Orion ED 80mm--in my hands

Doug Peterson wrote:
I received one at work today, will not be able to do a star test till
later.

It will be interesting to see how "colorful" it is on the Moon or Mars.

Phil

Doug Peterson wrote:
I received one at work today, will not be able to do a star test till
later.

It will be interesting to see how "colorful" it is on the Moon or Mars.

Phil

On 18 Aug 2003 14:35:11 -0700, (Doug
Peterson) wrote:

I doubt Takahashi or AP have anything to worry about.

I bet you will be found mistaken.

Pete

On 18 Aug 2003 14:35:11 -0700, (Doug
Peterson) wrote:

I doubt Takahashi or AP have anything to worry about.

I bet you will be found mistaken.

Pete

"Pete Rasmussen" wrote in message
...
On 18 Aug 2003 14:35:11 -0700, (Doug
Peterson) wrote:

I doubt Takahashi or AP have anything to worry about.

I bet you will be found mistaken.

Pete,

While the Orion ED 80mm may be a nice scope and a good value, it certainly
doesn't seem like the mechanics are close to the same league that AP, Tak,
and TMB are supplying. I didn't notice anything about hand figuring or
interferometric testing either. The market has proven that people are
willing to pay for top quality optics and mechanics. While there certainly
is a market for scopes like the Orion ED 80mm, I do not think it is the same
market the high end companies are selling to. It certainly isn't geared
toward the folks doing imaging either.

Clear skies, Alan

Subject: Orion ED 80mm--in my hands
From: "Alan French"
Date: 8/18/03 6:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


Pete,

While the Orion ED 80mm may be a nice scope and a good value, it certainly
doesn't seem like the mechanics are close to the same league that AP, Tak,
and TMB are supplying. I didn't notice anything about hand figuring or
interferometric testing either. The market has proven that people are
willing to pay for top quality optics and mechanics. While there certainly
is a market for scopes like the Orion ED 80mm, I do not think it is the same
market the high end companies are selling to. It certainly isn't geared
toward the folks doing imaging either.

Clear skies, Alan
*********************
The ED 80mm would make a nice finder, or a go fast solar scope!!!

Chas P.

Subject: Orion ED 80mm--in my hands
From: "Alan French"
Date: 8/18/03 6:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


Pete,

While the Orion ED 80mm may be a nice scope and a good value, it certainly
doesn't seem like the mechanics are close to the same league that AP, Tak,
and TMB are supplying. I didn't notice anything about hand figuring or
interferometric testing either. The market has proven that people are
willing to pay for top quality optics and mechanics. While there certainly
is a market for scopes like the Orion ED 80mm, I do not think it is the same
market the high end companies are selling to. It certainly isn't geared
toward the folks doing imaging either.

Clear skies, Alan
*********************
The ED 80mm would make a nice finder, or a go fast solar scope!!!

Chas P.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:56:59 GMT, "Alan French"
wrote:

Hi Alan,

While the Orion ED 80mm may be a nice scope and a good value, it certainly
doesn't seem like the mechanics are close to the same league that AP, Tak,
and TMB are supplying.

A smooth Crayford is primo. Adjustable cell likely next up? How good
does it have to get to adequately grab the attention and a significant
piece in a market? Not to mention price that definitely grabs buyers
at blinding speed.

I didn't notice anything about hand figuring or
interferometric testing either.

How will that matter that much if the QC risk factor is found reduced
for the new model?

The market has proven that people are
willing to pay for top quality optics and mechanics.

That is exactly what they may be getting with this new scope. Or at
least to a standard that appeals strongly enough to draw out a
significant number of wallets (or purses) from those that could only
look otherwise toward long term expenditure for same. After all, the
fact remains a vast majority of end users do not have excess amounts
to spend for a sweet scope. Hence, the dreams of an APO vs. the
actual move toward justifying one in *budget sensible* terms.

Please don't take me wrong. I'm not in the least attempting to knock
the APO manufacturers saying this stuff. I have the highest of regard
toward them and their fantastic productsI I personally feel bad about
the way things seem to be going but wish to be realistic all the same.
Just look at the achromat scopes, giant binoculars, and to some extent
the cheap eyepiece crazes of recent times. I imagine those are big
shares of the existing market.

While there certainly
is a market for scopes like the Orion ED 80mm, I do not think it is the same
market the high end companies are selling to. It certainly isn't geared
toward the folks doing imaging either.

I wish to politely disagree. Sad to say but my hunch is there will be
a highly visable crunch at some point in time and that this is the
beginning of that change.

Clear skies,

Pete

Hi,
I, for one, wouldn't buy the high priced APOs, but at the Orion
prices, I'd be in, especially if the 102mm and 127mm scopes show up.
There is a threshold in price where a floodgate of customers would
appear. The Orion prices may be the threshold. Among with those
customers may be those that would, otherwise have gone to the
established APO makers.

Al M


Pete Rasmussen wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:56:59 GMT, "Alan French"
wrote:

Hi Alan,

While the Orion ED 80mm may be a nice scope and a good value, it certainly
doesn't seem like the mechanics are close to the same league that AP, Tak,
and TMB are supplying.

A smooth Crayford is primo. Adjustable cell likely next up? How good
does it have to get to adequately grab the attention and a significant
piece in a market? Not to mention price that definitely grabs buyers
at blinding speed.

I didn't notice anything about hand figuring or
interferometric testing either.

How will that matter that much if the QC risk factor is found reduced
for the new model?

The market has proven that people are
willing to pay for top quality optics and mechanics.

That is exactly what they may be getting with this new scope. Or at
least to a standard that appeals strongly enough to draw out a
significant number of wallets (or purses) from those that could only
look otherwise toward long term expenditure for same. After all, the
fact remains a vast majority of end users do not have excess amounts
to spend for a sweet scope. Hence, the dreams of an APO vs. the
actual move toward justifying one in *budget sensible* terms.

Please don't take me wrong. I'm not in the least attempting to knock
the APO manufacturers saying this stuff. I have the highest of regard
toward them and their fantastic productsI I personally feel bad about
the way things seem to be going but wish to be realistic all the same.
Just look at the achromat scopes, giant binoculars, and to some extent
the cheap eyepiece crazes of recent times. I imagine those are big
shares of the existing market.

While there certainly
is a market for scopes like the Orion ED 80mm, I do not think it is the same
market the high end companies are selling to. It certainly isn't geared
toward the folks doing imaging either.

I wish to politely disagree. Sad to say but my hunch is there will be
a highly visable crunch at some point in time and that this is the
beginning of that change.

Clear skies,

Pete

The Orion prices may be the threshold. Among with those
customers may be those that would, otherwise have gone to the
established APO makers.

It's also possible that if these new scopes in larger sizes are quite a bit
cheaper, that the established APO makers will also back off on things like
color correction, spherical correction, number of elements, and mechanical
quality to produce a lightweight product in direct competition. This would
precipitate a race to the bottom, of course. It will be interesting to see what
Synta can do in the 4" to 6" range. Building a color-free 80mm is not anywhere
near as hard as a 6"F8 using only 2 elements.
Personally, I would have no interest in building such a scope because most of
our focus is on multi-use refractors/reflectors for imaging as well as visual,
where a solid heavy duty focuser and tube assembly is really of prime
importance. If you're not familiar with this end of the market, take a look at
the TEC web site and see the focuser that is being built for their refractors
by Starlight Instruments. This focuser costs almost twice as much as the entire
80mm Orion tube assembly, and probably weighs twice as much also. Overkill?
Hardly, for those who know what they need.

Roland Christen