second scope - which one? Orion ShortTube 4.5 EQ or SkyQuest XT 4.5

Hello all,

My first scope was a Meade Polaris 114EQ-D purchased at Service
Merchandise a few years back. I want to know purchase a second scope
and even though I would really like to get a 6" Dob, the finances only
allow for the $199 models.
The choices are the Orion ShortTube 4.5 EQ or the Orion SkyQuest XT
4.5. WHich is the better one of these two choices? I like the EZ
Finder scope on the Shorttube but I know that is not a clear reason to
choose one or the other. Does anyone have experience with either of
these models or another brand that would be better to replace my
Meade.

The Meade Polaris gave me great views as a begineer and still are
impressive. If I get either one of these scope, will I have the same
scope that I have now (upgraded the eyepieces to Orion Explorer II's)
or will either one of these blow me away compared to the Meade
Polaris?

I'm just afraid of getting a different version of the same scope and I
know that the 6" dob would be a better scope than these, but yet
again, need to stay at $199.

Any recommendations or comments on these would be appreciated.
Again, any other company scopes that are better than what I have now
for the same price ($199) would be helpful.

Thanks,
Jim Fedina

I'm just afraid of getting a different version of the same scope and I
know that the 6" dob would be a better scope than these, but yet
again, need to stay at $199.

You can have a 6", or even a 8", dob for $199 if you build it yourself, and
are creative/shop around for parts. Building isn't an option for everyone,
but if you have access to woodworking tools, are reasonably handy, and have
the time then you can build a better scope than you can buy.

Dennis

"Dennis Woos" wrote in message
...
I'm just afraid of getting a different version of the same scope and I
know that the 6" dob would be a better scope than these, but yet
again, need to stay at $199.

You can have a 6", or even a 8", dob for $199 if you build it yourself,
and
are creative/shop around for parts. Building isn't an option for
everyone,
but if you have access to woodworking tools, are reasonably handy, and
have
the time then you can build a better scope than you can buy.

Dennis


could you list some example suppliers? all the ones i've found are more
expensive than buying an assembled unit.

thanks.
jon

could you list some example suppliers? all the ones i've found are more
expensive than buying an assembled unit.


In order to build inexpensively you must be creative and patient. If you
buy new, off-the-shelf parts then you will spend more than buying a whole
scope. Primary mirrors, secondary mirrors, and focusers are regularly found
on Astromart, at star party swap tables, from astro club friends, dealer's
used/surplus stock, etc. You can and will find these items if you have the
time and patience. Eveything else (e.g. plywood, teflon, formica, sonotube)
is widely available.

You can grind, polish and figure your own mirror. My 12 year old son has
made a wonderful 5" f/11.4. However, this takes a lot of time, patience and
determination, and not everyone has as much of these as he does.

There is nothing terribly wrong with the commercial Asian dobs, and there is
a lot to be said for these scopes. However, the mounts don't work as well
as good homemade ones, and many folks find themselves spending time and
money to improve them. Also, building your own scope means that you will
know it inside and out, which is necessary when it comes time to
collimate/clean/upgrade.

Dennis

There is nothing terribly wrong with the commercial Asian dobs, and there is
a lot to be said for these scopes. However, the mounts don't work as well
as good homemade ones, and many folks find themselves spending time and
money to improve them.

Actually in my experience the mounts work OK especially when new. After a
while, I have found things need some help. At some point some Ebony Star and
Teflon will straighten things out.

On a good night, just fooling around with barlows and double stars I have had
my 10 inch F5 up over 1000X. Not so easy but doable... Takes a half decent
mount to do that... and it was stock..

Also, building your own scope means that you will
know it inside and out, which is necessary when it comes time to
collimate/clean/upgrade.

I think one pretty much ends up knowing the scope inside and out whether its a
commercial scope or a home built.

These days its pretty hard to beat a commercial DOB price wise with a
homebuilt, its even pretty hard to beat a new scope with a used scope.

jon

"Dennis Woos" wrote in message
...
could you list some example suppliers? all the ones i've found are more
expensive than buying an assembled unit.


In order to build inexpensively you must be creative and patient. If you
buy new, off-the-shelf parts then you will spend more than buying a whole
scope. Primary mirrors, secondary mirrors, and focusers are regularly
found
on Astromart, at star party swap tables, from astro club friends, dealer's
used/surplus stock, etc. You can and will find these items if you have
the
time and patience. Eveything else (e.g. plywood, teflon, formica,
sonotube)
is widely available.


Dennis


Hi Dennis,
perhaps i should have been more specific. could you please show me a sample
spec list of parts by dealer to build a 6" for less than $200, 8" for less
than $300? for this example, ignore plywood, teflon and formica. just
include primary, secondary, focuser, and finder. I really would like to
build/assemble my own scope of Orion quality or better, but who are these
dealers with used/surplus stock that can make building cheaper than buying?

peace,
jon

Hi Dennis,
perhaps i should have been more specific. could you please show me a
sample
spec list of parts by dealer to build a 6" for less than $200, 8" for less
than $300? for this example, ignore plywood, teflon and formica. just
include primary, secondary, focuser, and finder. I really would like to
build/assemble my own scope of Orion quality or better, but who are these
dealers with used/surplus stock that can make building cheaper than
buying?

peace,
jon



As I said, you can't just order off-the-shelf new components and expect to
save money. You have to seek out deals, and be patient. However, let me
give you three real-life examples from our scope building experiences.

6" f/8 reflector. The primary mirror, mirror cell, secondary, and spider
were $100 from Bill Vorce at Telescope Warehouse. The focuser was around
$60, new in kit form from JMI. We flexed this spherical mirror (saving the
mirror cell for another project), following the instructions given in Alan
Adler's Sky&Tel November, 2000 article. This is a wonderful scope.

10" f/5.7 reflector. The primary mirror was made by one of the most
accomplished atmers in our club, and tests at least 1/10 wave, blah blah
blah. A guy won it at a club raffle, and because he didn't want to build a
scope he traded it to us for a $100 eyepiece. We picked up a Nova
EnduroBright 1.83" secondary for $60 on Astromart, and a used JMI DX2
focuser for $100. We plan on building everything else, including mirror
cell and secondary holder/spider. We haven't built this scope yet, as we
already have a 10" reflector (homemade mirror) and so are not in a big
hurry. Also, we would like this to be our first truss scope, and so are on
the lookout for good deals on truss components.

6" f/6 maksutov-newtonian. Optics (primary, corrector, and secondary) $170
from Markus Ludes at NEAF. These optics were pulled from a commercial
mak-newt because of a slight coating defect (line/ridge) on the corrector.
Russian crayford focuser was $45 from Astromart, and phenolic tube was maybe
$30?, again from Astromart. This is a very nice scope for both
low-power/wide-field (approaching 3 degrees) and high-power/planetary. The
flexed 6" above does a better job on the planets, but this scope is very
good.

Note that all of the above use optics that we purchased. Making your own
mirror opens up a world of other possibilities.

If you want to build on the cheap, then you have to be patient and wait
for/search out deals. Astromart is great, and we have picked up a lot of
parts there. I would check out Telescope Warehouse, and Gary Hand at
HandsOnOptics for used stuff. Swap tables at star parties are great. If
you want a scope now, then your best option is probably buying an Asian dob.
Jon Isaacs likes the mechanics of his mount ok. I don't like the mounts
very much, but maybe I am too spoiled by Ebony
Star and Teflon.

One final note. We always leave our sonotube clear coated, so that folks
can tell that our scopes are homemade. Telescope making is an important
part of amateur astronomy, and I think it is great for folks to see,and
observe with, homemade instruments. My sons and I like building scopes and
making mirrors, we like the challenge (and the necessity) of spending as
little as we can on building them, and we like showing them off. Maybe
scope building is for you, and maybe it isn't.

Dennis

Jim Fedina wrote:
Hello all,

My first scope was a Meade Polaris 114EQ-D purchased at Service
Merchandise a few years back. I want to know purchase a second
scope and even though I would really like to get a 6" Dob, the
finances only allow for the $199 models. The choices are the
Orion ShortTube 4.5 EQ or the Orion SkyQuest XT 4.5. WHich is the
better one of these two choices? I like the EZ Finder scope on
the Shorttube but I know that is not a clear reason to choose one
or the other. Does anyone have experience with either of these
models or another brand that would be better to replace my Meade.


The Meade Polaris gave me great views as a begineer and still are
impressive. If I get either one of these scope, will I have the
same scope that I have now (upgraded the eyepieces to Orion
Explorer II's) or will either one of these blow me away compared
to the Meade Polaris?

I'm just afraid of getting a different version of the same scope
and I know that the 6" dob would be a better scope than these,
but yet again, need to stay at $199.

Any recommendations or comments on these would be appreciated.
Again, any other company scopes that are better than what I have
now for the same price ($199) would be helpful.

Thanks, Jim Fedina

Hi Jim,

Not being familiar with these particular scopes, I can't say
anything about their relative performance. What I can however see is
that, looking purely at the numbers, they're all pretty similar. I
wouldn't expect either of the two scopes you picked to give you a
significantly better view than what you have, at least not $200
worth, anyway.

As you mentioned, a 6" dob would be a good step up from your current
scope. If you can't stretch to the price of a new one, you might try
picking one up second hand, for example on Astromart
(http://www.astromart.com/). If you're handy, you may want to try
building your own although, from what I've heard, that doesn't
always turn out any cheaper in the end.

Cheers,

Steve

Any recommendations or comments on these would be appreciated.
Again, any other company scopes that are better than what I have now
for the same price ($199) would be helpful.

Thanks,
Jim Fedina


Jim:

The short tube scopes such as the Orion ST 4.5 EQ you are considering have
significant optical limitations due to the built-in barlow/corrector that makes
the short tube possible. (Note: The 130ST does have a barlow/corrector.)

Anyway, heres the good news...

DBA Astronomy has 6 inch Hardin Optical Deep Space Hunter DOBs for $199.
Shipping is $40 anyway in the US which should be comparable to the Orion
Shipping.

jon

Jim Fedina wrote in message
.. .
Hello all,

My first scope was a Meade Polaris 114EQ-D purchased at Service
Merchandise a few years back. I want to know purchase a second scope
and even though I would really like to get a 6" Dob, the finances only
allow for the $199 models.
The choices are the Orion ShortTube 4.5 EQ or the Orion SkyQuest XT
4.5. WHich is the better one of these two choices? I like the EZ
Finder scope on the Shorttube but I know that is not a clear reason to
choose one or the other. Does anyone have experience with either of
these models or another brand that would be better to replace my
Meade.

The Meade Polaris gave me great views as a begineer and still are
impressive. If I get either one of these scope, will I have the same
scope that I have now (upgraded the eyepieces to Orion Explorer II's)
or will either one of these blow me away compared to the Meade
Polaris?

I'm just afraid of getting a different version of the same scope and I
know that the 6" dob would be a better scope than these, but yet
again, need to stay at $199.

Any recommendations or comments on these would be appreciated.
Again, any other company scopes that are better than what I have now
for the same price ($199) would be helpful.

Thanks,
Jim Fedina

check the Hardin Optical 6" from DBA for $199 :
http://www.speednetllc.com/dbaastron...%20November.ht
m

best regards,
matt tudor