Re: Flag From Apollo 11 Had a Glitch

[Jay Windley]

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
| Saw this on ABCNews.com. Thought it might be of interest:
|
| http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/US/moonflag030716.html
|
| Re: the final sentence, I think it fell over when they took off :)

I recall Aldrin saying later it fell over during the RCS hot-fire test, long
before takeoff. But it did fall over, one way or another.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

[Doug...]

In article >,
says...
>
> "Dale" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Saw this on ABCNews.com. Thought it might be of interest:
> |
> | http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/US/moonflag030716.html
> |
> | Re: the final sentence, I think it fell over when they took off :)
>
> I recall Aldrin saying later it fell over during the RCS hot-fire test, long
> before takeoff. But it did fall over, one way or another.

Actually, we have documentary evidence that at least two of the flags
deployed on the moon fell over. We know from Aldrin's commentary that
Apollo 11's flag blew over during the RCS hot fire. We also know from
the TV camera on Apollo 16's Rover that their flag blew over, although
the telescoping rod dug itself into the ground point-first, leaving the
staff at a steep angle (the staff and the telescoping rod making the two
upper sides of a triangle, the bottom side of which was the lunar
surface). That flag, at last observation (just after liftoff), is about
two-thirds off the ground, with the outside bottom corner lying on the
ground.

We ought to be able to determine the dispositions of the flags at the
Apollo 15 and 17 landing sites, and I seem to recall that at least the
Apollo 17 flag remained standing. The Apollo 14 flag remained standing,
since we have the ascent photography from the cabin window to show that,
while it waved energetically in the ascent plume, the staff stayed
relatively upright (perhaps because it was driven into the ground with a
hammer). I don't recall whether Conrad or Bean mentioned the disposition
of their flag, and I don't think their ascent film shows it. I know the
Apollo 12 RCS hotfire blew over their erectable S-band antenna (as did
Apollo 14's), but I've never seen any reports on what the hot fire or the
ascent did to their flag.

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[Hallerb]

>
>Apollo 14's), but I've never seen any reports on what the hot fire or the
>ascent did to their flag.

Wonder if theres anything left of the flags fabric after all these years?

Pushed over perhaps covered by dirt I wonder if it would survive longer?

[Jay Windley]

"Hallerb" > wrote in message
...
|
| Wonder if theres anything left of the flags fabric after
| all these years?

I wouldn't think so. UV does a real number on nylon. The dyes would be
shot too, even if the fabric stayed intact.

| Pushed over perhaps covered by dirt I wonder if it would
| survive longer?

I think so, except you'd need a thick enough layer of dust to keep off the
sun. I don't think it got much from the ascent stage plume.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

[JGDeRuvo]

I just love it when reporters are so in love with their writing that
they forget to check facts!


"Jay Windley" > wrote in message >...
> "Dale" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Saw this on ABCNews.com. Thought it might be of interest:
> |
> | http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/US/moonflag030716.html
> |
> | Re: the final sentence, I think it fell over when they took off :)
>
> I recall Aldrin saying later it fell over during the RCS hot-fire test, long
> before takeoff. But it did fall over, one way or another.

[Kent Betts]

On some documentaries, the film makers substitute the footage of a later mission
for the Eagle ascent, showing the flag staying in place, which helps keep the
question going about the flag going.

[Harald Kucharek]

"Kent Betts" > wrote in message >...
> On some documentaries, the film makers substitute the footage of a later mission
> for the Eagle ascent, showing the flag staying in place, which helps keep the
> question going about the flag going.

Yeah, I love these "documentaries" where an Apollo mission goes as
following:
First, Armstrong lands Eagle and makes his small step. Then we have a
still of Conrad or Bean next to Surveyor III. Later, Shepard swings
his golf club, followed by Scott's hammer and feather drop and John
Young's car race. Finally we see Gene Cernan hopping and singing
before the launch back to orbit.
The only fun with such stuff is to be able to identify which bit is
which and be quick enough to tell your (annoyed?) audience in front of
the telly what they really see.

[Rusty Barton]

On 18 Jul 2003 02:48:21 -0700, (Harald Kucharek)
wrote:

>"Kent Betts" > wrote in message >...
>> On some documentaries, the film makers substitute the footage of a later mission
>> for the Eagle ascent, showing the flag staying in place, which helps keep the
>> question going about the flag going.
>
>Yeah, I love these "documentaries" where an Apollo mission goes as
>following:
>First, Armstrong lands Eagle and makes his small step. Then we have a
>still of Conrad or Bean next to Surveyor III. Later, Shepard swings
>his golf club, followed by Scott's hammer and feather drop and John
>Young's car race. Finally we see Gene Cernan hopping and singing
>before the launch back to orbit.
>The only fun with such stuff is to be able to identify which bit is
>which and be quick enough to tell your (annoyed?) audience in front of
>the telly what they really see.


This happened before the moon landing, also. Watch some of the old
movies from the 50's through 70's. While showing a single rocket
launch, they would splice footage from Atlas, Thor, V-2's, Jupiters,
and Titans together for that one launch. It's really funny to watch.



--
Rusty Barton - Antelope, California |"Every so often, I like to
| stick my head out the window,
| look up, and smile for the
| satellite picture."-Steven Wright

[Kent Betts]

"Rusty Barton"
> This happened before the moon landing, also. Watch some of the old
> movies from the 50's through 70's. While showing a single rocket
> launch, they would splice footage from Atlas, Thor, V-2's, Jupiters,
> and Titans together for that one launch. It's really funny to watch.

HAhaha.......yeah, I think I saw that flick once.

At any rate, though it wasn't Apollo 11, there is a film clip of the flag
blowing in tocket exhaust of the ascent stage, and the flag pole stays put.
Amazing.

[Doug...]

In article >,
says...
> "Rusty Barton"
> > This happened before the moon landing, also. Watch some of the old
> > movies from the 50's through 70's. While showing a single rocket
> > launch, they would splice footage from Atlas, Thor, V-2's, Jupiters,
> > and Titans together for that one launch. It's really funny to watch.
>
> HAhaha.......yeah, I think I saw that flick once.
>
> At any rate, though it wasn't Apollo 11, there is a film clip of the flag
> blowing in tocket exhaust of the ascent stage, and the flag pole stays put.
> Amazing.

Yep -- that was from Apollo 14.

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |