Debris found in Southern CA Desert - Anyone know what it might be?

Derek Lyons wrote:

The Vig also had a 'dummy' bomb/ 'live' fuel tank combo that it
carried for day-to-day operations, but IIRC it was not jettisonable.


They found out the hard way that the bomb itself wasn't very
jettisonable... IIRC, during a test one got caught in the aircraft's
slipstream and started following the plane around until it reduced its
speed enough for the bomb/fuel tank assembly to fall clear...it also had
a tendency to slide out the back of the aircraft during catapult launch:
http://www.air-navy.com/a3j-usn.htm like a turd from hell.
The aircraft promptly got changed into a recon machine.

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:
They found out the hard way that the bomb itself wasn't very
jettisonable... IIRC, during a test one got caught in the aircraft's
slipstream and started following the plane around until it reduced its
speed enough for the bomb/fuel tank assembly to fall clear...it also had
a tendency to slide out the back of the aircraft during catapult launch:
http://www.air-navy.com/a3j-usn.htm like a turd from hell.
The aircraft promptly got changed into a recon machine.

The technical problems with the A5 certainly helped it along the path
to being a recon machine, but the surface Navy was already getting out
of the strategic nuke business anyhow. The Vigilante was only one of
many schemes floated about get the Navy into the strategic offensive,
but the sucess and simplicity of Polaris compared to the other (mostly
Rube Goldbergesque, many of dubious safety) systems resulted in them
being abandoned wholesale.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

Derek Lyons wrote:

The technical problems with the A5 certainly helped it along the path
to being a recon machine, but the surface Navy was already getting out
of the strategic nuke business anyhow. The Vigilante was only one of
many schemes floated about get the Navy into the strategic offensive,
but the sucess and simplicity of Polaris compared to the other (mostly
Rube Goldbergesque, many of dubious safety) systems resulted in them
being abandoned wholesale.


Wanna see something strange? I stumbled on this when I was looking for
photos of the Vigilante...you take the bomb and fuel tanks out of the
tubular bomb bay, and stick a third engine in there instead...then you
hang some Super Falcon/Phoenix missiles on it and.... behold! The
Vigilante interceptor!: http://www.vectorsite.net/ava56.jpg
The aerodynamics of those added intakes look kinda iffy at high angles
of attack.
No reply from the website about the crash remains yet.

Pat

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
The Vig also had a 'dummy' bomb/ 'live' fuel tank combo that it
carried for day-to-day operations, but IIRC it was not jettisonable...

They found out the hard way that the bomb itself wasn't very
jettisonable...
The aircraft promptly got changed into a recon machine.

If memory serves, the bomb-ejection system did *eventually* work, although
only after a lot of development grief. The switch to the recon role was
because of a more global change: the USN strategic-weapon-delivery
mission was transferred from the carrier-based bombers to the missile
subs. The carrier-based bombers had to find other roles, and by and large
they weren't well-suited to the attack role, so they ended up doing things
like recon and EW.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

Henry Spencer wrote:

If memory serves, the bomb-ejection system did *eventually* work, although
only after a lot of development grief.


I'm still trying to imagine a catapult launch where there is the roar of
the motors coming up to full power; the whoosh of the catapult; the
aircraft leaping into the air...as a trail of sparks starts behind it;
the blast of fire dispersing the steam; and the sight of the nuclear
bomb sitting in a sea of burning jet fuel on the carrier deck...
The carrier's crew would find this disturbing.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
The carrier's crew would find this disturbing.

Yes, they might be quite put out by it, possibly even vexed.

In article ,
says...

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
The carrier's crew would find this disturbing.

Yes, they might be quite put out by it, possibly even vexed.

Peeved, at the very least...

Aw, who are we kidding? You're talking about a *massive* problem for
the ship's Laundry Officer... after several hundred guys all **** in
their pants simultaneously.

Doug

In article ,
Pat Flannery writes:


Derek Lyons wrote:

The Vig also had a 'dummy' bomb/ 'live' fuel tank combo that it
carried for day-to-day operations, but IIRC it was not jettisonable.


They found out the hard way that the bomb itself wasn't very
jettisonable... IIRC, during a test one got caught in the aircraft's
slipstream and started following the plane around until it reduced its
speed enough for the bomb/fuel tank assembly to fall clear...it also had
a tendency to slide out the back of the aircraft during catapult launch:
http://www.air-navy.com/a3j-usn.htm like a turd from hell.
The aircraft promptly got changed into a recon machine.

The separation problems werne't quite that bad - the bomb/tank train
in the Vigi's bay also came with a hefty ejector cartridge to kick it
well clear. It wasn't the greatest idea that they ever came up
with, and,while it was (little known) nominally retained on the RA-5C,
it wasn't used. (Although the tank package on the RA-5 could and did
sometimes stay behind after catapult launches. What's not too well
known is that the RAs retained the ability to carry bombs on the
external pylons. In this case, eliminating the bomber's bomb bay
doubled its bombload. They could also carry conventional bombs, (1
MER/inboard pylon) but there were better ways to deliver a dozen 500#
bombs than an RA-5. The linear bay did allow one other interestin
use, which was tested & put away - they had a 3-tank setup with a
hosereel and drogue in the aft position, turning the Vigi into the
World's Fastest Tanker. In fact, they conducted at least 1 supersonic
refuelling. (To another Vigi, natch.)

It was a Way Cool Machine - bigger than an F-4, but able to outrun and
out-stay it on the same power. It had a supersonic ejection system
that worked pretty well. (Of the "Roll the Crewman Into a Knot, and
Hope the Seat Doesn't Hurt Him Too Bad" variety). It's only problem
was, to quote a family friend who didn't quite dodge all the SA-2s
fired at him one morning in 1967, that it "Jinked Mejestically."

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

Peter Stickney wrote:

It was a Way Cool Machine - bigger than an F-4, but able to outrun and
out-stay it on the same power. It had a supersonic ejection system
that worked pretty well. (Of the "Roll the Crewman Into a Knot, and
Hope the Seat Doesn't Hurt Him Too Bad" variety). It's only problem
was, to quote a family friend who didn't quite dodge all the SA-2s
fired at him one morning in 1967, that it "Jinked Mejestically."


There's speculation that its design was the inspiration for the Soviet
Union's MiG-25 "Foxbat"; and the two aircraft do resemble each other in
general layout and intake design... now that I found that three-engined
Vigilante interceptor variant design study, the idea seems more plausible.


Pat