Observing report 12th Nov 2004 - 404:Galaxy Not Found

Equipment : Orion Optics(UK) Europa 250 ("Mini-Hubble") on HEQ5
Conditions: Clear, slightly windy. No moon. Clarity and visibility both
fair. More light pollution than normal due to
wind-triggered outdoor lights.
Location : Stafford, England.
Objects : M45, M33, NGC404, M1

Set up outside at about 8.30pm. I intended this to be a fairly hurried
session, rushing through a few old favourites and trying to find a few
new ones. A sort of 'spot and go' session if you like.

First up: M45. No real difficulty in finding *this* cluster but my
challenge was to see if I could spot any nebulosity, either with or
without a UHC filter. I used my lowest magnification of 37.5x (32mm ep)
and was able to fit almost all of the cluster in view. Without the
filter there was no hint of nebulosity to be seen. With the UHC filter
the results were a bit more uncertain. I'll state here and now that I
don't think I've seen the nebulosity, even around Merope where it is
most obvious, but I think I could _almost_ catch it. There was perhaps
just a bit more haze than is normally associated with bright stars in
the field of view but I really can't be sure. I'll try again another
night and use my 150mm refractor - its smaller focal length may help.

Moving on, I decided to try for something completely new to me: NGC404
in Andromeda. This is a Magnitude 10ish lenticular galaxy and is very
easy to find. However, the thing that makes it easy to find is also,
ironically, the thing that can make it hard to see - Mirach, Beta
Andromedae. This is a magnitude +2 star (a rather lovely orange one) and
NGC404 lies _very_ close to it, so much so that the glare from the star
can mask it somewhat. It showed itself as a flattened, circular bulge of
light quite near to Mirach and I have to admit to not having any
problems keeping them both in view at the same time. Visually I found
that my 20mm ep (60x) seemed to give the best view. One to return to and
one that I was pleased to find so easily.

So, as you may have gathered, the subject line of this post is wrong. I
just liked the joke.

Ahem.

Next up: M33. I've tried on many occasions to spot this large, face on
spiral galaxy and have never succeeded.

Until tonight.

Barely.

Using my lowest power e/p I was _just_ able to catch a very, very faint
bulge of light in the right place. In fact it was more of a change in
the texture of the sky than a light bulge but it was definitely there
and confirms what others have said: you _really_ need dark skies for
this object. I could catch no hint of the arms of the galaxy, only the
merest hint of the hub. Another reason for me to actually go and find a
darker site.

Lastly M1, the Crab Nebula in Taurus. Finding it is easy: Locate the 'V'
of Taurus. Extend the lower horn out until you hit a bright-ish star
(Zeta Tau). Move a tiny bit up towards the upper horn. There you go.
Once again, the lowest mag e/p gave the best result, and the UHC filter
brought out slightly more detail. However, M1 was not well placed at the
time, having only just barely cleared the roof of the house next door. I
was, however, able to detect the overal distictive shape of the nebula
both with and without the filter.

Packed up at about 10.10pm. It was a fun evening.

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

As you probably realize by now, you have to have a practised eye, patience, and
doggedness to spot some of these DSO's. I could get NGC404 pretty easily with
a 13.1" at high power (which allowed me to get the star out of the FOV). I
barely was able to tell M33 was there, and only managed once. M1 was pretty
easy once I really figured out where it was. Good report, and you seem to be
using your experience to your advantage....
Clear, Dark, Steady Skies!
(And considerate neighbors!!!)

So, as you may have gathered, the subject line of this post is wrong. I
just liked the joke.


When i saw the topic line i wondered to myself if you were talking about
Mirach's Ghost. And indeed you were! I liked your joke... ;-)

-Florian

Wfoley2 wrote:

As you probably realize by now, you have to have a practised eye,
patience, and doggedness to spot some of these DSO's.

And a chair. A chair helps :-)

I could get NGC404 pretty easily with
a 13.1" at high power (which allowed me to get the star out of the FOV). I
barely was able to tell M33 was there, and only managed once. M1 was pretty
easy once I really figured out where it was. Good report, and you seem to be
using your experience to your advantage....

The strange thing about experience is you sometimes don't realise you're
gaining it until someone points it out..!

Clear, Dark, Steady Skies!

And to you.

(And considerate neighbors!!!)

Don't get me started.

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Florian wrote:

So, as you may have gathered, the subject line of this post is wrong. I
just liked the joke.


When i saw the topic line i wondered to myself if you were talking about
Mirach's Ghost. And indeed you were! I liked your joke... ;-)

Thank you. It was a fairly poor joke but I'm tired..!

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Hi Jim,

I enjoyed your report of last night, especially as I too was out last night
also with my 250mm F4.8 Orion, but on a GP-DX mount. Despite the sky being
totally clear of cloud, the conditions were not as good as I had hoped for,
with general sky glow and haziness caused by very moist air, plus a bit of a
wind, which at least kept the dew at bay.

Talking about M33, I can definitely recommend travelling to a dark sky site
for this object. Like you it appears as just a brighter core when viewed
from even the reasonable dark skies I enjoy 10 miles out of York (no street
lights in our village). However, at last year's Kielder Star Camp in the
wilds of Northumberland it was a totally different matter. This is one
object where dark skies really make a huge difference. I could see the
whole galaxy as a series of mottled spiralish patches showing the brighter
HII regions well, some of which have their own NGC numbers. This was with
both my 32mm Plossl eyepiece and a 2" 40mm Erfle (exit pupil on the large
side, but still works well with really good dark adaptation).

NGC404 sounds interesting, I'll have to have a go next time.

Very best wishes and clear, dark skies.

--

/Paul B, York, UK.
http://homepages.tesco.net/paul.buglass/astrohome.htm


"Jim" wrote in message
...
Equipment : Orion Optics(UK) Europa 250 ("Mini-Hubble") on HEQ5
Conditions: Clear, slightly windy. No moon. Clarity and visibility both
fair. More light pollution than normal due to
wind-triggered outdoor lights.
Location : Stafford, England.
Objects : M45, M33, NGC404, M1

Set up outside at about 8.30pm. I intended this to be a fairly hurried
session, rushing through a few old favourites and trying to find a few
new ones. A sort of 'spot and go' session if you like.

First up: M45. No real difficulty in finding *this* cluster but my
challenge was to see if I could spot any nebulosity, either with or
without a UHC filter. I used my lowest magnification of 37.5x (32mm ep)
and was able to fit almost all of the cluster in view. Without the
filter there was no hint of nebulosity to be seen. With the UHC filter
the results were a bit more uncertain. I'll state here and now that I
don't think I've seen the nebulosity, even around Merope where it is
most obvious, but I think I could _almost_ catch it. There was perhaps
just a bit more haze than is normally associated with bright stars in
the field of view but I really can't be sure. I'll try again another
night and use my 150mm refractor - its smaller focal length may help.

Moving on, I decided to try for something completely new to me: NGC404
in Andromeda. This is a Magnitude 10ish lenticular galaxy and is very
easy to find. However, the thing that makes it easy to find is also,
ironically, the thing that can make it hard to see - Mirach, Beta
Andromedae. This is a magnitude +2 star (a rather lovely orange one) and
NGC404 lies _very_ close to it, so much so that the glare from the star
can mask it somewhat. It showed itself as a flattened, circular bulge of
light quite near to Mirach and I have to admit to not having any
problems keeping them both in view at the same time. Visually I found
that my 20mm ep (60x) seemed to give the best view. One to return to and
one that I was pleased to find so easily.

So, as you may have gathered, the subject line of this post is wrong. I
just liked the joke.

Ahem.

Next up: M33. I've tried on many occasions to spot this large, face on
spiral galaxy and have never succeeded.

Until tonight.

Barely.

Using my lowest power e/p I was _just_ able to catch a very, very faint
bulge of light in the right place. In fact it was more of a change in
the texture of the sky than a light bulge but it was definitely there
and confirms what others have said: you _really_ need dark skies for
this object. I could catch no hint of the arms of the galaxy, only the
merest hint of the hub. Another reason for me to actually go and find a
darker site.

Lastly M1, the Crab Nebula in Taurus. Finding it is easy: Locate the 'V'
of Taurus. Extend the lower horn out until you hit a bright-ish star
(Zeta Tau). Move a tiny bit up towards the upper horn. There you go.
Once again, the lowest mag e/p gave the best result, and the UHC filter
brought out slightly more detail. However, M1 was not well placed at the
time, having only just barely cleared the roof of the house next door. I
was, however, able to detect the overal distictive shape of the nebula
both with and without the filter.

Packed up at about 10.10pm. It was a fun evening.

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

"Jim" wrote in message
...
[snip]
So, as you may have gathered, the subject line of this post is wrong. I
just liked the joke.

Jim,
Even by my standards, that was appalling. LOL
Grim

Grimble Gromble wrote:

"Jim" wrote in message
...
[snip]
So, as you may have gathered, the subject line of this post is wrong. I
just liked the joke.

Jim,
Even by my standards, that was appalling. LOL

I'd apologise but we both know I wouldn't mean it :-)

Jim
--
AIM/iSight:JCAndrew2 - Log in and say 'hi'
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

Jim wrote:

NGC404 in Andromeda...
...
Visually I found that my 20mm ep (60x) seemed to give the best view. One
to return to and one that I was pleased to find so easily.

I returned to this object last night and my original estimate was wrong
- probably I was just mis-remembering. I actually found that 120x gave
the best view, based on a barlowed-20mm e/p.

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk AIM/iChatAV: JCAndrew2
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:08:38 +0000, (Jim)
wrote:

Jim wrote:

NGC404 in Andromeda...
...
Visually I found that my 20mm ep (60x) seemed to give the best view. One
to return to and one that I was pleased to find so easily.

I returned to this object last night and my original estimate was wrong
- probably I was just mis-remembering. I actually found that 120x gave
the best view, based on a barlowed-20mm e/p.

Jim

If you can use enough power to exclude the star, it looks better.
-Rich