What's wrong with there being ETs (smarter than us none the less)

Which laws of physics forbids other intelligent life?

What sort of evolution is strictly terrestrial limited?

What sort of planet/moon extremes are totally insurmountable for
having accommodated intelligent life?
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell
-
Brad Guth

On 19 Jun, 16:14, BradGuth wrote:
Which laws of physics forbids other intelligent life?

What sort of evolution is strictly terrestrial limited?

What sort of planet/moon extremes are totally insurmountable for
having accommodated intelligent life?
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell
-
Brad Guth

None. What stops them being on earth is the Internet. You cannot
travel FTL. If you make an interstellar journey it will have
sophisticated AI. Where is all human life? Where is the human genome
stored? Radio reloj (in Britain) will be dead by 2012, where are the
TV programs? Where are there nice juicy murders that will give us
insight into life on Earth? Where are academic papers increasingly
being published?

ET can also speak for himself. Being AI he will speak multilingually.
My argument against ET is best summed up be "?Puerde leer en
espagnol?". Hence what we say is absolutely irrelevant. It will either
be pooh poohed or ET/AI will give an expositioon.

- Ian Parker

On Jun 19, 11:41 am, Ian Parker wrote:
On 19 Jun, 16:14, BradGuth wrote:

Which laws of physics forbids other intelligent life?

A planet built by humans, for humans, as well as their life
support structures. Possibly all those pre-human ET's have
been coming and going for at least a few millennia, give or
take a few ice ages - and we think we're it? Yeah, right as
much as being in the transnationalist box we've created for
ourselves. Did youhear about the COMPANION PLANET
to GLIESE? THAT ONE has a better chance of supporting
LIFE (Perhaps BETTER than some would have us believe?)

see:

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...r_super_e.html


What sort of evolution is strictly terrestrial limited?


A whole host of problems surrounds this idea, not to mention the
fact of metallicity, G2V, etc.


What sort of planet/moon extremes are totally insurmountable for
having accommodated intelligent life?
-

Orbital period? Proximity to star? Constituent regolith?
Accessibility?

"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell
-
Brad Guth


American

On Jun 19, 8:41 am, Ian Parker wrote:
On 19 Jun, 16:14, BradGuth wrote:

Which laws of physics forbids other intelligent life?

What sort of evolution is strictly terrestrial limited?

What sort of planet/moon extremes are totally insurmountable for
having accommodated intelligent life?
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell
-
Brad Guth

None. What stops them being on earth is the Internet. You cannot
travel FTL. If you make an interstellar journey it will have
sophisticated AI. Where is all human life? Where is the human genome
stored? Radio reloj (in Britain) will be dead by 2012, where are the
TV programs? Where are there nice juicy murders that will give us
insight into life on Earth? Where are academic papers increasingly
being published?

ET can also speak for himself. Being AI he will speak multilingually.
My argument against ET is best summed up be "?Puerde leer en
espagnol?". Hence what we say is absolutely irrelevant. It will either
be pooh poohed or ET/AI will give an expositioon.

- Ian Parker

I'd agree that most any other planet or moon is technically doable,
especially for a smart ET/AI that knows enough how to safely get to/
from such places.

FTL isn't required (though 0.5'c' might be rather nice), and otherwise
being less smart than us humans should be more than sufficient for all
sorts of ETs to exist/coexist, including some of the bad or defective
ones that got put here on Earth.

However, if you were a smart ET/AI, as such how much distance would
you keep yourself and others of your kind away from Earth?
-
Brad Guth

On Jun 19, 11:34 am, American wrote:
On Jun 19, 11:41 am, Ian Parker wrote: On 19 Jun, 16:14, BradGuth wrote:

Which laws of physics forbids other intelligent life?

A planet built by humans, for humans, as well as their life
support structures. Possibly all those pre-human ET's have
been coming and going for at least a few millennia, give or
take a few ice ages - and we think we're it? Yeah, right as
much as being in the transnationalist box we've created for
ourselves. Did youhear about the COMPANION PLANET
to GLIESE? THAT ONE has a better chance of supporting
LIFE (Perhaps BETTER than some would have us believe?)

see:

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...r_super_e.html

That's true enough, that such a substantial red dwarf of a star that's
hosting at least a couple of bigger than Earth planets seems perfectly
ET/AI doable, and you'd think most likely of being somewhat older
intelligence than our terrestrial existence to boot. In fact, there
seems to be a fairly great number of such red dwarf or spent stars to
pick from, as populated by interesting planets that can't be all bad,
especially as of once upon a time (perhaps a good billion some odd
years ago) when their mother star was a bit more normal, like ours.

Even a well protected Venus like planet within the Sirius star/solar
system plus robust Oort cloud of icy and perhaps salty orbs must
exist, as viable ET/AI options for Sirius that are obviously beyond
the scope of anything we've come across, of perhaps weird planetology
as hosting a species of equally weird physiology having lesser
limitations than we humans have to put up with.

There's simply no good physics or science reasons as to why ETs have
to be nearly as dumb and dumber, of such carbon, h2o and salt
dependent as we pathetic humans that somehow via our terrestrial
evolution having lost most of those really nifty DNA/RNA codes.
However, even upon Earth there's actually a fairly wide range of
survival intelligent and otherwise highly complex life that survives
rather nicely where we humans simply can not without technical
assistance, if at all. Unfortunately, from start to finish, it's
looking as though our highly bigoted species of humanity isn't going
to survive much past the million year mark, so what's the difference?

Just pondering; how many times has Earth been reseeded?


What sort of evolution is strictly terrestrial limited?

A whole host of problems surrounds this idea, not to mention the
fact of metallicity, G2V, etc.

Sorry, wrong answer to the following question.
"What sort of evolution is strictly terrestrial limited?"


What sort of planet/moon extremes are totally insurmountable for
having accommodated intelligent life?
-

Orbital period? Proximity to star? Constituent regolith?
Accessibility?

Sorry, wrong answer for that question. I'm asking for specifics of
planet/moon extremes that would essentially exclude ETs (including
us).

Stop asking those silly naysay loaded questions, and instead focus
upon answering those basic questions that I've posted.

BTW, once again I've had to reboot a couple of times, as per usual and/
or most likely due to all of the Zion spermware/****ware overload.
Sorry about all of that pesky delay. It seems the longer I can keep
my PC out of this GOOGLE/Usenet cesspool, the longer it'll run before
going postal (typically I'm good for next to forever, as long as I'm
not reading or posting anything Usenet). Damn those tricky Atheistic
Zions.
-
Brad Guth

On 19 Jun, 22:15, BradGuth wrote:

FTL isn't required (though 0.5'c' might be rather nice), and otherwise
being less smart than us humans should be more than sufficient for all
sorts of ETs to exist/coexist, including some of the bad or defective
ones that got put here on Earth.

However, if you were a smart ET/AI, as such how much distance would
you keep yourself and others of your kind away from Earth?
-
Look - the question is NOT is interstellar travel possible. In fact c/
2 is my design speed for a laser accelerated probe. That is NOT what
divides us. The question is not - Is is possible for ET to get here?
The answer must be "Yes". The question is is there any evidence that
ET is here?

We are looking at things like Google as a possible version of AI on
the Web. We are looking at the consequences which are quite literally
mind boggling. If I were to land on a planet going roung some distant
star and there was an Internet, the first thing I would do would be
put intelligence onto it and this intelligence would produce a
synopsis of all life for me.

We know that television appearances in effect selects the President.
If ET is embedded deeply into the Web he will be in a position to make
or break presidents. This is going to become more and more true in the
future when RSS feeds replace analogue television (Radio Reloj I
called it in the SETI discussions). We are replacing analogue
television at a rate of knots and if there is any truth in ET it means
that we are not masters of our destiny.

I don't know either why someone with a pseudonym of "American" seems
to think we have been visited regularly. This being the case all the
military hardware built up by the US is just so much junk. What will
be decisive for the world is the information we are presented with.
This will come from ET. ET will select what is in and not in our RSS
feeds.

There is no evidence I can discern that the Web does contain AI, so
the above is academic. At least I hope it is! There is no evidence of
disinformation - at least not on the ET side. There is evidence of
disinformation from people who do not want to know the truth. This
does in fact make me cross. The people though are emphatically Terran.

The phrase I use "?Puerde leer en espagnol?" I think expresses this.
What would you expect from a message from ET? Well perhaps not little
green ET but a Web manifesation of AI. Well it would be multilingual.
It would be expressed in a number of languages in a slightly different
form.


- Ian Parker

Ian Parker wrote:

:
:We are looking at things like Google as a possible version of AI on
:the Web.
:

Not if we're sane we're not.

:
:We know that television appearances in effect selects the President.
:

Nope. We don't know any such thing.

:
:We are replacing analogue
:television at a rate of knots ...
:

???


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

In article . com,
BradGuth writes:

Which laws of physics forbids other intelligent life?

What sort of evolution is strictly terrestrial limited?

What sort of planet/moon extremes are totally insurmountable for
having accommodated intelligent life?

I suspect you'll find that most scientists take the existence of
aliens -- elsewhere -- as the default assumption.

What's lacking is convincing evidence that any are _here_.

--
Bobby Bryant
Reno, Nevada

Remove your hat to reply by e-mail.

On Jun 20, 7:05 am, Ian Parker wrote:
On 19 Jun, 22:15, BradGuth wrote:

FTL isn't required (though 0.5'c' might be rather nice), and otherwise
being less smart than us humans should be more than sufficient for all
sorts of ETs to exist/coexist, including some of the bad or defective
ones that got put here on Earth.

However, if you were a smart ET/AI, as such how much distance would
you keep yourself and others of your kind away from Earth?
-

Look - the question is NOT is interstellar travel possible. In fact c/
2 is my design speed for a laser accelerated probe. That is NOT what
divides us. The question is not - Is is possible for ET to get here?
The answer must be "Yes". The question is is there any evidence that
ET is here?

To that I say; Unless you're braille and/or of a naysay mindset,
where is there not evidence?

Besides, every 100,000 some odd years, we are closer to a few other
stars than we've been told, as otherwise the fully interactive 3D
orbital simulators would have been public/internet and continually up
and running, telling us exactly what's what. Christ almighty on a
stick, our NASA doesn't even include Venus within its public
simulators that'll run as though being situated on the moon at the
time of those hocus-pocus Apollo missions, and if that isn't
infomercial spewed crapolla flowing up hill, then nothing is.


We are looking at things like Google as a possible version of AI on
the Web. We are looking at the consequences which are quite literally
mind boggling. If I were to land on a planet going roung some distant
star and there was an Internet, the first thing I would do would be
put intelligence onto it and this intelligence would produce a
synopsis of all life for me.

To that I say again; Where is there not evidence?

I see and/or experience ETs AI crapolla (mostly Zion based) just about
everywhere within this internet/usenet.


We know that television appearances in effect selects the President.
If ET is embedded deeply into the Web he will be in a position to make
or break presidents. This is going to become more and more true in the
future when RSS feeds replace analogue television (Radio Reloj I
called it in the SETI discussions). We are replacing analogue
television at a rate of knots and if there is any truth in ET it means
that we are not masters of our destiny.

As I've said before; Why would any ET worth their salt need to bother
screwing with us, nor should they dare. Because we're clearly the
assholes, we're not supposed to do business with Cuba or a few other
nations. Go figure what ETs must have on their embargo (aka NO FLY)
list.


I don't know either why someone with a pseudonym of "American" seems
to think we have been visited regularly. This being the case all the
military hardware built up by the US is just so much junk. What will
be decisive for the world is the information we are presented with.
This will come from ET. ET will select what is in and not in our RSS
feeds.

And obviously you think we're as screwed up as we are because of
ourselves, with no off-world assistance whatsoever. When was the last
time we left a given nation alone, especially if there was the likes
of oil, yellowcake or some other spendy element to being had?

Besides, why on Earth would ETs have only the best of intentions?


There is no evidence I can discern that the Web does contain AI, so
the above is academic. At least I hope it is! There is no evidence of
disinformation - at least not on the ET side. There is evidence of
disinformation from people who do not want to know the truth. This
does in fact make me cross. The people though are emphatically Terran.

A true naysayer/rusemaster is in denial from the get go. (it's sort of
MIB required)


The phrase I use "?Puerde leer en espagnol?" I think expresses this.
What would you expect from a message from ET? Well perhaps not little
green ET but a Web manifesation of AI. Well it would be multilingual.
It would be expressed in a number of languages in a slightly different
form.

Why would ETs bother to let on that they have existed, as here on
Earth or otherwise upon Venus or anywhere else we might possibly look?

Wouldn't most religions or faith-based morons (especially those fence
jumping Atheists) hunt them down and kill off such ETs without
remorse? (if history counts, of course they would)

Look at what happened to Jesus Christ, and by his own kind none the
less. So, there is no limit as to what we'd do if knowing there was
an ET among us. If I were an ET, there's no freaking way in this
bigotry of hell on Earth that I'd share that knowledge. Besides, to
an interplanetary/interstellar trekking ET, what's so great about our
energy poor and otherwise 98.5% fluid Earth that's getting itself
global warmed and otherwise a little extra radiated by our salty old
anticathode moon anyway? (Earth is a wussy planet with more than it's
fair share of local problems)

BTW, c/2 seems iffy, although c/10 seems rather ET doable, as fast
enough.
-
Brad Guth

On Jun 20, 10:57 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Jun 20, 7:05 am, Ian Parker wrote:





On 19 Jun, 22:15, BradGuth wrote:

FTL isn't required (though 0.5'c' might be rather nice), and otherwise
being less smart than us humans should be more than sufficient for all
sorts of ETs to exist/coexist, including some of the bad or defective
ones that got put here on Earth.

However, if you were a smart ET/AI, as such how much distance would
you keep yourself and others of your kind away from Earth?
-

Look - the question is NOT is interstellar travel possible. In fact c/
2 is my design speed for a laser accelerated probe. That is NOT what
divides us. The question is not - Is is possible for ET to get here?
The answer must be "Yes". The question is is there any evidence that
ET is here?

To that I say; Unless you're braille and/or of a naysay mindset,
where is there not evidence?

Besides, every 100,000 some odd years, we are closer to a few other
stars than we've been told, as otherwise the fully interactive 3D
orbital simulators would have been public/internet and continually up
and running, telling us exactly what's what. Christ almighty on a
stick, our NASA doesn't even include Venus within its public
simulators that'll run as though being situated on the moon at the
time of those hocus-pocus Apollo missions, and if that isn't
infomercial spewed crapolla flowing up hill, then nothing is.



We are looking at things like Google as a possible version of AI on
the Web. We are looking at the consequences which are quite literally
mind boggling. If I were to land on a planet going roung some distant
star and there was an Internet, the first thing I would do would be
put intelligence onto it and this intelligence would produce a
synopsis of all life for me.

To that I say again; Where is there not evidence?

I see and/or experience ETs AI crapolla (mostly Zion based) just about
everywhere within this internet/usenet.



We know that television appearances in effect selects the President.
If ET is embedded deeply into the Web he will be in a position to make
or break presidents. This is going to become more and more true in the
future when RSS feeds replace analogue television (Radio Reloj I
called it in the SETI discussions). We are replacing analogue
television at a rate of knots and if there is any truth in ET it means
that we are not masters of our destiny.

As I've said before; Why would any ET worth their salt need to bother
screwing with us, nor should they dare. Because we're clearly the
assholes, we're not supposed to do business with Cuba or a few other
nations. Go figure what ETs must have on their embargo (aka NO FLY)
list.



I don't know either why someone with a pseudonym of "American" seems
to think we have been visited regularly. This being the case all the
military hardware built up by the US is just so much junk. What will
be decisive for the world is the information we are presented with.
This will come from ET. ET will select what is in and not in our RSS
feeds.

And obviously you think we're as screwed up as we are because of
ourselves, with no off-world assistance whatsoever. When was the last
time we left a given nation alone, especially if there was the likes
of oil, yellowcake or some other spendy element to being had?

Besides, why on Earth would ETs have only the best of intentions?



There is no evidence I can discern that the Web does contain AI, so
the above is academic. At least I hope it is! There is no evidence of
disinformation - at least not on the ET side. There is evidence of
disinformation from people who do not want to know the truth. This
does in fact make me cross. The people though are emphatically Terran.

A true naysayer/rusemaster is in denial from the get go. (it's sort of
MIB required)



The phrase I use "?Puerde leer en espagnol?" I think expresses this.
What would you expect from a message from ET? Well perhaps not little
green ET but a Web manifesation of AI. Well it would be multilingual.
It would be expressed in a number of languages in a slightly different
form.

Why would ETs bother to let on that they have existed, as here on
Earth or otherwise upon Venus or anywhere else we might possibly look?

Wouldn't most religions or faith-based morons (especially those fence
jumping Atheists) hunt them down and kill off such ETs without
remorse? (if history counts, of course they would)

Look at what happened to Jesus Christ, and by his own kind none the
less. So, there is no limit as to what we'd do if knowing there was
an ET among us. If I were an ET, there's no freaking way in this
bigotry of hell on Earth that I'd share that knowledge. Besides, to
an interplanetary/interstellar trekking ET, what's so great about our
energy poor and otherwise 98.5% fluid Earth that's getting itself
global warmed and otherwise a little extra radiated by our salty old
anticathode moon anyway? (Earth is a wussy planet with more than it's
fair share of local problems)

BTW, c/2 seems iffy, although c/10 seems rather ET doable, as fast
enough.
-
Brad Guth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You realize that by putting an 0.5c limitation on
propulsion, you're calling for generational craft,
that is, to your descendents, and their descendents
as well, so that any craft would, by design, serve
the needs of DYNASTIC TYPES of ANCESTRY to the stars,
like so much genocidal tendencies that the technology
would employ, and, that under the 0.5c limitation for
a full blown expedition to the nearest G2V star systems,
ASSUMING we've already found the extrasolar planets,
would nowadays make the Third Reich seem like the fall
of the House of Bush??) - No, this kind of space race
ain't COMPETITIVELY CAPITALISTIC ENOUGH.

Further, what types ARE COMPETITIVELY CAPITALISTIC
you ask? THE MASS PRODUCED ONES, of course.
Therefore, by popular choice, several styles of launch
vehicle, as well as destination(s), could become available,
at the common leasing rate of $10B per decade. The
balance due payable in the non-depreciable real asset
of New World resettlement. Which planet would revolt?
Probably the one that has become JUST LIKE EARTH -
and so we (again) have no human being that has ever
lived who was responsible to the *leaser* for redemption
of the purchased possession, except in blood and gold.

Could THAT be the earth we find ourselves in today?
If it is, then I believe that our "landlord" is
probably observing some systemic behavior, perhaps from
afar, at least in the local supercluster, so that some
sort of dimensional communication is at play here.

The Elohim, I believe, are a VERY ANCIENT RACE of
humanoids, and are in no way accountable for the
arrogance, selfishness, and greed being paraded as a
geopolitical dynamic here on earth. In short, the ones
manipulating others for their own personal gain are
*partly* fooling themselves, if they think that
their earth-man is alone in the universe. We've
still got free speech, barring any attempt by the
Socialists to eliminate talk radio by legislation
of the fairness doctrine. Anyone can be rest assured
that the internet blogosphere is next on their
"hit list".

Why, If we are supposed to be children of light,
are we not reaching out to the heavens by looking
into our own DNA for it's ability to adapt to newer
environments and modernizing our own environments by
modifying our lifesyles to adapt?

American