A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Policy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 12th 16, 09:37 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Non Newtonian Propulsion
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)



For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/

https://www.reddit.com/r/EmDrive/com...of_the_law_of/
Ads
  #2  
Old October 13th 16, 01:58 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Sylvia Else
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,063
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/


It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally negating the
effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or that the
change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried off as a result of
a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate electromagnetic
waves means that it requires a constant input of power.

Sylvia.
  #3  
Old October 16th 16, 10:32 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Non Newtonian Propulsion
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Il giorno giovedì 13 ottobre 2016 02:58:23 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha scritto:
On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/


It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally negating the
effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or that the
change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried off as a result of
a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate electromagnetic
waves means that it requires a constant input of power.

Sylvia.


If one assumes that the principle of action and reaction can be overcome in electrodynamics it must accept the consequences also on the law of inertia..
And the change of the law of inertia is a great opportunity to shorten the time of interstellar travel

E.Laureti




  #4  
Old October 16th 16, 10:39 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Rob[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno giovedì 13 ottobre 2016 02:58:23 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha scritto:
On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/


It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally negating the
effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or that the
change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried off as a result of
a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate electromagnetic
waves means that it requires a constant input of power.

Sylvia.


If one assumes that the principle of action and reaction can be overcome in electrodynamics it must accept the consequences also on the law of inertia.
And the change of the law of inertia is a great opportunity to shorten the time of interstellar travel

E.Laureti


Let's wait and see until they can provide an actually working lab
demonstration of the principle. "we tried it with a microwave but
we blew our microwave" does not sound like a very convincing attempt,
to the contrary: it is what could have been expected by those who do
not believe in all this.
  #5  
Old October 16th 16, 11:11 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Non Newtonian Propulsion
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Il giorno domenica 16 ottobre 2016 11:39:09 UTC+2, Rob ha scritto:
Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno giovedì 13 ottobre 2016 02:58:23 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha scritto:
On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/


It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally negating the
effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or that the
change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried off as a result of
a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate electromagnetic
waves means that it requires a constant input of power.

Sylvia.


If one assumes that the principle of action and reaction can be overcome in electrodynamics it must accept the consequences also on the law of inertia.
And the change of the law of inertia is a great opportunity to shorten the time of interstellar travel

E.Laureti


Let's wait and see until they can provide an actually working lab
demonstration of the principle. "we tried it with a microwave but
we blew our microwave" does not sound like a very convincing attempt,
to the contrary: it is what could have been expected by those who do
not believe in all this.



I say you only this:

1) It is right that everything passes first by a valid and convincing evidence of breach of the principle of action and reaction

2) When it is made public the pnn know-how everyone will be convinced by itself theoretically before than experimentally and anyone who has a lab of electrodynamics and wants the start of a new astronautica will try to redo experimentally what I'm doing since 2001

E.Laureti


  #6  
Old October 16th 16, 11:18 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Rob[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno domenica 16 ottobre 2016 11:39:09 UTC+2, Rob ha scritto:
Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno giovedì 13 ottobre 2016 02:58:23 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha scritto:
On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/


It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally negating the
effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or that the
change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried off as a result of
a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate electromagnetic
waves means that it requires a constant input of power.

Sylvia.

If one assumes that the principle of action and reaction can be overcome in electrodynamics it must accept the consequences also on the law of inertia.
And the change of the law of inertia is a great opportunity to shorten the time of interstellar travel

E.Laureti


Let's wait and see until they can provide an actually working lab
demonstration of the principle. "we tried it with a microwave but
we blew our microwave" does not sound like a very convincing attempt,
to the contrary: it is what could have been expected by those who do
not believe in all this.



I say you only this:

1) It is right that everything passes first by a valid and convincing evidence of breach of the principle of action and reaction

2) When it is made public the pnn know-how everyone will be convinced by itself theoretically before than experimentally and anyone who has a lab of electrodynamics and wants the start of a new astronautica will try to redo experimentally what I'm doing since 2001

E.Laureti


I don't want to withhold you from doing experiments but I do not believe
in those that have a controversial theory and see their experiments fail
all the time, then blame it on "not enough resources" instead of an error
in their theory.

Futhermore, I think even when a relativistic effect could be exploited
(like the conversion of energy to mass), it should always be taken into
account that for a drive to be useful, it has to be generating enough
force relative to the equipment mass and energy consumption to yield
a noticable accelleration. When a 50kg experiment taking a kilowatt
of power results in a force that is buried in the noise of supporting
the weight of the equipment, it is not a useful drive system.
  #7  
Old October 17th 16, 01:57 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Sylvia Else
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,063
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On 16/10/2016 8:32 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno giovedì 13 ottobre 2016 02:58:23 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha scritto:
On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/


It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally negating the
effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or that the
change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried off as a result of
a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate electromagnetic
waves means that it requires a constant input of power.

Sylvia.


If one assumes that the principle of action and reaction can be overcome in electrodynamics it must accept the consequences also on the law of inertia.
And the change of the law of inertia is a great opportunity to shorten the time of interstellar travel

E.Laureti


I don't know why one would make such an assumption, given the lack of
experimental evidence to support it.

It should also be noted that any anisotropic radiator experiences a net
force, completely in accordance with current theory. To be compelling,
an experiment has to show a force in excess of that that would be
produced by radiation for a given power input.

Sylvia.

  #8  
Old October 17th 16, 10:09 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Non Newtonian Propulsion
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Il giorno lunedì 17 ottobre 2016 02:57:05 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha scritto:
On 16/10/2016 8:32 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno giovedì 13 ottobre 2016 02:58:23 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha scritto:
On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/


It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally negating the
effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or that the
change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried off as a result of
a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate electromagnetic
waves means that it requires a constant input of power.

Sylvia.


If one assumes that the principle of action and reaction can be overcome in electrodynamics it must accept the consequences also on the law of inertia.
And the change of the law of inertia is a great opportunity to shorten the time of interstellar travel

E.Laureti


I don't know why one would make such an assumption, given the lack of
experimental evidence to support it.

It should also be noted that any anisotropic radiator experiences a net
force, completely in accordance with current theory. To be compelling,
an experiment has to show a force in excess of that that would be
produced by radiation for a given power input.

Sylvia.


The essence of the problem is that in the electrodynamic principle of action and reaction does not make sense to theoretical level. As it says W. Moretti in www.asps.it/azione.htm

"Now in electrodynamics if the two bodies are charged, because of the delay effect you mention due to the mediation of the electromagnetic field, the third principle as I have set out above is not the case. The EM field can not 'be considered a body for various reasons (not even in the continuous theory mainly because 'does not define a field of speed' ...) for which the third principle can not 'even be formulated for the system charges + EM field. “


Unfortunately many physical books ignore this thing

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...orbital-tests/

  #9  
Old October 18th 16, 04:44 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Sylvia Else
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,063
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On 17/10/2016 8:09 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno lunedì 17 ottobre 2016 02:57:05 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha
scritto:
On 16/10/2016 8:32 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Il giorno giovedì 13 ottobre 2016 02:58:23 UTC+2, Sylvia Else ha
scritto:
On 12/10/2016 7:37 PM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change
of the first law of newtonian inertia and for the fact that
is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/




It conveniently assumes that it's possible to change the charges on such
a time-scale without the resulting magnetic fields totally
negating the effect.

A full analysis will show either that there's no net force, or
that the change in momentum is matched by the momentum carried
off as a result of a net radiation of electromagnetic waves in
the opposite direction.

Oh, and the fact that this thing will inevitably radiate
electromagnetic waves means that it requires a constant input
of power.

Sylvia.

If one assumes that the principle of action and reaction can be
overcome in electrodynamics it must accept the consequences also
on the law of inertia. And the change of the law of inertia is a
great opportunity to shorten the time of interstellar travel

E.Laureti


I don't know why one would make such an assumption, given the lack
of experimental evidence to support it.

It should also be noted that any anisotropic radiator experiences a
net force, completely in accordance with current theory. To be
compelling, an experiment has to show a force in excess of that
that would be produced by radiation for a given power input.

Sylvia.


The essence of the problem is that in the electrodynamic principle of
action and reaction does not make sense to theoretical level. As it
says W. Moretti in www.asps.it/azione.htm

"Now in electrodynamics if the two bodies are charged, because of the
delay effect you mention due to the mediation of the electromagnetic
field, the third principle as I have set out above is not the case.
The EM field can not 'be considered a body for various reasons (not
even in the continuous theory mainly because 'does not define a field
of speed' ...) for which the third principle can not 'even be
formulated for the system charges + EM field. “



This takes us back to the assumption that it's possible to charge the
bodies without thereby having a current which creates a magnetic field.
If you assume the impossible, then all bets are off.

Sylvia.


  #10  
Old October 18th 16, 03:35 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,491
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On 10/12/2016 4:37 AM, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:


For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/

https://www.reddit.com/r/EmDrive/com...of_the_law_of/

Utter non-sense. Learn some EM theory. There is no force "delay", the
'B' component acts on the EM field in its presence. As the field weakens
so does the force. There is no delayed force propagating to the protons
of 'A', If you tuned and tuned all day you could produce standing waves
between the two, but that's about it. If this worked as described you
could easily demonstrate the ability to make the elements of any dipole
antenna wave around simply by tuning the transmitter. I offer proof that
this is wrong by contradiction.

Junk.

As for EM Drive....

Before we resort to that let's wait for the experimental results to come
back from those experiments soon to take place using Mu metals*.

At the present time it's looking quite possible that this device is not
much more that a *really* expensive electrically powered magnetic
compass. In other words, the extremely weak forces generated may not be
present in deep space w/o the Earth's geomagnetic field to help out.

The only other theory currently extant is that this device is drawing
(somehow) on quantum vacuum energy. Shawyer's conception of it deriving
its propulsive force strictly via SR mechanics has been thoroughly
debunked. Without the QVE theory it violates conservation of momentum.
And with a thrust superior to that of a photon rocket it violates
conservation of energy as well (i.e. it becomes a perpetual motion
machine when used to drive a generator). I won't provide the cites, look
them up yourself (Google).

Dave

*Although why no one has tried changing thrust directions using far
easier to obtain or make Helmholtz coils is beyond me. Maybe I should
ping the forums on that...

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moments of Inertia and the Shape of Continents and Landmasses on Earth Nico V Amateur Astronomy 10 July 3rd 12 07:31 PM
Moments of Inertia and the Shape of Continents and Landmasses on Earth Nico V Misc 5 May 31st 12 02:07 PM
Moments of Inertia and the Shape of Continents and Landmasses on Earth Nico V Astronomy Misc 0 May 28th 12 07:56 PM
Earth's Axis Slipping: Earth's Revolution Will Change: You Need To Find Another Planet To Live On USS Andromeda Misc 1 July 2nd 08 11:59 AM
Spinning creates Inertia,and Inertia is Used by nature to BalanceGrav G=EMC^2 Glazier Misc 1 December 3rd 06 05:25 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.