Anyone know what these sensors are?

http://largesense.com/products/8x10-...al-back-ls911/

On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 3:42:04 PM UTC-5, RichA wrote:
http://largesense.com/products/8x10-...al-back-ls911/

It's time to dust off those old lenses that have been sitting around in your junk drawer.

http://largesense.com/info/lenses-used-testing/

On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 1:42:04 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
http://largesense.com/products/8x10-...al-back-ls911/

Given that there's no CFA - color filter array - then the advantage of not being a
scanning back, for which one is paying $106,000 expected price - is somewhat
negated by having to take three exposures. So there's still a problem for subjects
that move.

John Savard

On Monday, 11 February 2019 14:33:30 UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 1:42:04 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
http://largesense.com/products/8x10-...al-back-ls911/

Given that there's no CFA - color filter array - then the advantage of not being a
scanning back, for which one is paying $106,000 expected price - is somewhat
negated by having to take three exposures. So there's still a problem for subjects
that move.

John Savard

I think they make a colour version, maybe not. I was more interested in who made the sensors, a bit more on the tech behind them.

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 12:10:17 AM UTC-7, RichA wrote:

I think they make a colour version, maybe not. I was more interested in who made the sensors, a bit more on the tech behind them.

The fact that it is only a 12 megapixel sensor - a number of pixels that is
present in conventional sensors - would seem to suggest a different technology,
but the high price tag suggests a giant CMOS or CCD sensor.

Ah, this site

https://photorumors.com/2018/04/17/l...e-shot-camera/

claims it's a CMOS sensor.

So I suppose the innovative tech is to have multiple pixels in each large pixel
so that there is fault tolerance. This is, after all, a wafer-scale sensor.

John Savard

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:54:23 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 12:10:17 AM UTC-7, RichA wrote:

I think they make a colour version, maybe not. I was more interested in who made the sensors, a bit more on the tech behind them.

The fact that it is only a 12 megapixel sensor - a number of pixels that is
present in conventional sensors - would seem to suggest a different technology,
but the high price tag suggests a giant CMOS or CCD sensor.

Ah, this site

https://photorumors.com/2018/04/17/l...e-shot-camera/

claims it's a CMOS sensor.

So I suppose the innovative tech is to have multiple pixels in each large pixel
so that there is fault tolerance. This is, after all, a wafer-scale sensor.

Maybe, but I'll bet they are single 75 um pixels. On the whole, I'd
say this product is pretty much a gimmick for people with too much
money. Some of the claims are just nonsense (3D like feel from a large
sensor). Mostly, there's just no obvious advantage to such a large
sensor with such large pixels. It provides no better resolution than
any good DSLR (worse, in fact). Large format lenses are expensive, and
designed to have much better optical resolution than the large pixels
allow for, so you lose much of the advantage, but still pay the price.
Big pixels can provide large dynamic range, but this device doesn't
seem to have better range than modern DSLRs (they claim 16-bit, but
I'll bet the actual S/N is still in the 12-14 bit range).

On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 09:55:10 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:54:23 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 12:10:17 AM UTC-7, RichA wrote:

I think they make a colour version, maybe not. I was more interested in who made the sensors, a bit more on the tech behind them.

The fact that it is only a 12 megapixel sensor - a number of pixels that is
present in conventional sensors - would seem to suggest a different technology,
but the high price tag suggests a giant CMOS or CCD sensor.

Ah, this site

https://photorumors.com/2018/04/17/l...e-shot-camera/

claims it's a CMOS sensor.

So I suppose the innovative tech is to have multiple pixels in each large pixel
so that there is fault tolerance. This is, after all, a wafer-scale sensor.

Maybe, but I'll bet they are single 75 um pixels. On the whole, I'd
say this product is pretty much a gimmick for people with too much
money. Some of the claims are just nonsense (3D like feel from a large
sensor). Mostly, there's just no obvious advantage to such a large
sensor with such large pixels. It provides no better resolution than
any good DSLR (worse, in fact). Large format lenses are expensive, and
designed to have much better optical resolution than the large pixels
allow for, so you lose much of the advantage, but still pay the price.
Big pixels can provide large dynamic range, but this device doesn't
seem to have better range than modern DSLRs (they claim 16-bit, but
I'll bet the actual S/N is still in the 12-14 bit range).

Theory goes back to film, less enlargement equals higher quality. In fact, one trick is doing mosaics with a longer lens and stitching them. That's for resolution. BUt I wonder what the low-light performance would be like with 75um pixels?

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 7:25:24 PM UTC-7, RichA wrote:
BUt I wonder what the low-light performance would be like with 75um pixels?

Probably pretty good. In fact, that could even account for the apparently wild claim of a "3D effect" - with realistic shadow detail, the moulding, the shape of objects would be more apparent.

John Savard

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 6:25:24 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 09:55:10 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:54:23 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 12:10:17 AM UTC-7, RichA wrote:

I think they make a colour version, maybe not. I was more interested in who made the sensors, a bit more on the tech behind them.

The fact that it is only a 12 megapixel sensor - a number of pixels that is
present in conventional sensors - would seem to suggest a different technology,
but the high price tag suggests a giant CMOS or CCD sensor.

Ah, this site

https://photorumors.com/2018/04/17/l...e-shot-camera/

claims it's a CMOS sensor.

So I suppose the innovative tech is to have multiple pixels in each large pixel
so that there is fault tolerance. This is, after all, a wafer-scale sensor.

Maybe, but I'll bet they are single 75 um pixels. On the whole, I'd
say this product is pretty much a gimmick for people with too much
money. Some of the claims are just nonsense (3D like feel from a large
sensor). Mostly, there's just no obvious advantage to such a large
sensor with such large pixels. It provides no better resolution than
any good DSLR (worse, in fact). Large format lenses are expensive, and
designed to have much better optical resolution than the large pixels
allow for, so you lose much of the advantage, but still pay the price.
Big pixels can provide large dynamic range, but this device doesn't
seem to have better range than modern DSLRs (they claim 16-bit, but
I'll bet the actual S/N is still in the 12-14 bit range).

Theory goes back to film, less enlargement equals higher quality. In fact, one trick is doing mosaics with a longer lens and stitching them. That's for resolution. BUt I wonder what the low-light performance would be like with 75um pixels?

Probably very good. The large pixels means more light per pixel - meaning a higher ISO rating.

It might be great for astronomy pictures. But the price, to me, makes it of zero interest for any application. And it is still only 12 Mps.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:25:20 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

Theory goes back to film, less enlargement equals higher quality.

Yes, but even the best film has very low resolution compared with
modern electronic sensors. In essence, film as large "pixels", so you
need to use a larger frame in order to get a high "pixel count". This
sensor, however, has an inherently low pixel count. It cannot produce
a very high resolution image, which was the intent with large format
film cameras.

BUt I wonder what the low-light performance would be like with 75um pixels?

Low light performance comes down to how many photons you collect
(which is determined by aperture), and to S/N issues. Most modern
sensors already have high quantum efficiencies, meaning they record
most of the photons that hit them- there's not much room for
improvement there. And sensors have steadily reducing read noise
levels. So the most important thing just comes down to collecting more
photons, and a large sensor is useful for that. (It's also useful for
collecting more photons before it overflows, although that's less true
for CMOS devices than for CCDs. More photons means more dynamic range.
But as previously noted, this device doesn't seem to have much
different dynamic range than existing smaller sensors.)

Still can't really figure much a use case for this device.