MSNBC: "Space station mission opposed"

wrote:

Once again, it's clear that NASA can't buy a clue:


Not even remotely.

"However, in what some medical personnel described this week as a chilling
echo of the decision-making leading up to the Columbia space shuttle
disaster, arguments in favor of scrubbing the latest crew replacement
mission and temporarily shuttering the space station were overruled by
managers concerned with keeping the facility occupied. "

Fascinating how you swallow 'warnings' without the slightest bit of
skepticism.

Are these objections real? Or are the docs crying wolf to cover their
asses in the off chance that something does go wrong?

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
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Corrections, comments, and additions should be
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MSNBC: "Space station mission opposed"

Lets hope we arent back here discussing the warning signs that were missed
before the station and crew were lost. Just like Challenger and Columbia ISS
could be next on the list.

By the way SMELL is useless in a stinky envirmonment. Eventually you adjust and
cant detect off odors.

What NASA flight directors decided to keep it manned?

We can put together a nasa wall of shame.

Mullroy, Ham, Dittmore, and the newbies

When Jim Oberg is alamed I am freaking out!

Hallerb wrote:

MSNBC: "Space station mission opposed"

Lets hope we arent back here discussing the warning signs that were missed
before the station and crew were lost. Just like Challenger and Columbia
ISS could be next on the list.

By the way SMELL is useless in a stinky envirmonment. Eventually you
adjust and cant detect off odors.

What NASA flight directors decided to keep it manned?


Smell fatigues very quickly, but the space station is not that small a
volume. If one module stinks every time they enter it, there is a problem
in that module. But the fatigue goes away when they are in a different
module.

Also, isn't it an "international" space station. If the Russian's threshold
of pain is higher than the US threshold of pain, what happens? The US
determines it's unsafe, while the Russians don't have a problem. Does the
US have some sort of veto power to tell the Russians they can't man the
space station because we think it's unsafe? What if the Russians choose to
go anyway, even over the objections raised by the US that it is unsafe? How
about the Spanish guy? What if his government decides it's also safe?

Now the US would be in a position of taking our astronaut off the flight,
while the Russians have an empty seat to fill. Not a pretty picture.

The threshold of pain must be somewhere inbetween.

Craig Fink

Smell fatigues very quickly, but the space station is not that small a
volume. If one module stinks every time they enter it, there is a problem

The dont keep the doors shut between modules. My understanding is the air flows
between modules all the time for safety/

So the bad module isnt helpful

Smell fatigues very quickly, but the space station is not that small a
volume. If one module stinks every time they enter it, there is a problem
in that module. But the fatigue goes away when they are in a different
module.


The thing to do about stink is to let the air out of the module and it won't
stink anymore. Astronauts will be in spacesuits of course.

Tom

On 25 Oct 2003 17:33:09 GMT, (TKalbfus) wrote:

Smell fatigues very quickly, but the space station is not that small a
volume. If one module stinks every time they enter it, there is a problem
in that module. But the fatigue goes away when they are in a different
module.


The thing to do about stink is to let the air out of the module and it won't
stink anymore. Astronauts will be in spacesuits of course.

And if the stink returns when the module is re-pressurised?



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

In sci.space.policy Christopher wrote:
On 25 Oct 2003 17:33:09 GMT, (TKalbfus) wrote:

Smell fatigues very quickly, but the space station is not that small a
volume. If one module stinks every time they enter it, there is a problem
in that module. But the fatigue goes away when they are in a different
module.


The thing to do about stink is to let the air out of the module and it won't
stink anymore. Astronauts will be in spacesuits of course.

And if the stink returns when the module is re-pressurised?

Well, that depends on if the suits stink worse than the station.

(Hallerb) wrote:
By the way SMELL is useless in a stinky envirmonment. Eventually you adjust and
cant detect off odors.

By the way, you are, as usual, not only wrong, but aggressively
clueless. When you live in a 'stinky' environment, but come from a
'clean' environment, you do lose sensitivity to the 'normal stinks',
but you do *not* lose the ability to discern off odors.

When the cooks started cracking 'overage' eggs to find the good ones
among the bad... We smelled 'em quite plain.

A little whiff of smoke? We certainly smelled that, and *everyone*
who smelled it starting looking for the source.

The smell of diesel over in the port outboard of berthing? As strong
as ever on day 60 of patrol.

The wonderful smell of sanitary tanks venting inboard? That ripe one
the guy next to you just ripped? Yep, smelled them too.

etc... etc... etc...

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

Derek Lyons wrote:
A little whiff of smoke? We certainly smelled that, and *everyone*
who smelled it starting looking for the source.

However, a cook in a bakery will stop noticing the smell of fresh bread
because it is constantly there. However, a new smell in his bakery will be noticed.

The danger with using noses on the ISS is with a very slowly rising smell.
Crewmembers may adapt and never really notice it.

However, because of the different modules, especially the different russian
and american segments, it is unlikely that a smell would appear evenly
instantly. Crew members would notice the smell being stronger in one area as
they move around.

However, this does not solve the potential problem of a leak occuring during
sleeping periods. The station "guards" in the ground won't be able to "smell"
those and awaken the crew. So in the morning, when they wake up, the crew may
have to deal with a more serious problem than if the leak had been detected
right away.

On the other hand, leaks are probably going to be noticed on the ground due to
whatever machine generating the leak not performing nominally. Consider the
lete of detailed information they get about the station, a level high enough
that they decided something was wrong with the motor that turns the solar
arrays just by looking at its power consumption.

Hallerb wrote:
By the way SMELL is useless in a stinky envirmonment. Eventually you adjust and
cant detect off odors.

No. You get used to odours that are continuous. But if some new odour pops up,
you notice it.

And I am not worried about the survival of the crew. Unlike Columbia, the crew
can always bail and return to earth safely if they feel the stayion has become
unsafe. They can always put on masks, or even EVA suits and move to the area
generating the gas/smell/particles and try to shut off the deffective
component or fix the problem.


And if you have an explosion of ammonia or whatever other toxic gas that
wouldn't give the crew any time to react, then no amount of monitoring
equipment would have saved the day. The monitoring equipment is there to
detect slow events which usually give the crew plenty of time to react.

Also, the station has been broken in already and there is already plenty of
knowledge on how it performs, what commonly breaks, what doesn't. The mistake
in the CO2 filters regenerating unit in Quest probably won't happen again.