Mars Spherules with stems grow in the ground like potatoes

Chosp wrote:
| Salted water can have a wide range of states, depending on the
| properties of salts. Try to find data on Lake Victoria Antarctida.

hmmm

| BUT! For the fast-runners I warn immediately that the lake there is
| abiotic by the most (under what I presently know).

Wait, it was my understanding that early all *terrestrial* glaciers have
an interface of liquid water just under them, don't they? They trickle
out from below, and are the sources for creeks that trickle out from
under the 'feet' of these glaciers and feed our creeks and streams.
Like the glaciers around Mt. Ranier in Washington and Mt. Hood in
Oregon, they are all in their own ways the sources to the creeks and
streams that surround them. In short, it sure isn't surface runoff that
gives rise to the creeks and streams adjacent to them. Although that
helps in the summer time. The trickle is not going to be that visible
above ground, but if you dig a couple feet down from where the glaciers
seem to begin, you are going to find water. Look at Ptarmigan Glacier
on the south flank of Mt. St. Helens, for instance. The edge of the
glacier can be measured in feet, not just yards, and there you go,
dry ground in one place, nice beautiful snowy ice in another place,
and that is in summer, only feet apart. But 'liquid' water is available
a few feet down. It may not be a gurgling creek that is "picture-perfect"
but it is water, and the nature of the rocky soil in that area guarantees
that it becomes liquid in the cracks that are predictable enough in that
area.

"Eric Chomko" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Pedro Rosa ) wrote:

snip

: Thermodynamics you know? Now where liquid water may exist in Mars?
: Pure liquid water NOWHERE as the pressure is always too low for
: condensation and the only phases that may exist there are frozen like
: rock or gaseous.

Gaseous? Exactly how? Explain using Martian pressure and temperatures how
water vapor exists there. You are eluding to clouds here.

I'll take that by vapor you mean condensed water or ice particles in the
air, like a cloud?
I believe the atmosphere holds 0,03% H2O-gas (don't whip me on details) The
maximum contents of H2O-gas is dependant on temperature (dewpoint
temperature). If H2O-gas is evaporated/sublimed during day when temperature
and dewpoint is 'high', it follows that it may condense at night to ice-dew
or to ice-crystals in a clouds.

Carsten

Carsten Troelsgaard wrote:
| : Thermodynamics you know? Now where liquid water may exist in Mars?
| : Pure liquid water NOWHERE as the pressure is always too low for
| : condensation and the only phases that may exist there are frozen like
| : rock or gaseous.
|
| Gaseous? Exactly how? Explain using Martian pressure and temperatures how
| water vapor exists there. You are eluding to clouds here.
|
|I'll take that by vapor you mean condensed water or ice particles in the
|air, like a cloud?

Well, I am curious about that also. Can't the ice particles stick to
the dust in the area, causing a snow of sorts - even if it is rather
sparse - to fall on the ground?

|I believe the atmosphere holds 0,03% H2O-gas (don't whip me on details)
|The maximum contents of H2O-gas is dependant on temperature (dewpoint
|temperature). If H2O-gas is evaporated/sublimed during day when
|temperature and dewpoint is 'high', it follows that it may condense
|to night to ice-dew or to ice-crystals in a clouds.

Doesn't the CO2 regularly sink down at night, seeing as how the
temperature tends to drop? Every night, there ought to be *some*
kind of condensation of H20, CO2, and dust particles, what there
are of them.

"Matthew Montchalin" skrev i en meddelelse
...

snip

|I'll take that by vapor you mean condensed water or ice particles in the
|air, like a cloud?

Well, I am curious about that also. Can't the ice particles stick to
the dust in the area, causing a snow of sorts - even if it is rather
sparse - to fall on the ground?

I have seen pictures of rime, but wasn't that from another mission?

|I believe the atmosphere holds 0,03% H2O-gas (don't whip me on details)
|The maximum contents of H2O-gas is dependant on temperature (dewpoint
|temperature). If H2O-gas is evaporated/sublimed during day when
|temperature and dewpoint is 'high', it follows that it may condense
|to night to ice-dew or to ice-crystals in a clouds.

Doesn't the CO2 regularly sink down at night, seeing as how the
temperature tends to drop? Every night, there ought to be *some*
kind of condensation of H20, CO2, and dust particles, what there
are of them.

I don't know weather the condensation of CO2 occur outside of the poles, but
the low night-temperature could still make a journal shift of pressure and
windpattern.

Carsten

In article ,
says...
Carsten Troelsgaard wrote:

snip

|I believe the atmosphere holds 0,03% H2O-gas (don't whip me on details)
|The maximum contents of H2O-gas is dependant on temperature (dewpoint
|temperature). If H2O-gas is evaporated/sublimed during day when
|temperature and dewpoint is 'high', it follows that it may condense
|to night to ice-dew or to ice-crystals in a clouds.

Doesn't the CO2 regularly sink down at night, seeing as how the
temperature tends to drop? Every night, there ought to be *some*
kind of condensation of H20, CO2, and dust particles, what there
are of them.

I think you're painting the whole planet with too broad a brush.
Temperatures only get cold enough for CO2 condensation at the poles, and
even then, during summer at the poles, it doesn't even get cold enough
for CO2 condensation.

And yes, it does snow on Mars. Regular water-ice snow. You see water-
ice snow building up around the poles as winter sets in before you see
CO2 ice condensing out (as well you should, since the temp for CO2
condensation is a good deal colder than for H2O condensation). I'm
pretty sure that there are differences in the mechanisms by which
snowflakes form on Mars and Earth, but the overall process is, I'm sure,
very similar.

Hell, it's even been suggested that the "recent" water-flow gullies that
have been observed on some crater and canyon walls is, in fact, the
result of snowdrifts melting and staying liquid just long enough to form
the gullies.

Yes, the air pressure on Mars *does* change at a greater percentage of
total air pressure due to nightly cooling than does Earth's, but you
seem to have an impression that the Martian air nearly freezes out
overnight. And that's totally not the case. It's still a relatively
small percentage of Mars' CO2 that's frozen as ice at any given time,
and the range in air pressure -- between 6.8 mb and 8.1 mb -- observed
by the Viking and Pathfinder landers doesn't affect the rest of the
climate all that much. (Mostly, what affects the climate is when the
CO2 evaporates as a pole moves towards summer and creates strong winds,
triggering dust storms.) Hell, the difference in pressure between your
feet and your head as you stand on Mars is nearly as much as the diurnal
shift. And remember, most of the climate effects are determined between
the ground and about 1 km in the air -- where the air pressure remains
pretty constant.

Oh, and one other thing -- Mars also has clouds. Regular water-ice
clouds, just like the cirrus clouds on Earth. There are several good
images of clouds from the Pathfinder landing site. Cloud cover is just
less widespread on any given day on Mars than on Earth.

Doug

Matthew Montchalin wrote in message ...
Carsten Troelsgaard wrote:
| : Thermodynamics you know? Now where liquid water may exist in Mars?
| : Pure liquid water NOWHERE as the pressure is always too low for
| : condensation and the only phases that may exist there are frozen like
| : rock or gaseous.
|
| Gaseous? Exactly how? Explain using Martian pressure and temperatures how
| water vapor exists there. You are eluding to clouds here.
|
|I'll take that by vapor you mean condensed water or ice particles in the
|air, like a cloud?

Well, I am curious about that also. Can't the ice particles stick to
the dust in the area, causing a snow of sorts - even if it is rather
sparse - to fall on the ground?
Interesting idea. Dust storms seem to rise quite high but still I
don't know how much. But I suspect that ice would sublimate before
reaching the ground. But the poles. What may happen in the poles? Does
anyone have anything about possible maechanisms of precipitation in
the poles?


|I believe the atmosphere holds 0,03% H2O-gas (don't whip me on details)
|The maximum contents of H2O-gas is dependant on temperature (dewpoint
|temperature). If H2O-gas is evaporated/sublimed during day when
|temperature and dewpoint is 'high', it follows that it may condense
|to night to ice-dew or to ice-crystals in a clouds.

Doesn't the CO2 regularly sink down at night, seeing as how the
temperature tends to drop? Every night, there ought to be *some*
kind of condensation of H20, CO2, and dust particles, what there
are of them.
Eeeeeee there wwas that tiny layer of ice crystals at Viking. But it
seems that it forms very near to the ground (something that some
scientists developed to that theory of micronic liquid water drops
just on the rock surface). Frankly I don't have seen any literature on
this matter for the last years. Anything?

"Pedro Rosa" skrev i en meddelelse
om...

snip

Note that some "stable" conditions, like one commonly pointed here,
that temperature "should be above 0", are in fact illusions. The
system should be thermodynamically stable. Our Earth "0" is not Mars
"0" and it is silly to ignore the water phases as Mars, in any
possible model, has always an atmosphere lower than Earth. Our Earthly
0 is french-fries for a possible biota there. Well, not exactly
"french-fries" but I hope you understand the metaphora.

Yes, the temperature alone doesn't say much. A free body of water should
guarantee a prober combination though

Note that a lower thermodynamical system does not automatically bring
us to a "biologic maybe" in Mars.

Don't you think that water definitely gives a 'biologic maybe'?

Chlorine and other elements possess
some different activity but still remain active and dangerous. The
fact that JPL remarked chlorine and bromine is not only a geological
fact but also a signal that Mars may be sterile.

Clorine and bromine may be registrered as elements but will be present as
salts - If you are not founded in geology, then try a google on evaporites.

It's time to hit the sack -
Carsten

"Carsten Troelsgaard" wrote in message ...
"Pedro Rosa" skrev i en meddelelse
om...

Note that a lower thermodynamical system does not automatically bring
us to a "biologic maybe" in Mars.

Don't you think that water definitely gives a 'biologic maybe'?
Absolutely not. Eeee where's that crazy lake... People say it is the
most crazy thing near to a possible Mars past... It's ACID LIKE
HELL...


Chlorine and other elements possess
some different activity but still remain active and dangerous. The
fact that JPL remarked chlorine and bromine is not only a geological
fact but also a signal that Mars may be sterile.

Clorine and bromine may be registrered as elements but will be present as
salts - If you are not founded in geology, then try a google on evaporites.
Depends on the radicals they live with... Damn where's THAT Lake...

OH! Here it is!
http://www.mountain.ru/eng/adventure...a/index1.shtml


It's time to hit the sack -
Carsten

"Matthew Montchalin" wrote in message
...
Chosp wrote:
| Salted water can have a wide range of states, depending on the
| properties of salts. Try to find data on Lake Victoria Antarctida.

I didn't write that.
Get your attributions right.