXPANDS when it freezes -- viz., milk bottles shattered
on the porch of my childhood home in upstate New York.

Geysers are propelled by expanding water as it changes state
from liquid to gas -- STEAM. Then it expands enthusiastically.

On Earth, water melting inside glaciers or permafrost does NOT spew
outwards. Why should it on Enceladus?

Io's volcanoes are sulfer -- when it melts, it expands and creates pressure
to vent outwards. Ditto magma on Earth, I thought.

But water? I'm puzzled by this.

Maybe another liquid, like methane, that behaves more like
sulfur and magma? I just don't know. I'd like to ask.

On 9 Mar 2006 06:09:13 -0800, "Ed Kyle" wrote:

I'm not sure what to make of this.

"http://cfn13.com/StoryHeadline.aspx?id=13873"

cfn13.com is currently off-line for maintenance.
We have a server upgrade underway. We try our best to schedule these
events in the middle of the night and over weekends to maximize
uptime, and we only maintain them during business hours in case of an
emergency. We expect to complete the upgrade before 6:00 AM ET

Please check back with us soon.

Thank you for your patience.


"Big NASA Announcement Today

NASA is planning to make a huge announcement today, about possible life
in our own solar system."

- Ed Kyle
--

Christopher

My guess is that this is in connection with the announcement
that Enceladus may have liquid water very close to its surface.
--
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll

"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...
NASA'S CASSINI DISCOVERS POTENTIAL LIQUID WATER ON ENCELADUS
Thu Mar 09 2006 11:21:33 ET

What am I missing?
snip

If the moon is in a somewhat elliptical orbit, it is continuously being
squeezed and stretched by Saturn's huge gravitational field. That in itself
would generate enough internal heat to keep water just below the surface in
a liquid state. It would also cause that water to squirt out through thinner
crust fissures, like a geyser here on Earth. It would also imply that the
icy crust is not very thick and that the sub-surface ocean is rather deep
and relatively warm, to maintain its liquid state. Volcanic vents on the
ocean floor could also contribute to the heat and would make the moon a
preferred exploratory target for life, much like Jupiter's Europa.

How does HEAT cause WATER to squeeze out? Water shrinks when it melts.



"Hagar" wrote in message
...

"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...
NASA'S CASSINI DISCOVERS POTENTIAL LIQUID WATER ON ENCELADUS
Thu Mar 09 2006 11:21:33 ET

What am I missing?
snip

If the moon is in a somewhat elliptical orbit, it is continuously being
squeezed and stretched by Saturn's huge gravitational field. That in
itself
would generate enough internal heat to keep water just below the surface
in
a liquid state. It would also cause that water to squirt out through
thinner
crust fissures, like a geyser here on Earth. It would also imply that the
icy crust is not very thick and that the sub-surface ocean is rather deep
and relatively warm, to maintain its liquid state. Volcanic vents on the
ocean floor could also contribute to the heat and would make the moon a
preferred exploratory target for life, much like Jupiter's Europa.

Jim Oberg wrote:

How does HEAT cause WATER to squeeze out? Water shrinks when it melts.

The laws of physics are easily broken Jim, just ignore them,

every good neoconservative republican knows that!

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

OK, Jim, one more time:

The elliptical orbit of the moon and its interaction with Saturn's gravity
have an effect similar to "tightening the belt" when in close proximity to
Saturn to "letting it out a few notches" when furthest away from Saturn.
This constant squeezing and stretching (relaxing) creates internal friction,
which creates heat, enough to melt the moon's ice into water to within a few
meters beneath its surface. Heat also creates and maintains a molten core,
which creates thermal vents, but since the entire moon's gets compressed
during the closest approach to Saturn, liquid water is squeezed out through
the cracks in the surface ice at very high pressures, thus appearing like
geysers.
It is the gravitational interaction that causes the water to be ejected, not
its conversion from a frozen to a liquid state.


"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...

How does HEAT cause WATER to squeeze out? Water shrinks when it melts.



"Hagar" wrote in message
...

"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...
NASA'S CASSINI DISCOVERS POTENTIAL LIQUID WATER ON ENCELADUS
Thu Mar 09 2006 11:21:33 ET

What am I missing?
snip

If the moon is in a somewhat elliptical orbit, it is continuously being
squeezed and stretched by Saturn's huge gravitational field. That in
itself
would generate enough internal heat to keep water just below the surface
in
a liquid state. It would also cause that water to squirt out through
thinner
crust fissures, like a geyser here on Earth. It would also imply that
the
icy crust is not very thick and that the sub-surface ocean is rather
deep
and relatively warm, to maintain its liquid state. Volcanic vents on
the
ocean floor could also contribute to the heat and would make the moon a
preferred exploratory target for life, much like Jupiter's Europa.

Ever use a tea pot on a stove?


--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords




"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...

How does HEAT cause WATER to squeeze out? Water shrinks when it melts.



"Hagar" wrote in message
...

"Jim Oberg" wrote in message
...
NASA'S CASSINI DISCOVERS POTENTIAL LIQUID WATER ON ENCELADUS
Thu Mar 09 2006 11:21:33 ET

What am I missing?
snip

If the moon is in a somewhat elliptical orbit, it is continuously being
squeezed and stretched by Saturn's huge gravitational field. That in
itself
would generate enough internal heat to keep water just below the surface
in
a liquid state. It would also cause that water to squirt out through
thinner
crust fissures, like a geyser here on Earth. It would also imply that
the
icy crust is not very thick and that the sub-surface ocean is rather deep
and relatively warm, to maintain its liquid state. Volcanic vents on the
ocean floor could also contribute to the heat and would make the moon a
preferred exploratory target for life, much like Jupiter's Europa.

"Jim Oberg" wrote:

:How does HEAT cause WATER to squeeze out? Water shrinks when it melts.

Then it gets bigger again as it warms in the liquid phase. Plus all
the stuff around it gets bigger and squeezes on it.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Something is nagging at me. What is the source of the pressure
that is pushing the water violantly outwards through these vents?

As far as I could tell from the article
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/cassin...enceladus.html there is an
assumption that there is some gas involved somehow. What the article
says is:

As for the heat source, there are two possibilities: "either
sublimating ice, above or below ground, or underground reservoirs
of boiling liquid erupting through vents in the tiger stripes."
The second option seems to fit the observations best and "the
erupting mixture of vapor and liquid - or, in the case of
Enceladus, vapor, liquid and ice particles - is like a cold
Yellowstone geyser."