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On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. |
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On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 at 8:17:44 AM UTC, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. To be fair to him, this is what the late 'Androcles' drew attention to but in a world without attribution, at least he tried. What a waste of mental energy but then again, theorists and their followers don't seem to mind chasing each other around in circles. |
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On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 09:17:39 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. In one second the surface of the sphere will have moved outward by one second, placing everything in the Universe one second later. |
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On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 07:52:37 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 09:17:39 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. In one second the surface of the sphere will have moved outward by one second, placing everything in the Universe one second later. As you probably know from relativity time isn't an absolute quantity. If we regard time as just a coordinate (with light speed as the scale factor to the space coordinates) then this "surface of the sphere" will fill up the interior as well as the exterior of the sphe go anywhere anytime and the "surface of the sphere" will be there! |
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On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 8:46:30 AM UTC, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 07:52:37 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 09:17:39 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. In one second the surface of the sphere will have moved outward by one second, placing everything in the Universe one second later. As you probably know from relativity time isn't an absolute quantity. The evolution of timekeeping to represent 'time', at least among mathematicians, is one of those stories which is hard to beat. The 24 hour system with its equable hours, minutes and seconds is an outrigger of the calendar framework and the system of references and planetary cycles which make that system possible. "Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their more accurate deducing of the celestial motions...The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Principia It happens that people who themselves are so convinced by a story they inherited that Sir Isaac's description just bounces off them in order to support the exotic late 19th century science fiction 'The Time Machine' novel and its formal academic version in the early 20th century. The Equation of Time represents two surface rotations to the Sun, the constant daily rotation responsible for the 24 hour cycle and the uneven surface rotation as a function of orbital motion responsible for the Polar day/night cycle and where these rotations combine we get the seasons. No point in throwing good information after bad and especially among those who can't recognise the botched description of the Equation of Time(keeping) as absolute/relative time. |
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 09:46:25 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 07:52:37 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 09:17:39 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. In one second the surface of the sphere will have moved outward by one second, placing everything in the Universe one second later. As you probably know from relativity time isn't an absolute quantity. If we regard time as just a coordinate (with light speed as the scale factor to the space coordinates) then this "surface of the sphere" will fill up the interior as well as the exterior of the sphe go anywhere anytime and the "surface of the sphere" will be there! Every point in spacetime is defined by a single coordinate, (x,y,z,t). Relativity doesn't change that. There is only one surface; the interior (that is, space in the past) isn't a surface. |
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Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 09:46:25 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 07:52:37 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 09:17:39 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. In one second the surface of the sphere will have moved outward by one second, placing everything in the Universe one second later. As you probably know from relativity time isn't an absolute quantity. If we regard time as just a coordinate (with light speed as the scale factor to the space coordinates) then this "surface of the sphere" will fill up the interior as well as the exterior of the sphe go anywhere anytime and the "surface of the sphere" will be there! Every point in spacetime is defined by a single coordinate, (x,y,z,t). Relativity doesn't change that. There is only one surface; the interior (that is, space in the past) isn't a surface. But anything you see us already in the past so you are always seeing the interior. The photons you see are in the present but the object from which they originated is in the past. |
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On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:31:45 -0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote: Every point in spacetime is defined by a single coordinate, (x,y,z,t). Relativity doesn't change that. There is only one surface; the interior (that is, space in the past) isn't a surface. But anything you see us already in the past so you are always seeing the interior. The photons you see are in the present but the object from which they originated is in the past. Right. We see nothing in the past. We see the _effects_ of events in the past. The observation represents an event on the surface of the Universe (i.e. now) that was caused by an event below the surface (i.e. in the past). |
#9
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For those who care about astronomy and their normal use of perspectives, nothing more current than watching Mercury run an actual loop of the central Sun -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVCiPp67vI&t=195s https://www.theplanetstoday.com/solar_system_video_1996 Theorists don't do interpretation and whether it is a mathematician thing or not, they have been wrecking havoc for centuries - "For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are always seen direct,..." Newton Unlike the illusory loops of the slower moving planets, we see the faster moving Venus and Mercury in their smaller circuits run around the Sun with their direct/retrograde motions representing the back and forth motion in front and behind the central Sun. If people want to waste their time and ignore what is in front of them then so be it but genuine astronomical interpretation is within reach of any adult who knows what they are looking at. |
#10
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 08:35:26 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote: On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 09:46:25 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 07:52:37 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Tue, 01 Jan 2019 09:17:39 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 09:28:28 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: But we must be inside the 4D sphere or else we would have no future. No, we are on the surface. The surface is "now". The center is t=0 (actually, it is (0,0,0,0), the location of the Big Bang). The past is inside the sphere, where it is not accessible to us. Which means that in one second we will be almost one lunar distance outside this sphere? Since outside the sphere is where the future is. In one second the surface of the sphere will have moved outward by one second, placing everything in the Universe one second later. As you probably know from relativity time isn't an absolute quantity. If we regard time as just a coordinate (with light speed as the scale factor to the space coordinates) then this "surface of the sphere" will fill up the interior as well as the exterior of the sphe go anywhere anytime and the "surface of the sphere" will be there! Every point in spacetime is defined by a single coordinate, (x,y,z,t). Relativity doesn't change that. There is only one surface; the interior (that is, space in the past) isn't a surface. There must be one surface for every t. Unless one claims that every t except the present "does not exist". |
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