Re: Lest we forget

[Rusty Barton]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:13:48 GMT, Doug... > wrote:

>Let's all take a moment to remember the historic journey that began 34
>years ago today, shall we?

Will any of the 12 original lunar explorers still be alive when people
walk on the moon again?

How far off are the next steps on the moon? 5-years, 10-years,
15-years?




--
Rusty Barton - Antelope, California |"Every so often, I like to
| stick my head out the window,
| look up, and smile for the
| satellite picture."-Steven Wright

[Doug...]

In article >,
says...
>
> <crap>
>
> Jack Schmitt was the next youngest, being about three months younger
> than Duke.

Damned mis-speak syndrome strikes again -- I meant Schmitt is three
months older than Duke. Duke was born in October of 1935, Schmitt in
July.

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[Kent Betts]

"Rusty Barton"
> Will any of the 12 original lunar explorers still be alive when people
> walk on the moon again?
>
> How far off are the next steps on the moon? 5-years, 10-years,
> 15-years?

The Moon is not on a high priority. Mars is more interesting. Also Phobos.

[Ned Pike]

"Doug..." > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
> > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:13:48 GMT, Doug... > wrote:
> >
>
> I'm afraid it will be at least 10 years, maybe longer. Hell, I hope
> *I'm* still alive when it happens, and I was 13 when the first moon
> landing occurred.
>
> Damn, that thought is a buzzkill, isn't it?
>

I was five in 1969 and I'm not at all sanguine about the prospects of us
getting back there before my demise.

On another, somewhat related, note: I have the bad feeling that A.C.
Clarke's scenario in the novel "2010" (not the movie) may well come true at
this rate.

[OM]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:13:24 -0500, Doug... >
wrote:

>Good plan. I still have both my videotape from the A&E "As It Happened"
>broadcast in 1989, and the DVD from the Apogee Books Apollo 11 Mission
>Report Volume III. I figure I'll set one of those up and synch it to
>roughly (within a minute) the correct timeframe. The videotape is
>actually preferable for reliving the moment, it has the NBC coverage.

....I'd give Pat's left nut if I could get a DiVX rip of the NBC
coverage. What got posted was the raw EVA feed, with none of the
network commentary. Nobody seems to have this one around, and to be
honest you should consider doing a rip yourself if you have the
equipment. VHS has this problem with shelf life :-(

>(I'd prefer the CBS coverage, but that's never been rebroadcast to my
>knowledge.)

....I've related my attempts in the past, back when I was in TV. Last
time I spoke with Bill Harwood, he had AbZero success in getting the
same, and he *runs* the Space desk at See-BS.

You know, Jim Oberg works for NBC now. I wonder if we can pursuade our
clonal progenitor to help us out here :-)

>While I didn't do it in actual time synch (I had to work and wasn't able
>to watch TV this morning, unfortunately), I did watch through the launch
>segment of the "As It Happened" special this evening. Again, it was the
>NBC coverage. It was fun watching David Brinkley and Frank McGee once
>again.

....McGee's untimely death was a major blow to NBC's news department,
almost as much as when Chet Huntley retired. The man had a news
delivery that, while on the same level as John Chancellor, could be a
bit more commanding. Where you trusted Unca Walter because he *was*
Unca Walter, with McGee you trusted him because he was more the hard
serious type in his delivery.

>There is an interesting effect visible during the Apollo 11 launch that I
>don't recall seeing in any other Apollo launch. There were scattered low
>cumulous clouds around the Cape that day, and a high, thin hazy layer of
>cirrus. As the Saturn rose through the higher cirrus layer, you could
>see the shadow of the booster upon the cloud layer move away in the
>opposite direction, and the clouds themselves rippled like a pond with a
>stone tossed into it as the exhaust passed through it. A very impressive
>sight, and one you never see in the old NASA films.

....But you do see it in some Shuttle launch films, and it *is* a
spectacular sight! Some time back, someone posted a link to a really
good shot of this, and if time permits I'll see if I can dig it up on
NASA's image archives.

>I was also interested to notice that the tracking cameras have gotten
>much better in the last 34 years. The images of SIC-SII staging were
>very blurry and indistinct. Compared to the high-quality images we've
>seen of SRB sep on shuttle launches, they were really crappy. And while
>I don't think it was ever possible to see the SII-SIVB staging from the
>launch site (too far downrange), they lost sight of the vehicle only
>about five minutes after liftoff. So, the tracking cameras have
>definitely improved. (Hell, they improved over the next couple of years
>after Apollo 11 -- I recall watching the Apollo 14 launch and seeing
>quite clearly not only the first staging event, but also the skirt sep
>and the tower jett.)

....And this is why the launch sequence in "Apollo 13" was so well
received. The composite between model and CGI effects were so clean
that it matched what people's own interpretations of the blurry
tracking camera footage *had* to have looked like if the resolution
would have been any better. Even Buzz Aldrin wanted to know where Ron
Howard had gotten the "stock NASA footage" :-)


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Dale]

I was just driving home from a late night at work, and looked
up at the Moon. Mars is right next to it, extremely bright. I was
11 during Apollo 11, and I hope to live long enough to see us go
back to the moon, as well as walk on its neighbor in tonight's sky.

Tom Hank's thumb could have covered both of them tonight :)

Dale

[Dale]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:41:22 -0700, I wrote:

>Tom Hank's

Err, that should be Hanks'... :)

Dale

[Jorge R. Frank]

OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org>
wrote in :

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:13:24 -0500, Doug... >
> wrote:
>
>>There is an interesting effect visible during the Apollo 11 launch
>>that I don't recall seeing in any other Apollo launch. There were
>>scattered low cumulous clouds around the Cape that day, and a high,
>>thin hazy layer of cirrus. As the Saturn rose through the higher
>>cirrus layer, you could see the shadow of the booster upon the cloud
>>layer move away in the opposite direction, and the clouds themselves
>>rippled like a pond with a stone tossed into it as the exhaust passed
>>through it. A very impressive sight, and one you never see in the old
>>NASA films.
>
> ...But you do see it in some Shuttle launch films, and it *is* a
> spectacular sight! Some time back, someone posted a link to a really
> good shot of this, and if time permits I'll see if I can dig it up on
> NASA's image archives.

STS-96 was one that I saw in person. The sight of the shadow racing off in
the opposite direction as the stack (the launch was right after sunrise)
got a loud gasp out of the crowd.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

[TVDad Jim]

"Ned Pike" > wrote in message >...

> On another, somewhat related, note: I have the bad feeling that A.C.
> Clarke's scenario in the novel "2010" (not the movie) may well come true at
> this rate.

You're expecting a text message from Jupiter space, saying "ALL THESE
WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EURORA -- ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE?"

:)

[Ned Pike]

"TVDad Jim" > wrote in message
om...
> "Ned Pike" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > On another, somewhat related, note: I have the bad feeling that A.C.
> > Clarke's scenario in the novel "2010" (not the movie) may well come true
at
> > this rate.
>
> You're expecting a text message from Jupiter space, saying "ALL THESE
> WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EURORA -- ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE?"

No, the Chinese beating us to the outer planets.

[Sam Seiber]

wrote:
> Doug... > wrote on Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:16:12 -0500:
> :D I heard that, and Buzz ought to have known better. The only Saturn V
> :D that ever sported that paint pattern was AS-500F, the facilities
> :D demonstrator. It was an excellent sequence in the film, but the
> :D incorrect paint pattern really, really bugged me...
> You and just about every one of the rest of us Apollo Geeks! This could
> easily devolve into another one of those free-for-all's about the various
> mistakes and inconsistencies in what is probably the best
> pseudo-documentary film ever made (and it's HBO miniseries cousins, From
> the Earth to the Moon).
>
> Jim.
>

I don't know why we get so up in arms about wrong roll patterns, but
we do. I know the roll pattern shown in Apollo 13 got me all wigged
out.
Maybe it is because people like me painted our first Saturn-V rocket
models
based on a great picture we saw of an S-V in a book, only to learn
latter
that that was the 500F, and not one of the real S-V's that launched.
Right here in my office, I have two S-V models (1:144). One painted
wrong, and one painted right. I don't know why such a little thing
bugs me so much, but it does.

Sam

BTW, IIRC the S-V in the movie isn't even right for a 500-F.
Right?

[Rusty B]

Dale > wrote in message >...
> I was just driving home from a late night at work, and looked
> up at the Moon. Mars is right next to it, extremely bright. I was
> 11 during Apollo 11, and I hope to live long enough to see us go
> back to the moon, as well as walk on its neighbor in tonight's sky.
>
> Tom Hank's thumb could have covered both of them tonight :)
>

Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
TV? ;-)


Why, I remember watching Alan Shepards sub-orbital flight on TV as a
kid. Back then, we only had 5 channels and it was in black and white.
We didn't have remote controls, noooo. If you were a kid yor WERE the
remote. ;-) Click, click, click, click. Wiggle knob (Dad needs to get
some of that tuner spray), fine tune picture, adjust rabbit ears,
readjust rabbit ears, wrap aluminum foil on rabbit ears, touch rabbit
ears with one hand while watching picture and waving other hand in the
air. ;->. Good the picture isn't too snowy and only has 2 ghosts. Of
course during the good parts of a show an airplane would fly over and
cause the picture to flutter until it passed. Then some car would
drive by with unshielded ignition wires and you would see dashed lines
on the screen and hear buzzing from the speaker. Then the picture
would start a vertical roll, play with the know until it stopped.
Maybe this weekend Dad will take the tubes down to the drugstore and
test them on the tube tester. The TV might need a new one. After
watching for hours, "Sorry the launch is scrubbed. They will try again
in a few days." We can do this all over again then.

Ah the good old days, some parts were better than others.

--
Rusty Barton - Antelope, California

[Henry Spencer]

In article >,
Ned Pike > wrote:
>> You're expecting a text message from Jupiter space, saying "ALL THESE
>> WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EURORA -- ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE?"
>
>No, the Chinese beating us to the outer planets.

Uh, beating who? In the world of "2010", the *first* expedition to the
outer planets was launched by the US in 2001.

And there is no indication today that the Chinese have any specific plans
for manned activity beyond LEO.
--
MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! |

[OM]

On 17 Jul 2003 11:44:00 -0700, (Rusty B) wrote:

>Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
>TV? ;-)

....I did. In fact, I caught pretty much all coverage from GT-4 on up
to A11, and had two TV's on during the first EVA - the color one on
See-BS, the B&W on NBC. ABC got ****ed, natch :-P

Prior to GT-4, the only one I can claim to have followed coverage on
was Glenn's flight, but that's because I was about 3 months old, and
the parental units had the radio on in the car at the time...


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Jonathan Silverlight]

In message >, Doug...
> writes
>In article >,
says...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
>> TV? ;-)
>>
>>
>> Ah the good old days, some parts were better than others.
>
>"...singin' my life with his words..."
>
>I remember watching Ranger IX's "Live from the Moon" images as that frail
>little craft made its bombing run on Alphonsus, and wishing that I could
>be there myself (yeah, I know, it was a fatal dive... it was still more
>fascinating than anything else I had ever seen).

Don't recall seeing that live, but I do remember when Jodrell Bank
scooped the Russians with the first pictures from the surface. And I
remember getting up early to watch the first Surveyor. And that
incredible blue sky in the Viking colour picture (I know it wasn't
calibrated) And the sheer excitement of the Halley fly-by.

>
>I remember running around my neighborhood in March of '66 on my bike,
>telling my friends breathlessly that Gemini VIII had successfully docked
>with their Agena, making history... and then coming home to find out that
>*they* were coming home in the next couple of hours.
>
>I remember watching TV on a January night in 1967 when a news flash
>stated that "at least one member of the Apollo 1 crew has been killed in
>a flash fire at Cape Kennedy." I remember crying.

I remember the Russians, too. And more recent American losses :-(

>
>I remember not being able to sleep on the night of December 20, 1968,
>getting up to watch the launch coverage that started at 5 a.m. CST, and
>watching a Saturn V finally take off carrying a crew -- and taking them
>to the moon. At last.

"In the beginning..."

>
>I remember listening to the beginning of the very first Powered Descent
>Initiation on the radio while my Dad was inside the local drugstore,
>buying film so that I could take pictures of the moonwalk later that
>night off the TV screen.
>


>I remember sweating through the night of November 13, 1969, watching our
>brand-new cable TV system's news channel (which was simply the AP
>teletype wire attached to a character generator and sent out on an unused
>channel of the few that were actually provided) to see if Apollo 12's
>liquid hydrogen cryo tank was going to be replaced in time for the launch
>the next morning.

I watched the rocket on its way! Didn't see it when it came back, though
:-(

My brother has a scrapbook with our rendition of Apollo 13's course

I spent _days_ working out predictions for the ASTP mission, with a
Novus 4525 programmable calculator and equations from QST magazine meant
for OSCAR satellites.

I lived through half of a century that saw "the gulf between the first
hundred-foot flight at Kitty Hawk, and the first billion-mile mission to
the moons of Jupiter". (Thanks, ACC) OK, that last wasn't manned but
you can't have everything, especially if you want live astronauts.

We've seen things no-one will ever see again. Good and bad.
--
"Roads in space for rockets to travel....four-dimensional roads, curving with
relativity"
Mail to jsilverlight AT merseia.fsnet.co.uk is welcome.
Or visit Jonathan's Space Site http://www.merseia.fsnet.co.uk

[Sam Seiber]

Doug... wrote:
> I remember the hollow feeling when Apollo 17 returned to Earth and there
> were no more moon landings to look forward to for a LONG time.

And to follow up that same hollow feeling for me, the last launch of a
Saturn V.......at least with people on board. The Saturn V is by far
still my favorite machine. About every time I see a real one, I think
"What a machine". The only machine built that could take you to another
place. {and lets not get all snippy about what the definition of
"another place" may be. I think of it as a place that wasn't built
by humans}.

Sam

[Mary Shafer]

On 17 Jul 2003 11:44:00 -0700, (Rusty B) wrote:

> Dale > wrote in message >...
> > I was just driving home from a late night at work, and looked
> > up at the Moon. Mars is right next to it, extremely bright. I was
> > 11 during Apollo 11, and I hope to live long enough to see us go
> > back to the moon, as well as walk on its neighbor in tonight's sky.
> >
> > Tom Hank's thumb could have covered both of them tonight :)

> Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
> TV? ;-)

I was in college.

> Why, I remember watching Alan Shepards sub-orbital flight on TV as a
> kid. Back then, we only had 5 channels and it was in black and white.
> We didn't have remote controls, noooo. If you were a kid yor WERE the
> remote. ;-) Click, click, click, click. Wiggle knob (Dad needs to get
> some of that tuner spray), fine tune picture, adjust rabbit ears,
> readjust rabbit ears, wrap aluminum foil on rabbit ears, touch rabbit
> ears with one hand while watching picture and waving other hand in the
> air. ;->. Good the picture isn't too snowy and only has 2 ghosts. Of
> course during the good parts of a show an airplane would fly over and
> cause the picture to flutter until it passed. Then some car would
> drive by with unshielded ignition wires and you would see dashed lines
> on the screen and hear buzzing from the speaker. Then the picture
> would start a vertical roll, play with the know until it stopped.
> Maybe this weekend Dad will take the tubes down to the drugstore and
> test them on the tube tester. The TV might need a new one. After
> watching for hours, "Sorry the launch is scrubbed. They will try again
> in a few days." We can do this all over again then.

Remember Echo? Telstar? Sputnik? I do.

> Ah the good old days, some parts were better than others.

The good old days weren't. I still remember hand-reducing flight data
in 1967.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all."
Anonymous US fighter pilot

[OM]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:48:15 -0600, Sam Seiber
> wrote:

>Of you repair tips, you left out my fathers favorite way of
>getting things working again. A hard punch to the top of the
>TV. Seemed to work alarming well. When that trick quit
>working, down to the TV tube tester we went. Pop knew his ****
>about tube circuits tho, he tought it in the Air Force.

....Every once in a while, those tube testers show up on eBay as
collector's items. Sometimes the damn things actually have *tubes* in
them.Until solid state sets became affordable, the convenience stores
actually made some fair returns on their investments. I actually
repaired not only the old B&W with the 25" screen that my parents gave
me when I was 10 using a tube tester, but a shortwave radio that I'd
found in a dumpster, and the only thing that was wrong with that was
one tube was gassy and quit working after 10 minutes, and the crystal
in the BFO had gotten knocked loose!


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Paul Blay]

"TVDad Jim" wrote ...

Close ...

> "Ned Pike" > wrote in message >...
>
> > On another, somewhat related, note: I have the bad feeling that A.C.
> > Clarke's scenario in the novel "2010" (not the movie) may well come true at
> > this rate.
>
> You're expecting a

> text message

> from Jupiter space, saying

"LL WRLDS R URS CPT ERPA -- ATTMPT NO LNDNGS THRE"

> "ALL THESE
> WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EURORA -- ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE?"

[[email protected]]

Rusty Barton > wrote on 17 Jul 2003 11:44:00 -0700:

:RB Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
:RB TV? ;-)

I was almost 9 years old and we lived in Sault Ste. Marie in the U.P.
of Michigan (my Dad was stationed at the Coast Guard base there and we
lived right across from the east approach area of the Soo locks that
separate the lakes). I remember it being the first time I got to stay
up late at night to watch TV. I remember the image being sort of
ghostly and black and white and at the time, I attributed that to my
watching it on an old B&W Zenith TV, but in hindsight, it was not
entirely the TV's fault! Earlier in the day, we were visiting some
friends down at Kincheloe AFB during the landing. I remember as they
prepared for EVA, they showed simulations of what they expected things
to be like on the moon with a suited actor climbing down a model of
the LM.

Jim.

Jim Scotti
Lunar & Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721 USA http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/

[Bruce Palmer]

OM wrote:
> ...Every once in a while, those tube testers show up on eBay as
> collector's items. Sometimes the damn things actually have *tubes* in
> them.Until solid state sets became affordable, the convenience stores
> ...

I remember our first solid state unit: Quasar -!-!-!-! by Motorola. It
had the "works in a drawer", but I also remember when it finally got old
those damn works-in-a-drawer didn't make it any cheaper to fix.

--
bp
Proud Member of the Human O-Ring Society Since 2003

[Bruce Palmer]

Doug... wrote:
> "...singin' my life with his words..."
> ...

Doug, this was a truly marvelous post. Brought a tear to my eye.

--
bp
Proud Member of the Human O-Ring Society Since 2003

[OM]

On 18 Jul 2003 10:28:18 -0700, (TVDad Jim) wrote:

>I know there's tube-heads out there today. God bless you all. But I'm
>extremely thankful for solid-state devices and IC chips.

....Oh no arguement there. On the other hand, i can just see an
alternate timeline where the FCC mandated that all TV using expensive
ICs that were prone to blow were mounted using ZIF sockets so
consumers could easily replace and/or upgrade their sets. Out goes the
tube tester, in comes the IC tester :-)

"Whaddya mean you don't carry any KD2114's???"

"Because most people don't build their own audio compression
amplifiers, sir."


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Jonathan Griffitts]

Rusty Barton > wrote on 17 Jul 2003 11:44:00 -0700:
>
>Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
>TV? ;-)


I have to confess that I did not, since I didn't have a TV available. We
were in Thessaloniki, Greece and listened to the EVAs on US Armed Forces
Radio.

It was an interesting time to be overseas. All over Greece and Turkey,
when people found out we were American they immediately wanted to talk
about Apollo 11, with great enthusiasm. The national prestige objective
of the Apollo program was certainly successful that summer.
--
Jonathan Griffitts
AnyWare Engineering Boulder, CO, USA

[Ralph]

First flight I remember was John Glenn and Friendship 7 in 1962; clearly
remembering "That was some fireball, boy!"

I remember the 'Early Bird' satellite broadcasts on the evening news. Also,
the Ranger and Surveyor moon missions.

I also remember Gemini III, with Gus Grissom and John Young. The CBS crew
was comparing the flight to that of Glenn's. Then, remember Gemini V having
a launch scrubbed due to an abrupt thunderstorm at the Cape. Also, the
surprise of the unexpected splashdown of Gemini VIII due to their problems.
I spent most of my secondary school career conning the teacher into turning
on the class television in order to catch the latest manned launches.
Usually I got my way, but there was that fourth grade teacher who just
didn't get the purpose of all that space stuff, had to beg to her to tune in
the t.v.

Also remember the televised funerals for the crew of Apollo 1, that was in
the fifth grade. The fifth grade teacher was cool, saw the space program as
worthwhile and included it in her science lessons.

Didn't miss a thing with the Apollo flights. I played 'hooky' if a flight
was launching on a particular day. I always enjoyed CBS coverage, for they
had the coolest intro music for their broadcasts. But, still remember
Cronkite bitching about the costs for Apollo 17, which surprised me for I
thought him to be a major supporter for manned spaceflight.




"Rusty B" > wrote in message
om...
> Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
> TV? ;-)

[Doug...]

In article >,
says...
> Doug... wrote:
> > "...singin' my life with his words..."
> > ...
>
> Doug, this was a truly marvelous post. Brought a tear to my eye.

Thank you, Bruce.

Y'all can see why I hang out in this newsgroup, despite the episodic
frustrations of noise overshadowing signal.

Manned and unamnned space exploration is the one thing that most
completely excites my sense of wonder. It keeps me young in a world
determined to make me old and bitter.

So, let's talk about Apollo this week, shall we? It seems appropriate.

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[MasterShrink]

>But, still remember
>Cronkite bitching about the costs for Apollo 17, which surprised me for I
>thought him to be a major supporter for manned spaceflight.

Hm, guess even then the media swayed with what was "in" politically...

-A.L.
A young 20 year old whose parents hadn't even met yet at during Apollo 11.

[OM]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:05:39 -0500, Doug... >
wrote:

>included carefully crafted signs that I made using LetraSet (now there's a
>technology that's pretty much been killed by personal computers, LOL).

....When I worked at the _Deadly Texan_ in the mid-80's, when
computer-generated paste-up text was the interim method for getting
the daily out, I was really surprised how quickly some people lost
their "quick fix" skills. One article I did apparently wound up with a
missing period at the end of a sentence(*), and the guys in the press
control room were bitching about having to edit and reprint the
paste-up.

"Uh, guys...you got an X-Acto and some glue?"

"Yeah, why?"

....I proceeded to cut a period from a discarded paste-up, and
corrected the mistake in the space of a minute. Had I the right sized
Koh-I-Noor handy, I could have done it a lot quicker.


(*) The original copy had it, but the fat bimbo who was the proof
editor that night had combined a couple of paragraphs and dropped the
period thru ineptitude. I'd worked with this "thing" on my High School
paper, and never could figure out how she managed to get on Texas U.
staff. That is, until I found out she was the main squeeze of the
sports editor. And here we thought nepotism was confined only to a
certain couple at the _Daily Planet_...


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[OM]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:05:39 -0500, Doug... >
wrote:

>As for the CBS intro music, I too liked the production values they used
>in their coverage introductions. I have always hoped that CBS would do
>an anniversary presentation of Apollo 11, re-using their "MAN ON THE MOON
>-- The Epic Flight of Apollo 11" intro, so I could get it on tape. But,
>alas, no such luck.

....See-BS's opens for A11 I always felt were too "spooky" for what was
going to happen, although I will admit it did predict to some extent
the famous "I'm actually peeing" shot of Aldrin. My favorite one,
however, was A15, which had really nice hand-drawn animation of the
entire mission from launch to landing, showing all the major stages.
The music was also really upbeat, which befitted that mission quite
well.

....Of course, does anyone remember any of the opens for NBC or ABC?
That should tell you something about the quality of their coverage,
especially that of the Jules Boredom Network :-P


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[OM]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:12:04 -0500, "Ralph" >
wrote:

>I remember the 'Early Bird' satellite broadcasts on the evening news.

....Ironically, the only one I remember being made a big deal about it
being a satellite transmission was this one Elvis concert from Hawaii.
The signal was so ****-poor compared to a normal network feed that my
mom kept adjusting the antenna even though we were getting it on
*cable*.


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Dale]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:39:31 GMT, "Michael R. Grabois ... change $ to \"s\""
> wrote:

>>Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
>>TV? ;-)
>
>I did. My mom woke me up and sat me in front of the TV. I was not yet 3 years
>old, so I don't remember it much.
>
>I can also claim to have been in front of the TV for the first episode of the
>original Star Trek, but I was only a month old at the time and I probably had
>other things on my mind.

Geez, my parents wouldn't let me watch Star Trek. I think Nurse Chappel's (sp?)
skirts were judged to be too short or something :)

I'll never forget watching the first steps on the moon. We were on a fishing
trip in a pretty remote part of British Columbia, but my parents made sure we
found a lodge with a TV when the time came. We were the only US people there,
and everybody congratulated us, as if we had anything to do with it ...

It was the CBS coverage, BTW.

Dale

[Doug...]

In article >, "Michael R.
Grabois ... change $ to \"s\"" > says...
>
> <snip>
>
> I can also claim to have been in front of the TV for the first episode of the
> original Star Trek, but I was only a month old at the time and I probably had
> other things on my mind.

I remember watching the first episode of Star Trek -- I was 12 at the
time. It was a very warm early September in central Illinois in 1966,
summerlike, and I came inside from playing just before it started. I
don't think I was even aware it was going to be on until it came on after
whatever I had been watching, but I was REALLY excited by that first
episode ("Man Trap"). It seemed to promise decent science fiction on
television, after Lost in Space had begun to turn mind-numbing.

Of course, if I'm not mistaken, that was a year before The Time Tunnel
came on, and I enjoyed that, too...

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[Dale]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:00:39 -0500, Doug... > wrote:

>I remember watching the first episode of Star Trek -- I was 12 at the
>time.

Geez, you're old, Doug :)

> It was a very warm early September in central Illinois in 1966,
>summerlike, and I came inside from playing just before it started. I
>don't think I was even aware it was going to be on until it came on after
>whatever I had been watching, but I was REALLY excited by that first
>episode ("Man Trap"). It seemed to promise decent science fiction on
>television, after Lost in Space had begun to turn mind-numbing.
>
>Of course, if I'm not mistaken, that was a year before The Time Tunnel
>came on, and I enjoyed that, too...

Did Time Tunnel come on later than that? Sorry, but I just hated that show :)

I gave up watching TV after the season-ending episode of "It's About Time",
in which the cast members realized they were just over a ridge from 20th
century America :)

Dale

I'll start watching TV again when it's 3-D, and everybody is nekked :)

[Doug...]

In article >,
says...
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:00:39 -0500, Doug... > wrote:
>
> >I remember watching the first episode of Star Trek -- I was 12 at the
> >time.
>
> Geez, you're old, Doug :)
>
> > It was a very warm early September in central Illinois in 1966,
> >summerlike, and I came inside from playing just before it started. I
> >don't think I was even aware it was going to be on until it came on after
> >whatever I had been watching, but I was REALLY excited by that first
> >episode ("Man Trap"). It seemed to promise decent science fiction on
> >television, after Lost in Space had begun to turn mind-numbing.
> >
> >Of course, if I'm not mistaken, that was a year before The Time Tunnel
> >came on, and I enjoyed that, too...
>
> Did Time Tunnel come on later than that? Sorry, but I just hated that show :)
>
> I gave up watching TV after the season-ending episode of "It's About Time",
> in which the cast members realized they were just over a ridge from 20th
> century America :)

No, not at all -- the first season of "It's About Time" was indeed set in
the prehistoric era. At the beginning of the second season, they fixed
their space capsule and re-launched it (without a booster, no less) and
*returned* to the 20th century (with stowaways in the form of the
prehistoric family they had been living with). The theme song changed
around totally in the second season, from "It's about two people in the
strangest place" to "It's about five people in the strangest place," with
references to the cavepeople adjusting to modern life. Even the bridge
of the song, which originally tossed out historical events the spacemen
passed on their way back in time, had the events reversed in the second
season theme.

I think I watched a LOT of TV when I was a kid...

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[Doug...]

I'm in the midst of watching my videotape of the Apollo 11 EVA -- I was
out and got home late, so I'm about 40 minutes behind real time. Aldrin
is doing his surface familiarization right now, the camera is still on
the MESA. The surface detail visible through the struts directly to the
south (cross-sun) is really not that bad.

This tape proves that television commentators have always been somewhat
clueless. The astronauts were waiting for their PLSSes to build up ice
on the sublimators, and as soon as the sublimators began working and
their PLSS flags cleared (as displayed on their RCUs), they announced
that their windows had cleared. The NBC commentator (not Brinkley or
McGee, the third one) then stated authoritatively, "Well, they can now
see clearly out from their spacesuits!"

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[OM]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 03:49:01 GMT, Doug... > wrote:

>No, not at all -- the first season of "It's About Time" was indeed set in
>the prehistoric era. At the beginning of the second season, they fixed
>their space capsule and re-launched it (without a booster, no less) and
>*returned* to the 20th century (with stowaways in the form of the
>prehistoric family they had been living with). The theme song changed
>around totally in the second season, from "It's about two people in the
>strangest place" to "It's about five people in the strangest place," with
>references to the cavepeople adjusting to modern life. Even the bridge
>of the song, which originally tossed out historical events the spacemen
>passed on their way back in time, had the events reversed in the second
>season theme.

....Actually, that's not *quite* right. "It's About Time" had a
situational change midway through it's only season - there weren't no
"second season", McGee. When the two Astros came back to the 20th
Century, they brought back Joe E. "Ooh! Ooh!" Ross and Imogene Coca
with them as the cave couple. It was a last-ditch effort by Sherwood
Schwartz to save the series, and came about after watching an episode
of "The Flintstones" and wondered what would happen if Fred & Barney
actually came to the 20th Century, and whether they could adapt to the
technological analogs to their dino-powered contraptions.

....As for "Time Tunnel", it premiered on 9/6/1966, the same year and
week as "Star Trek" did. Some really good info on the series and why
it got canned after being the only series to have any real decent
ratings on ABC for the 66-67 season can be found at

http://www.tvparty.com/tunnel.html

....Note the contributor on the left-hand sidebar :-)


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Doug...]

In article >,
om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org says...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 03:49:01 GMT, Doug... > wrote:
>
> >No, not at all -- the first season of "It's About Time" was indeed set in
> >the prehistoric era. At the beginning of the second season, they fixed
> >their space capsule and re-launched it (without a booster, no less) and
> >*returned* to the 20th century (with stowaways in the form of the
> >prehistoric family they had been living with). The theme song changed
> >around totally in the second season, from "It's about two people in the
> >strangest place" to "It's about five people in the strangest place," with
> >references to the cavepeople adjusting to modern life. Even the bridge
> >of the song, which originally tossed out historical events the spacemen
> >passed on their way back in time, had the events reversed in the second
> >season theme.
>
> ...Actually, that's not *quite* right. "It's About Time" had a
> situational change midway through it's only season - there weren't no
> "second season", McGee. When the two Astros came back to the 20th
> Century, they brought back Joe E. "Ooh! Ooh!" Ross and Imogene Coca
> with them as the cave couple. It was a last-ditch effort by Sherwood
> Schwartz to save the series, and came about after watching an episode
> of "The Flintstones" and wondered what would happen if Fred & Barney
> actually came to the 20th Century, and whether they could adapt to the
> technological analogs to their dino-powered contraptions.

Halfway through the first and only season, eh? Well, I guess it deserved
its one-season-wonder status, as much as "Mr. Terrific" did. However, I
shall always remember "Captain Nice" (featuring William Daniels in his
first major TV role) fondly. I believe both of those ran during the 1965
season, though that's just a vagrant memory.

> ...As for "Time Tunnel", it premiered on 9/6/1966, the same year and
> week as "Star Trek" did. Some really good info on the series and why
> it got canned after being the only series to have any real decent
> ratings on ABC for the 66-67 season can be found at
>
> http://www.tvparty.com/tunnel.html
>
> ...Note the contributor on the left-hand sidebar :-)

Good info on the Time Tunnel! Yep, the scripts did suffer as the year
went on, but that was a really good set they had. And the pseudo-science
was great. On of my favorite Time Tunnel episodes found Tony and Doug
landing back in the Time Tunnel -- but it was a Nazi Time Tunnel that had
been built in 1943!

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[OM]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 03:58:32 GMT, Doug, the ******* we're all jealous
of right now because he has a copy of NBC's A11 coverage from A&E's
1989 rebroadcast > wrote:

>I'm in the midst of watching my videotape of the Apollo 11 EVA -- I was
>out and got home late, so I'm about 40 minutes behind real time.

....I'm having to suffice with reading the ALSJ entry while the E2M
episode is playing in the background. I'd really be a dick and hope
your VCR eats your tape, but I'm saving that for *after* you find
someone to cap the coverage first :-P :-P


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Doug...]

In article >,
om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org says...
>
> <snip>
>
> ...Irwin liked getting people and their ships lost on a "castaway"
> theme. To this day, I'm still surprised that the Seaview didn't
> suddenly wind up on an alien world during one of its seasons...oh,
> wait. Spielberg did that with "SeaQuest", didn't he? :-P

In reference to the Time Tunnel portion I snipped, I have a strong memory
of a Nazi tunnel... maybe I've done flipped between similar alternate
dimensions again... *sigh*...

As for the Seaview being sent to an alien planet, a Seaview-launched
space capsule *did* go to Venus once, IIRC, and somehow a couple of the
Seaview crew ended up going, too, on the backup capsule. That was a
strange episode...

But yes, Irwin Allen loved sparks, didn't he?

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[OM]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 05:37:16 GMT, Doug... > wrote:

>Good info on the Time Tunnel! Yep, the scripts did suffer as the year
>went on, but that was a really good set they had. And the pseudo-science
>was great. On of my favorite Time Tunnel episodes found Tony and Doug
>landing back in the Time Tunnel -- but it was a Nazi Time Tunnel that had
>been built in 1943!

....Actually, it was a Red Chinese Time Tunnel, built in the 50's.

....One other tidbit that never really got explored was this: the
forced perspective of the set was supposed to imply that the Tunnel
went back about a *mile*, and that the further you went down the
tunnel, the further you went back. However, since we're dealing with a
set that tapers as it goes back, you got back about 20', the
pyrotechnics would go off, and the actor would duck and cover out the
side of the Tunnel. Add to this the original plan was to have the
actors step out the other end of the Tunnel into the time period in
which they went to, but during developement of the series it was
decided to have Doug (orignally Peter) and Tony get lost instead of
sending them on mission after mission. The Red Chinese episode is the
closest they got to that concept, as the two were actually sent to
that time period to investigate whether a duplicate Tunnel had
actually been built.

....Irwin liked getting people and their ships lost on a "castaway"
theme. To this day, I'm still surprised that the Seaview didn't
suddenly wind up on an alien world during one of its seasons...oh,
wait. Spielberg did that with "SeaQuest", didn't he? :-P


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[OM]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:47:52 -0500, Doug... >
wrote:

>In reference to the Time Tunnel portion I snipped, I have a strong memory
>of a Nazi tunnel... maybe I've done flipped between similar alternate
>dimensions again... *sigh*...

....Yeah, that same one where it ran for four seasons, "Star Trek" ran
for five, and "Battlestar Ponderosa" ran for 15 before they found
Earth.

Oh, and Seinfeld never had a career, either.

>As for the Seaview being sent to an alien planet, a Seaview-launched
>space capsule *did* go to Venus once, IIRC, and somehow a couple of the
>Seaview crew ended up going, too, on the backup capsule. That was a
>strange episode...

....After the ratings went through the roof over the first "giant
monster attacks Seaview" episode, they *all* went strange.

>But yes, Irwin Allen loved sparks, didn't he?

....Run some high voltage through some Brillo pads and sparks *will*
fly. Provided you get the pads that don't have the soap imbedded.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Dale]

Thanks, Doug and OM, for refreshing my very fuzzy memories
of "It's About Time" :)

I was a big fan of Captain Nice. That was 1965? Geez, I'm getting
old.

Dale

Being on usenet is finally starting to pay off :)

[OM]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 03:37:43 -0700, Dale > wrote:

>I was a big fan of Captain Nice. That was 1965? Geez, I'm getting
>old.

....Nope. 1966 again. Both "Captain Nice" and "Mr. Terriffic" were
attempts to cash in on the "Batman" craze that exploded in March of
that year. It's also the reason that so many supehero cartoons showed
up over the next two seasons on Saturday mornings.

....It's sort of ironic that we bring this up, even if it is off-topic
around here(*). TV Land aired a bunch of "Batman" episodes, all
centered around Julie Newmar as the Catwoman. It's interesting to
watch how the show deteriorated over three seasons - well, two and a
half, considering "Batman" was actually a mid-season replacement
series. Where it deteriorated was that the villains became a bit less
dibolical, and both they and their henchmen quit accidentally dying as
the series went on. In addition, as time went on, more and more
episodes were shot on a set as opposed to location shooting to cut
costs. People notice things like that, sometimes subconciously, and
what ABC failed to realize is that this had a more pronounced effect
upon "Batman" because it was -still- an *action* show despite the
humor and the camp. Action shows require exterior settings from time
to time to keep the action fresh. Otherwise, it becomes a "bottle"
show, and gets stale.

....IMHO, the same "Bat-Camp" formula could work today, if tweaked a
little more towards the biting satire modern audences prefer. "Return
to the Batcave" would have been a great springboard for this, but
obviously nobody at See-BS has the forsight to acknowledge this. Guess
they were too busy doing miniseries on Hitler :-P

(*) But still a lot more enjoyable than listening to the Maxson trash
and the fake Alan Erskine(s) post their blatherings, natch.
OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Kevin Willoughby]

OM said:
> ...IMHO, the same "Bat-Camp" formula could work today, if tweaked a
> little more towards the biting satire modern audences prefer.

Something like the current Charlie's Angel's or She Spies?
--
Kevin Willoughby

We'd spend the remaining time trying to fix the engine.
-- Neil Armstrong

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
Kevin Willoughby > writes:
> OM said:
>> ...IMHO, the same "Bat-Camp" formula could work today, if tweaked a
>> little more towards the biting satire modern audences prefer.
>
> Something like the current Charlie's Angel's or She Spies?

I always thought "The Tick" was pretty danged good. That should fit
the bill.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Gordon Davie]

Rusty B wrote:

> Okay. How many of you young whippersnapers watched Apollo 11 live on
> TV? ;-)

<raises hand>

I watched the launch and landing live, but not the Moonwalk itself - it came
on at three in the morning UK time and I was only eleven. My parents slept
in a fold-out bed settee in the living room and my dad had to get up at six
in the morning to go to work, so even though there was no school I wasn't
allowed to stay up.

I'll forgive them any year now.

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God"

[David Lesher]

I remember watching Echo go by...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Jonathan Silverlight]

In message >, David Lesher
> writes
>
>
>I remember watching Echo go by...
>
At the time, didn't people say that piece of US technology had been seen
by more people than any other? The propaganda value alone means that it
paid for itself.
--
"Roads in space for rockets to travel....four-dimensional roads, curving with
relativity"
Mail to jsilverlight AT merseia.fsnet.co.uk is welcome.
Or visit Jonathan's Space Site http://www.merseia.fsnet.co.uk

[[email protected]]

"Ralph" > wrote in message >...
> But, still remember
> Cronkite bitching about the costs for Apollo 17, which surprised me for I
> thought him to be a major supporter for manned spaceflight.
>
>
>
walter "crankcase" has always been a screaming liberal. read his book.