MER Rovers disappointment so far..

While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.

I have to say that so far I'm not too impressed with the
science that has come from the Mer rovers. I know
that more science should be forthcoming when the
rovers get on the road; but up to now, its been pretty
bland. Also, we keep being told that once such and
such happens, we'll know alot more.

Another thing is that with 2 rovers on the ground you'd
think NASA could give us a daily briefing but instead
we seem to get less briefings now.

I agree that NASA deserves great applause for getting
2 rovers safely on the ground; but I'm pretty disillusioned
by the very slow pace of the science teams. Maybe they could
stop gloating long enough to tell us something about Mars,
we didnt already know.

The only interesting science is the soil. I stand
to be corrected, but thats my take on this so far.

"Mike Morris" wrote in message

While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.

...

The only interesting science is the soil. I stand
to be corrected, but thats my take on this so far.

Patience, grasshopper. It was stated that about the first month on the
ground was going to be spent essentially in preparation, with science
starting slowly.

Jon

"Mike Morris" wrote
I have to say that so far I'm not too impressed with the
science that has come from the Mer rovers. I know
that more science should be forthcoming when the
rovers get on the road; but up to now, its been pretty
bland. Also, we keep being told that once such and
such happens, we'll know alot more.

I second that. They have this expensive and incredible hardware safely on
the surface of Mars and are afraid to actually use it. Every press
conference is basically a teaser about how good it's gonna be real soon
now--after the engineers get done dicking around with studying ephemeral
motor current spikes and such. Oh, and the scientists can do their science
like the cleanup crew after a parade--like take a look at those airbag
marks, will ya? Cool huh? Incredible even. Study that.

Here's a good test for Opportunity: just drive it to that outcrop for cripe
sakes and test it on something real. CARPE SOL!!!

Look at Spirit for a continuing case in point. They know they have a corrupt
file system on the flash memory, but are so worried about losing the files
because they give the engineers something to chew on for maybe several more
weeks to analyze what happened. So they're gonna try to get a stack trace,
or try to do minor surgery every day to save what they admit are not very
valuable or irreplacable data. Just reformat the ****er and get going! Final
engineering report: it was hosed. OK, move on!

Actually, it's getting slightly better. If Opportunity rolls off on Sunday,
that will be a quicker egress than with Spirit.

"Jon Berndt" wrote in message
...
"Mike Morris" wrote in message

While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.

...

The only interesting science is the soil. I stand
to be corrected, but thats my take on this so far.

Patience, grasshopper. It was stated that about the first month on the
ground was going to be spent essentially in preparation, with science
starting slowly.

I hope you're right. It just seems this is starting to drag on
with promises of great findings, when really there is nothing
new yet.

I hope Im proved wrong :-)

"Julius Kilo" wrote in message
gy.com...

"Mike Morris" wrote
I have to say that so far I'm not too impressed with the
science that has come from the Mer rovers. I know
that more science should be forthcoming when the
rovers get on the road; but up to now, its been pretty
bland. Also, we keep being told that once such and
such happens, we'll know alot more.

I second that. They have this expensive and incredible hardware safely on
the surface of Mars and are afraid to actually use it. Every press
conference is basically a teaser about how good it's gonna be real soon
now--after the engineers get done dicking around with studying ephemeral
motor current spikes and such. Oh, and the scientists can do their science
like the cleanup crew after a parade--like take a look at those airbag
marks, will ya? Cool huh? Incredible even. Study that.

It is odd that there seems to be this competitiveness about priority
in relation to engineering versus science teams. The engineers are
really making a big deal out of minor problems, and the software
glitch with the flash memory is a bit of a self inflicted wound since
it seems to be just about buggy memory allocations. Thesinger
coming our at the beginning of the Spririt problems with this
3 week delay, was pretty hokey. It sounded a bit like people
inventing more work for themselves. Very public sector.


Here's a good test for Opportunity: just drive it to that outcrop for
cripe
sakes and test it on something real. CARPE SOL!!!

Agreed. It will be really stupid if they start running low on power
because they have taken 1 month to get some distance from the
lander. Isnt it better to get over to the rocks before something
else goes wrong and the rover gets starnded.

Look at Spirit for a continuing case in point. They know they have a
corrupt
file system on the flash memory, but are so worried about losing the files
because they give the engineers something to chew on for maybe several
more
weeks to analyze what happened. So they're gonna try to get a stack trace,
or try to do minor surgery every day to save what they admit are not very
valuable or irreplacable data. Just reformat the ****er and get going!
Final
engineering report: it was hosed. OK, move on!

You're right. This sort of pedantic messing around is quite worrying.
We are supposed to be making Mars robotic missions look commonplace,
rather than some sort of flukey success.

For heavens sake, the Viking (soft) landers both were successful with 70s
technology, so in fact; we should be expecting way more from these
MER rovers, and their ability to get going without some sort of
council on whether their is a slight spike on the high gain, or the airbags
arent perfectly positioned.

Actually, it's getting slightly better. If Opportunity rolls off on
Sunday,
that will be a quicker egress than with Spirit.

Well I hope this is the end of the delays and we can start seeing
some good science feedback, instead of a multitude of working
hypothesis whcih doesnt tell us anything we didnt already know.

I dont want to rant too much because I am totally in favour of
space exploration, but I cant help feeling that once again, personal
egos are slowing the pace of science exploration on Mars.

"Mike Morris"

For heavens sake, the Viking (soft) landers both were successful with 70s
technology, so in fact; we should be expecting way more from these

Can anyone relate what the cost of the Viking missions was in today's
dollars? Just curious.

I'll remind you, regarding the Viking missions: do you remember one of the
more prominent bugs that bit them in the initial days of one of their
missions? What's happening on Mars now with the MERs is not unique.

Also, I'd disagree with you about the statement "We are supposed to be
making Mars robotic missions look commonplace". That's never been any part
of the goal with MER.

Jon

Disappointing yes, but in reality, if the rover's travel 1m or 3000m it's
much the same muchness, the terrain isn't any more important really because
it's further away, it could study the rocks right next to the lander just as
much as those 500m away.

Though I agree, it would be nice to see it moving more, and just for the
pace to pick up in general. But I'm just glad they landed for now, just the
fact they managed to send back a panorama of their landing sites already is
a great accomplishment far as I am concerned, imagine if they hadn't made it
like Beagle, you'd still be wondering what those landing sites looked like!
I'm still annoyed the Polar lander buggered up, so these ones are doing
great by comparison.

I think the rovers, generally are doing a great job, any real dissapointment
isn't really related to the mission, which is great, but more to a broader
view of the situation, namely, how come we're still sending rovers instead
of a manned mission etc etc.

Kris
My Energia HLLV page: http://www.k26.com/buran/

"Mike Morris" wrote in message
...

While I am totally onside with the idea of exploring
mars and the rest of our solar system; I am starting
to wonder whether we have been sold a pup with
these MER rovers.

I have to say that so far I'm not too impressed with the
science that has come from the Mer rovers. I know
that more science should be forthcoming when the
rovers get on the road; but up to now, its been pretty
bland. Also, we keep being told that once such and
such happens, we'll know alot more.

Another thing is that with 2 rovers on the ground you'd
think NASA could give us a daily briefing but instead
we seem to get less briefings now.

I agree that NASA deserves great applause for getting
2 rovers safely on the ground; but I'm pretty disillusioned
by the very slow pace of the science teams. Maybe they could
stop gloating long enough to tell us something about Mars,
we didnt already know.

The only interesting science is the soil. I stand
to be corrected, but thats my take on this so far.

"Jon Berndt" wrote in
:

"Mike Morris"

For heavens sake, the Viking (soft) landers both were successful with
70s technology, so in fact; we should be expecting way more from
these

Can anyone relate what the cost of the Viking missions was in today's
dollars? Just curious.

$2.4 billion, or about three times what MER cost.


--
JRF

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check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

Someone someday will also be disappointed in the discovery of a cure for
cancer. Geezus.

"Mike Morris" writes:

council on whether their is a slight spike on the high gain, or the airbags

Their was no council to discuss the weather; there "slight spike" was
actually dozens of spikes almost ten times then nominal value,
according to there chart which they showed at there briefing. ())