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#81
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"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message
... Painius to John Boy: As much as i respect your ideas, your posts do sometimes indicate that you have a difficult time seeing the forest for the trees. And this post of yours tells me why... I would res[ect his ideas too, if he HAD any ideas. So far all he's been able to present is rote recitation and some semi-good natured snottiness. oc The task you set for me is impossible to perform to your satisfaction. First off, I would not presume to be able to come up with a truly original explanation of why c is constant. The standard explanation are quite sufficient for me. I do not understand why they are insufficient for you. Secondly, if I did manage to come up with something original, judging from past experience, you would simply dismiss it out of hand as being contrived from within the "Void Space Para-dig-um" Why on Earth should I even attempt to carry on a civil conversation with you??? For now I am quite content to poke you with a stick from the sidelines every now and again. |
#82
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"Painius" wrote in message
... Not an attack, John, just an observation... There are some instances where 1+1= something other than 2. And these are valid examples where 1+1=2 does not "hold." Well I don't know about that, but under the assumption that we are using "1+1" as an analogy for "other things" it will never be the case that "1+1=2" and "1+1=/=2" both hold in the same self consistent system. And we are all "Big Picture" people, aren't we John? After all, one molecule of H2O would go unnoticed by us, while an ocean is hard to miss. As much as i respect your ideas, your posts do sometimes indicate that you have a difficult time seeing the forest for the trees. And this post of yours tells me why... I would argue that Bill (and maybe you to a certain extent) are completely ignoring the trees. You have no use for forests, You only like the trees, One tree on fire is not so bad, Blazing forests? tragedies. -- happy days and... starry starry nights! Painius |
#83
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From JB (John Boy)
I would not presume to be able to come up with a truly original explanation of why c is constant. Well then brainiac, maybe you can explain the literal mechanism of gravity under the void-space para-dijjum (same invitation still extends to OG). Why on Earth should I even attempt to carry on a civil conversation with you??? Beats me. For now I am quite content to poke you with a stick from the sidelines every now and again. Well then expect to get poked back every now and then. oc |
#84
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Hi oc and Painius. Maybe the blackhole is showing us that the graviton
is a particle that goes faster than the photon.(Newton would like that) We don't have any idea of the graviton's speed. Maybe its field and force wave only goes from equator to its poles. Much like the Earth's magnetisim goes from pole to pole. How far the blackhole's gravity wave goes out would come under the inverse square law as to its strength from points away from its center. I'm sorry oc I can't see the energy of space creating the push force that ends up pushing gravitons back into the interior of a blackhole. A French Astronomer went with this theory about 200 years ago,and had to give it up. The reason was it created more problems than it solved. It is little better than GR curved space. Quantum gravity tied into the string theory are two closer to reality(my thoughts) Bert |
#85
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Painius wrote:
"Odysseus" wrote... in message ... Painius wrote: Whenever i think this small, i remember back when long ago i read about how there is sooo much space between a nucleus and its accompanying electrons. And sooo much space between atoms, and how "ghostly" reality seems to be. And i try and try, but i can't even *imagine* what this "space" is they're talking about. When i was a kid i just thought it was "air." But *that* can't be. So what is it? Nothing? (...and what the heck is *that*?) g see what you get for boggling my meager mind? Even Einstein found the idea of "action at a distance" to be "spooky". Even more counterintuitive (to my at-least-as-meagre mind, at least) is the notion of space being quantized into 'bits of nothing' of finite size. "Space between a nucleus and electrons"? Your making it seem like an electron is a particle going around, its not. Its a wave guided by pilot waves, it has a most probable location, but its not guaranteed and is all probabilistic. Also you are talking about such a vast area, but remember in finite structure that the nucleus has an EM field, the electron has an EM field (because of its movement) and the elctrons with eachother have an EM field. Its not as "empty" as you think. Space is pretty full of particles of all kinds The "Space" between stars is pretty immaginable when you think about it. Pluto's orbit is 11892000000 km in diameter, so 11892000000000 meters. Light travels at 2.997E8m/s in a vaccume (lets assume vaccume) so it crosses the whole pluto diameter in orbit at 39 666.4443 light-seconds, or 0.459102365 days. 39666.4443 light seconds is 0.00125698062 light years. Alpha Centauri is what 4Lyr away? That means its 3175.0915339 times farther away then the diameter of pluto. I used google for the calculations so like "x years in days" etc. I am not too sure about its precision but i could do the calculations with errors if you want, or the validity of it (since i only have 4 hours sleep). But thats roughly the distance between us and alpha centauri. needless to say, for the time being, we aint goin' nowhere. -- Odysseus Sounds as if you tend to think of space as being made of something rather than being nothing. What do *you* think space is? happy days and... starry starry nights! |
#86
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G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
Hi oc and Painius. Maybe the blackhole is showing us that the graviton is a particle that goes faster than the photon. C is the fastest speed in the universe. photon or no photon. The only thing that goes faster than light are pilot waves which are complex-domain and aren't observable in our universe. I do whole heartedly believe that the graviton is a particle. Now if we could only devise an experiment that would make gravitons interfere . Can anyone suggest one? I need bonus points for my modern physics course . From what i hear gravitrons are thought to have spin of 2, which would mean a symmetric wave func. (Newton would like that) I think any physicist will tell you that particles can't go faster than c in the real domain. We don't have any idea of the graviton's speed. Maybe its field and force wave only goes from equator to its poles. Much like the Earth's magnetisim goes from pole to pole. How far the blackhole's gravity wave goes out would come under the inverse square law as to its strength from points away from its center. I would think that in a black hole's event horizon, quantum effects would be more pronounced, especially quantization of gravity which is totally unobservable by us but if i remember in class we calculated it to be 1E-12m or the like. But i'me not a phisycist, i just have to take modern physics courses for school. I'm sorry oc I can't see the energy of space creating the push force that ends up pushing gravitons back into the interior of a blackhole. A French Astronomer went with this theory about 200 years ago,and had to give it up. The reason was it created more problems than it solved. It is little better than GR curved space. Quantum gravity tied into the string theory are two closer to reality(my thoughts) Bert I whole heartedly agree, though i'me sceptical about string theory (or "M-theory" to be more precise since there are like 4 string theories, and one big theory containing all of them called M-theory. If i remember correctly. The 11 possible dimensions kinda freak me out But it is totally possible, and maby just unobservable. Remember 100 years ago the idea of an electron tunelling through an engergy barrier was totally rediculous, Now we design with this in mind, low enough that me little Software Engineering undergrad sees it in his physics courses. Anyway my 0.02$ CAD. |
#87
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From Bert:
I'm sorry.. I can't see the energy of space creating the push force that ends up pushing gravitons back into the interior of a blackhole. Well Bert, under the flowing-space model and its 'push force', you don't need any "gravitons" (or any other 'magical messengers' for that matter). oc =A0 =A0 =A0 |
#88
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Hi Yoyoma Seems the M-theory put life back into the string theory. As
Brian Greene puts it it unites the previous five superstring theories within a single overarching framework. M-theory to work it has to have eleven spacetime dimensions. I wonder how many people understand how these dimensions are used. I know Edward Witten understands it. B ert |
#89
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Painius wrote:
Sounds as if you tend to think of space as being made of something rather than being nothing. What do *you* think space is? To paraphrase a famous remark about time, it's what keeps everything from being in the same place. -- Odysseus |
#90
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G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
Hi Yoyoma Seems the M-theory put life back into the string theory. As Brian Greene puts it it unites the previous five superstring theories within a single overarching framework. M-theory to work it has to have eleven spacetime dimensions. I wonder how many people understand how these dimensions are used. I know Edward Witten understands it. B ert From what i understand its just because they can't factor out some terms so they become dimensions. We all heard it like "Demensional equivelence" when you have like for example schrodigner's eqn (where Y = phi, hbar = h bar, h/2pi, and d for simplicity is the partial "del" and U(x,y,z,t) is the function for potential energy) if Y(x,y,z,t) would be the position of the wave in 4d, the equation is (i*hbar)dY/dt = (-hbar²/2m)(d²Y/dx² + d²Y/dy² + d²Y/dz² ) + U(x,y,z,t) Now if you are expecint U(x,y,z,t) but when solving the PDE you end up having a Right-hand term that depends on U(x,y,z,t,a) and a PE that depends on U(x,y,z,t,a) pretty good chance that you are missing a dimension. because Y(x,y,z,t) != Y(x,y,z,t,a) anyway thats my understanding of it anyway. Some of the dimensions can be curbed in on themselves from what i understand, they could also be very, very, very small like i heard you would see the difference at like 0.05 Angstroms. Pretty small indeed. Anyway thats just waht i heard, like i said. I'me not a physics major this is only my 2nd university physics course hehehe (ok i did 2 in college but bleh). They throw us into a full year of modern physics as a cruel way of making us suffer i think hihihi. |
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