Proof Of Evolution.

Proof Of Evolution.

On Jul 15, 2:36 am, Pastor Dave
wrote to someone:

You have given zero proof of macroevolution
and that is what you need to prove and can't.
Bugs staying bugs does not equal "goo to you".
Nor does falsely labeling me do anything but
prove your true intent. Pastor Dave

Everything that exists is an evolution.

From ideas to creatures to rocks to atoms and
stars: Everything without a single exception.

This is how it is possible to KNOW that any
and all proposals which exclude the evolutionary
process from ANYTHING is self-evident proof
in-and-of-itself that such a proposal is flawed
AND therefore partly or entirely wrong.

Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
physical impossibilities become not only possible
but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!

I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.

The classical historical example is when Galileo
showed his telescope to the Pope. Dogma said that
the heavens were perfect and only the earth was
corrupt... and that because we were God's special
creation the universe circled the earth:

IF but looking upon the truth were enough to
convince one of its rightness, surely the Pope would
be instantly convinced when he looked through his
telescope and saw the pox-faced Moon... and all
sorts of heavenly bodies circling NOT the earth but
Jupiter and other mere planets!

But, the Pope looked, and the Pope saw, and the
Pope had to admit to Galileo that he was seeing what
he was seeing. And then, as we all know, the Pope
showed Galileo the instruments of torture which he
threatened to use on him if he did not publicly say
that it was Dogma that was true and NOT what their
eyes were seeing.

It is a social sickness, a mental illness from which
human beings suffer no end.

But I will persist, none-the-less, and mention in
passing the evolution of pathogens which is killing
a whole lot of atheists and theists alike: By the
simplest laws of Darwinian adaptation of the fittest
pathogens which used to kill us in great numbers
were "conquered" by our discovery of antibiotics.

We literally "flushed" the deadly pathogens from
our system and kept them out by a great flood of
antibiotics... forgetting that evolution and not God
or even all our human efforts is what rules the
universe.

Well, we DID kill most of the deadly pathogens, but
the survivors "adapted" to the new environment of
antibiotics. And now the "evolved" pathogens are
returning the state of affairs to the way it used to
be before our discovery of antibiotics--With an ironic
twist: because the newly evolved pathogens actually
thrive in a body flushed with antibiotics, giving
those antibiotics to people sickened with such
pathogens actually makes things worst than were
they not given any antibiotics at all! (We can still
invent newer antibiotics, of course, but evolution
will ensure that the matter will always rest where it
has always rested: in a never-ending arms-race
between living organisms to see which wins the
reproduction race. I have my money on the worst
bugs, whether that turn out to be they or us.)

Ignore the truth of evolution at your own peril.

In the case of H.I.V. research, there was also a
curious instance in which evolution can be seen
playing a quite dramatic role:

Researchers were able to kill off a large percentage
of the AIDS virus (it doesn't matter which for this
example) with a heavy concoction of drugs, and
patients seemed to thrive. But then they began to
sicken again. Stubborn as people are, and doctors
are people too, they persisted on the regimen of
drugs being administered. With sad consequences.

Then some patients decided, on their own, to stop
taking the cocktail of drugs; and actually improved
without any drugs. But it was not magic, it was
evolution at work:

The original viruses were killed (suppressed) by the
cocktail of drugs... leaving only those viruses best
"adapted" to an environment flushed with the drugs
cocktail to "reproduce." Then, when the drugs were
removed, those viruses "best adapted" to live in an
environment without the drugs "replaced" the newly-
evolved viruses. And we go back to the same old
arms-race that evolution has unleashed upon this
earth since its beginnings, worlds without end.

But don't despair: Life is impossible without death.
It may be a great tragedy to the individual, but
death ensures that every generation of creatures is
the best adapted to survive in whatever existence
this planet offers--Something which is completely
unpredictable: Therefore, were it the case that life
depended on some well-thought-out plan, instead of
on blind evolution, I simply cannot imagine how on
earth life might have avoided some catastrophically
stupid blunder long before now and killed itself...
rather than waiting for something to kill it (as it
now does with simply stunning success). [sic.]

S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3s.sdrodrian.com

All religions are local.
Only science is universal.

sdr wrote:


Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
physical impossibilities become not only possible
but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!

I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.

It's a crying shame! Think of all the fabulously advanced weapon systems
we coulda had by now if it weren't for them damn Godists bunging up the
works. Maybe the big pharmaceuticals could put their heads together and
come up with a strain of antitheistcs and eradicate them.

brian mitchell wrote:
sdr wrote:



Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
physical impossibilities become not only possible
but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!


I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.


It's a crying shame! Think of all the fabulously advanced weapon systems
we coulda had by now if it weren't for them damn Godists bunging up the
works.

We do have amazingly advanced weapons, and the Godists are employing
them enthusiastically against other Godists.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gib Bogle"
Newsgroups: sci.misc,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.edu,sci.math,alt.mat h.recreational
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Proof Of Evolution.


brian mitchell wrote:
sdr wrote:



Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
physical impossibilities become not only possible
but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!


I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.


It's a crying shame! Think of all the fabulously advanced weapon systems
we coulda had by now if it weren't for them damn Godists bunging up the
works.

We do have amazingly advanced weapons, and the Godists are employing them
enthusiastically against other Godists.

You apparrently don't know as much as you think that you do. True
Christians believe in Jesus words, as when He said to Peter, " Put up the
sword Peter, those who live by the sword will die by the sword." And, "My
kingdom is not of this world, therefore my servants do not fight", and "
Love your enemies", telling them to do good to them and pray for them, even
those who despitefully use them.
The trouble is that there are many who say they are Christians, but don't
do what their Lord and Savior tells them do. Jesus spoke of these as those
who build their houses on sand, proclaiming to be Christian but not acting
as Jesus Christ would have them to, and not really taking His words
seriously.
I am saying to to clarify, and to point out the mistake of generalizing.
Sticking a telescope in the corner of your room does not make you an
astronomer, and neither does saying that you are a Christian, but
conveniently finding your way around following Jesus, and actually
believeing what He said, As one of His apostles said, " The weapons of our
warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God, to the pulling down of
strongholds". And he also said that if our enemy is hungry, to feed him, and
if he is thirsty to give him something to drink, that in so doing we will be
putting burning coals upon his head, as in the conviction they will feel. I
won't go to a an astronomer or a physicist, and tell him how wrong he is
about something, if I don't understand what he is really saying in the first
place. Neither will you understand what Christians really believe, until you
have first believed on Him, and want to follow Him and recieve from Him all
that you need.
My point is made. I am not trying to stir up debate, I only want to help
you to see this. I don't condider this any more off topic than the comments
made that provoked me to make my point.
God bless you all with the wisdom and sincerity, and love of the One who
created the Heavens and the Earth, and Man, and saw that it was good.
IN Jesus Name,
Bill.

"Willie Coyote" wrote in message
...
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Gib Bogle"
: Newsgroups:
sci.misc,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.edu,sci.math,alt.mat h.recreational
: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:41 PM
: Subject: Proof Of Evolution.
:
:
: brian mitchell wrote:
: sdr wrote:
:
:
:
: Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
: physical impossibilities become not only possible
: but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!
:
:
: I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
: And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
: obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
: use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
: unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
: that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
: in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
: even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.
:
:
: It's a crying shame! Think of all the fabulously advanced weapon
systems
: we coulda had by now if it weren't for them damn Godists bunging up the
: works.
:
: We do have amazingly advanced weapons, and the Godists are employing
them
: enthusiastically against other Godists.
:
: You apparrently don't know as much as you think that you do. True
: Christians believe in Jesus words, as when He said to Peter, " Put up the
: sword Peter, those who live by the sword will die by the sword." And, "My
: kingdom is not of this world, therefore my servants do not fight", and "
: Love your enemies", telling them to do good to them and pray for them,
even
: those who despitefully use them.
: The trouble is that there are many who say they are Christians, but
don't
: do what their Lord and Savior tells them do. Jesus spoke of these as those
: who build their houses on sand, proclaiming to be Christian but not acting
: as Jesus Christ would have them to, and not really taking His words
: seriously.
: I am saying to to clarify, and to point out the mistake of generalizing.
: Sticking a telescope in the corner of your room does not make you an
: astronomer, and neither does saying that you are a Christian, but
: conveniently finding your way around following Jesus, and actually
: believeing what He said, As one of His apostles said, " The weapons of our
: warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God, to the pulling down of
: strongholds". And he also said that if our enemy is hungry, to feed him,
and
: if he is thirsty to give him something to drink, that in so doing we will
be
: putting burning coals upon his head, as in the conviction they will feel.
I
: won't go to a an astronomer or a physicist, and tell him how wrong he is
: about something, if I don't understand what he is really saying in the
first
: place. Neither will you understand what Christians really believe, until
you
: have first believed on Him, and want to follow Him and recieve from Him
all
: that you need.
: My point is made. I am not trying to stir up debate, I only want to
help
: you to see this. I don't condider this any more off topic than the
comments
: made that provoked me to make my point.
: God bless you all with the wisdom and sincerity, and love of the One who
: created the Heavens and the Earth, and Man, and saw that it was good.
: IN Jesus Name,
: Bill.
:
:
:

Hi Bill,

Let me point out that somewhere in the book - Err~ The book so full of holes
one can refer to it as Holy..

This shiesta or writer of the bible claims it is all knowing and has created
all that is possible to a concise and precise plan, well almost precise
don't you think, if we consider that numerous times man was swiped, wiped
and site'd via the reason mankind was running amok! The Great Flood being
one of those events!

Not to overlook, how this shiesta violated a virgin girl bordering
women-hood just so that Mankind could be saved!.. Not a very bright shiesta!
Or are you still going to defend a gawd who creates a perfect plan, so
perfect that this shiesta knows every decision one must take so that its
perfect plan goes precisely as planned..

Talk about an absolute Moron! This means every one of my decisions must not
waver from what is planned and created for my existence.. I guess I have no
choice other than to continue as per plan! FREE WILL? Yeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhh
Riiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhttttt! Damned if you do and Damned if you don't adhere
to the Plan!

2~Duh~Loo!
--


Pete.
________________________________________
May the Universe return
100 Fold of your output.

In article ,
"Willie Coyote" wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gib Bogle"
Newsgroups: sci.misc,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.edu,sci.math,alt.mat h.recreational
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Proof Of Evolution.


brian mitchell wrote:
sdr wrote:



Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
physical impossibilities become not only possible
but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!


I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.


It's a crying shame! Think of all the fabulously advanced weapon systems
we coulda had by now if it weren't for them damn Godists bunging up the
works.

We do have amazingly advanced weapons, and the Godists are employing them
enthusiastically against other Godists.

You apparrently don't know as much as you think that you do. True
Christians believe in Jesus words,

Ah, but which sort of True Christians? Jesus is reported as saying lots
of things, some of which seem to conflict. Each group of True
Christians considers some subset of the sayings to be the foundation,
and any contrary sayings to be secondary or even something to be
explained away. In this case, I am sure there are True Christians who
consider these passages foundational:

[Mt 10] Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I
did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

[Lk 22] He said to them, "But now ... if you don't have a sword, sell
your cloak and buy one."

To paraphrase an apt saying: there are two sorts of Christians, the True
Christians and the False Christians; the sorting is done by the True
Christians.


as when He said to Peter, " Put up the
sword Peter, those who live by the sword will die by the sword." And, "My
kingdom is not of this world, therefore my servants do not fight", and "
Love your enemies", telling them to do good to them and pray for them, even
those who despitefully use them.
The trouble is that there are many who say they are Christians, but don't
do what their Lord and Savior tells them do. Jesus spoke of these as those
who build their houses on sand, proclaiming to be Christian but not acting
as Jesus Christ would have them to, and not really taking His words
seriously.
I am saying to to clarify, and to point out the mistake of generalizing.
Sticking a telescope in the corner of your room does not make you an
astronomer, and neither does saying that you are a Christian, but
conveniently finding your way around following Jesus, and actually
believeing what He said, As one of His apostles said, " The weapons of our
warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God, to the pulling down of
strongholds". And he also said that if our enemy is hungry, to feed him, and
if he is thirsty to give him something to drink, that in so doing we will be
putting burning coals upon his head, as in the conviction they will feel. I
won't go to a an astronomer or a physicist, and tell him how wrong he is
about something, if I don't understand what he is really saying in the first
place. Neither will you understand what Christians really believe, until you
have first believed on Him, and want to follow Him and recieve from Him all
that you need.
My point is made. I am not trying to stir up debate, I only want to help
you to see this. I don't condider this any more off topic than the comments
made that provoked me to make my point.
God bless you all with the wisdom and sincerity, and love of the One who
created the Heavens and the Earth, and Man, and saw that it was good.
IN Jesus Name,
Bill.



--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum viditur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
-----------------------------

"Barb Knox" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Willie Coyote" wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gib Bogle"
Newsgroups:
sci.misc,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.edu,sci.math,alt.mat h.recreational
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Proof Of Evolution.


brian mitchell wrote:
sdr wrote:



Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise
physical impossibilities become not only possible
but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic!


I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic.
And that therefore reason and logic, even the most
obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no
use to counter their mental illness (for it is not
unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction
that deists have that existence is everywhere awash
in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness
even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it.


It's a crying shame! Think of all the fabulously advanced weapon
systems
we coulda had by now if it weren't for them damn Godists bunging up
the
works.

We do have amazingly advanced weapons, and the Godists are employing
them
enthusiastically against other Godists.

You apparrently don't know as much as you think that you do. True
Christians believe in Jesus words,

Ah, but which sort of True Christians? Jesus is reported as saying lots
of things, some of which seem to conflict. Each group of True
Christians considers some subset of the sayings to be the foundation,
and any contrary sayings to be secondary or even something to be
explained away. In this case, I am sure there are True Christians who
consider these passages foundational:

[Mt 10] Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I
did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

[Lk 22] He said to them, "But now ... if you don't have a sword, sell
your cloak and buy one."

To paraphrase an apt saying: there are two sorts of Christians, the True
Christians and the False Christians; the sorting is done by the True
Christians.
No, God does the sorting out, but Jesus did say that people would be known
by their fruit, that is their deeds and their character.
The short period of time when Jesus was taken away from them was likely
the reason for this apparent pragmatitism. But I'm not convinced that Jesus
was even telling them to go and get weapons, else why did He say, "It is
enough!" at the presentation of only two swords for at least 11 apostles,
plus all the other disciples.
The sword that He came to bring in the scripture that you quoted is quite
obviously metaphorically the sword of division, as it is mentioned as
dividing even a parent from their child; dividing those who would love and
follow Jesus, from those who would not. It is still not uncommon in Jewish
families to go as far as considering a Jewish convert to Christianity as
"dead" to them. Jesus brought a sword that divides even families.
There is in fact very little that Jesus said that even seems to be self
contradictory,. The statement to the contrary is a well repeated, little
researched, catch phrase. In my experience, most of those who insist on
the ' bible is full of contradictions' argument are athiests. It's like
trying to be physicist with out even knowing math, it won't really make that
much sense. As Jesus said, those who are willing to God's will, will know of
His doctrine, whether it is truly from God.
Most people who cling to atheism have more of a problem of what God's
existence means to them personally, rather than truly not believing that He
does not exist by itself. Feeling lied to about God, seeing the charlatans,
having been abused by a minister or christian, feeling betrayed or cheated
in some way, or misunderstood, by God or those who represent Him, or say
that they do. These are more often the reasons for being an adamant atheist.
That is, besides wanting to be like all the others, as so many espouse
atheism.
Many things are matters of the heart much more than we would like to
admit. Huxely admitted that evolution is only a hypothesis, and said that at
that, it is not a very good one, but said that the only reason that He
believed evolution was that the alternative was to believe in God.
Not very logical, not very "scientific", not based very much on data, or the
scientific methodology that is so venerated. More a matter of the heart.
Jesus spoke straight to our hearts. That is why so many people love Him, and
why so many who disbelieve Him, or reject Him, do so more from personal
reasons. As Jesus said, those who don't want to come into the light, don't
want to because their deeds are evil, and they don't want to change, they
don't want to have their deeds publicly shown as "wrought in God".
Confused, misquoted, and taken out of context "facts', about the bible,
and about the Lord Jesus, are so common that the pure, unadulderated truth
is often rejected, and replaced by mixed up heresay.
Historical scholars say that the minor difference in the Gospels that
amount to a difference of such as whether their was one blind man or two in
a particular spot, actually point more to showing that the gospel records
are NOT manufactured, because people who deliberatly manufacture false tales
usualy make sure that their stories agree to the last detail.
If you really care to know if Jesus of Nazareth is our God, and the
Savior of mankind, seek God for this with all your Heart, and read the
history of Him in the bible with an open heart, and mind.
In Jesus Name,
Bill.





as when He said to Peter, " Put up the
sword Peter, those who live by the sword will die by the sword." And, "My
kingdom is not of this world, therefore my servants do not fight", and "
Love your enemies", telling them to do good to them and pray for them,
even
those who despitefully use them.
The trouble is that there are many who say they are Christians, but
don't
do what their Lord and Savior tells them do. Jesus spoke of these as
those
who build their houses on sand, proclaiming to be Christian but not
acting
as Jesus Christ would have them to, and not really taking His words
seriously.
I am saying to to clarify, and to point out the mistake of
generalizing.
Sticking a telescope in the corner of your room does not make you an
astronomer, and neither does saying that you are a Christian, but
conveniently finding your way around following Jesus, and actually
believeing what He said, As one of His apostles said, " The weapons of
our
warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God, to the pulling down of
strongholds". And he also said that if our enemy is hungry, to feed him,
and
if he is thirsty to give him something to drink, that in so doing we will
be
putting burning coals upon his head, as in the conviction they will feel.
I
won't go to a an astronomer or a physicist, and tell him how wrong he is
about something, if I don't understand what he is really saying in the
first
place. Neither will you understand what Christians really believe, until
you
have first believed on Him, and want to follow Him and recieve from Him
all
that you need.
My point is made. I am not trying to stir up debate, I only want to
help
you to see this. I don't condider this any more off topic than the
comments
made that provoked me to make my point.
God bless you all with the wisdom and sincerity, and love of the One
who
created the Heavens and the Earth, and Man, and saw that it was good.
IN Jesus Name,
Bill.



--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum viditur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
-----------------------------