Europe, Russia discuss 'orbital shipyard' plans

On Wed, 20 May 2009 21:59:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:


:Or the Moon - nearer to Earth; no atmosphere at all (compared to Mars) and
:half the gravity of Mars. Also the Moon's closer to the Sun, so solar
:energy can be used for smelting materials and industrial processes.
:
:The two-week nights are the killer.
:

Start at the poles.

For the mass of the tower (to keep the arrays in sunlight) and the
power lines to the nearest convenient base site, you'd be pretty close
to a small reactor.

Brian

On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:49:08 -0500, Brian Thorn wrote:

On Wed, 20 May 2009 21:59:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:


:Or the Moon - nearer to Earth; no atmosphere at all (compared to Mars)
and :half the gravity of Mars. Also the Moon's closer to the Sun, so
solar :energy can be used for smelting materials and industrial
processes. :
:The two-week nights are the killer.
:

Start at the poles.

For the mass of the tower (to keep the arrays in sunlight) and the power
lines to the nearest convenient base site, you'd be pretty close to a
small reactor.

I am waiting for someone to suggest putting the greenhouse in a hole at
the pole, surrounded by movable mirrors that can direct the light into
the hole on and off on a 24 hour cycle with a summer like duty cycle.

Marvin the Martian wrote:

:On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:49:08 -0500, Brian Thorn wrote:
:
: On Wed, 20 May 2009 21:59:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall
: wrote:
:
:
::Or the Moon - nearer to Earth; no atmosphere at all (compared to Mars)
:and :half the gravity of Mars. Also the Moon's closer to the Sun, so
:solar :energy can be used for smelting materials and industrial
:processes. :
::The two-week nights are the killer.
::
:
:Start at the poles.
:
: For the mass of the tower (to keep the arrays in sunlight) and the power
: lines to the nearest convenient base site, you'd be pretty close to a
: small reactor.
:
:I am waiting for someone to suggest putting the greenhouse in a hole at
:the pole, surrounded by movable mirrors that can direct the light into
:the hole on and off on a 24 hour cycle with a summer like duty cycle.

Who's talking about a greenhouse?

It's now obvious why you spend so much time talking to the Guthball...

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...

It's now obvious why you spend so much time talking to the Guthball...


What's scary is Guth's responses to him have actually sounded reasonable and
accurate.

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
.. .
:
: It's now obvious why you spend so much time talking to the Guthball...
:
:
:What's scary is Guth's responses to him have actually sounded reasonable and
:accurate.
:

And when Guth is the sensible side of a discussion, you know the other
side is *really* loony.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
.. .
:
: It's now obvious why you spend so much time talking to the Guthball...
:
:
:What's scary is Guth's responses to him have actually sounded reasonable
and
:accurate.
:

And when Guth is the sensible side of a discussion, you know the other
side is *really* loony.


Exactly!


--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:25:51 -0700, Fred J. McCall wrote:

Marvin the Martian wrote:

:On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:49:08 -0500, Brian Thorn wrote: :
: On Wed, 20 May 2009 21:59:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall
: wrote:
:
:
::Or the Moon - nearer to Earth; no atmosphere at all (compared to
Mars) :and :half the gravity of Mars. Also the Moon's closer to the
Sun, so :solar :energy can be used for smelting materials and
industrial :processes. :
::The two-week nights are the killer. ::
:
:Start at the poles.
:
: For the mass of the tower (to keep the arrays in sunlight) and the
power : lines to the nearest convenient base site, you'd be pretty
close to a : small reactor.
:
:I am waiting for someone to suggest putting the greenhouse in a hole at
:the pole, surrounded by movable mirrors that can direct the light into
:the hole on and off on a 24 hour cycle with a summer like duty cycle.

Who's talking about a greenhouse?

It's now obvious why you spend so much time talking to the Guthball...

In my original post where I pointed out that the 24 hour day allowed a
greenhouse for growing plants.

You then misconstrued that into lunar solar energy. Similar, but not the
same.

Yet, the same problem with your polar solar collectors apply; you can't
have them in each other's shadow, and the moon rotates, so you can't put
them in a line far from the poles. As someone said, you'd need tall
towers.

Marvin the Martian wrote:

:On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:25:51 -0700, Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: Marvin the Martian wrote:
:
: :On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:49:08 -0500, Brian Thorn wrote: :
: : On Wed, 20 May 2009 21:59:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall
: : wrote:
: :
: :
: ::Or the Moon - nearer to Earth; no atmosphere at all (compared to
: Mars) :and :half the gravity of Mars. Also the Moon's closer to the
: Sun, so :solar :energy can be used for smelting materials and
: industrial :processes. :
: ::The two-week nights are the killer. ::
: :
: :Start at the poles.
: :
: : For the mass of the tower (to keep the arrays in sunlight) and the
: power : lines to the nearest convenient base site, you'd be pretty
: close to a : small reactor.
: :
: :I am waiting for someone to suggest putting the greenhouse in a hole at
: :the pole, surrounded by movable mirrors that can direct the light into
: :the hole on and off on a 24 hour cycle with a summer like duty cycle.
:
: Who's talking about a greenhouse?
:
: It's now obvious why you spend so much time talking to the Guthball...
:
:In my original post where I pointed out that the 24 hour day allowed a
:greenhouse for growing plants.
:

It's not all about you. You see anything about greenhouses in what's
quoted? Yeah, I thought not.

:
:You then misconstrued that into lunar solar energy. Similar, but not the
:same.
:
:Yet, the same problem with your polar solar collectors apply; you can't
:have them in each other's shadow, and the moon rotates, so you can't put
:them in a line far from the poles. As someone said, you'd need tall
:towers.
:

You're still not paying attention. Go back and read what I said
again. No 'tall towers' required.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

Fred ol buddy (and to your sockpuppet as well) ...

You play a good useful idiot, I have to give you that. You ask all the
obvious questions that only an idiot would ask, which gives me a the
opportunity to expand and explain the benefits of Mars over the moon, and
why the moon is a poor destination that we really don't even want to go.

You pepper your questions and wrong statements with insults, which make
you look all the worse when I show where you got it wrong.

However, in this last round of replies, you were reduced to hateful
spittle and gibbering ad hominems. No questions, no facts for me to
correct. That makes you a useless idiot.

Please return to being a useful idiot, or I shall have to killfile your
sociopathic ass. No one should have to suffer you for no good reason.
Quite frankly, you're a sorry example of a human being, but you did fill
a need for awhile.

Marvin the Martian wrote:
:
:Fred ol buddy (and to your sockpuppet as well) ...
:

Hallucinating again, Marvin? I leave the 'sockpuppet' game to folks
like you.

:
:You play a good useful idiot, I have to give you that. You ask all the
bvious questions that only an idiot would ask, which gives me a the
pportunity to expand and explain the benefits of Mars over the moon, and
:why the moon is a poor destination that we really don't even want to go.
:

Except you never ANSWER the questions, which makes your claims look
pretty sad. Unfortunately for your thesis, people don't just read
what you quote. They get to see the original articles everyone else
posts that show you don't know what you're talking about.

:
:You pepper your questions and wrong statements with insults, which make
:you look all the worse when I show where you got it wrong.
:

I'll book my ski trip to Hell the day that happens.

:
:However, in this last round of replies, you were reduced to hateful
:spittle and gibbering ad hominems. No questions, no facts for me to
:correct. That makes you a useless idiot.
:
:Please return to being a useful idiot, or I shall have to killfile your
:sociopathic ass. No one should have to suffer you for no good reason.
:Quite frankly, you're a sorry example of a human being, but you did fill
:a need for awhile.
:

Your effort to avoid answering the question about just exactly how you
plan to manage 70%+ of the delta-V from Mars Transfer Orbit to the
ground via aerobraking by trying to start a flamewar is noted.

Your silly remarks about 'building an aero-brake' were amusing, but
I'd expect a 12 year old to know better.

You've become too predictably stupid and boring.

You certainly need to killfile me, so as to keep from seeing all those
holes punched in your 'logic'. Unfortunately for you, YOU killfiling
me doesn't keep everyone else from seeing your silliness being
derided.

In the meantime, you keep flapping your arms and chanting
'aerobraking'. It won't get you to Mars, but it is amusing to anyone
who actually understands the difficulties of getting there.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine