A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Policy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old November 26th 16, 08:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Rob[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

David Spain wrote:
On 11/24/2016 12:43 PM, Rob wrote:
Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
Do you know if it exist the project to test emdrive in freespace near the earth?


http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...-reactionless/

Of course such a test is completely meaningless, but still...


I would admit the (small) possibility of using EmDrive for satellite
station keeping in orbits that are within the influence of a planet with
a significant (Geo/Jovi/etc)centric* magnetic field


There is no need to prove that an electric current can result in a
force when applied within a magnetic field. And when the EmDrive is
demonstrated within the magnetic field of the earth, it has to be proven
that it is not this effect.
  #42  
Old November 27th 16, 04:11 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...
I'm still betting this thing is just a lame excuse for a photon emitter.
All those microwaves bouncing around in that metal chamber has to
produce heat that goes somewhere. If the heat is radiated away in a
non-uniform way, it would produce a very small net thrust due to the
emission of photons in the infrared range (and possibly other ranges).


That's my guess. I keep seeing in other places, "Will the EM drive prove
Physics wrong?" or variations on that.

I'll put my money on physics not changing.


I'd like to see them take the same amount of energy put into this thing
and instead stick it into the most efficient light emitters we've got
and focus all the light in one direction. Then compare the results.

Jeff


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #43  
Old November 28th 16, 06:50 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,901
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On 11/26/2016 10:11 PM, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:
"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...
I'm still betting this thing is just a lame excuse for a photon emitter.
All those microwaves bouncing around in that metal chamber has to
produce heat that goes somewhere. If the heat is radiated away in a
non-uniform way, it would produce a very small net thrust due to the
emission of photons in the infrared range (and possibly other ranges).


That's my guess. I keep seeing in other places, "Will the EM drive prove
Physics wrong?" or variations on that.

Me either. But the forces claimed are too high for photon emission.
Either directly as a photon rocket or indirectly via asymmetric photon
emission (ie infra-red emissions due to heating). Also the force curves
don't follow the slowly decreasing saw tooth's you'd expect to see due
to slow decay cooling. They are abrupt square waves that closely track
the applied power.

I still believe it is interacting with an encompassing magnetic field.
An experiment by the DIY'er "monomorphic' over at NasaSpaceFlight.com
has been able to alter force direction by changing an encompassing
magnetic field, if I recall reading a thread over there correctly.


I'll put my money on physics not changing.


Greg, I'd agree. That's a pretty safe bet...

I'd like to see them take the same amount of energy put into this thing
and instead stick it into the most efficient light emitters we've got
and focus all the light in one direction. Then compare the results.

Jeff



You'd get a photon rocket. From what I recall that force is an order of
magnitude or so smaller than what is being measured for EM Drive. Hence
all the excitement.

Dave

  #44  
Old November 28th 16, 06:56 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

In article , says...

On 11/26/2016 10:11 PM, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:
"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...
I'm still betting this thing is just a lame excuse for a photon emitter.
All those microwaves bouncing around in that metal chamber has to
produce heat that goes somewhere. If the heat is radiated away in a
non-uniform way, it would produce a very small net thrust due to the
emission of photons in the infrared range (and possibly other ranges).


That's my guess. I keep seeing in other places, "Will the EM drive prove
Physics wrong?" or variations on that.

Me either. But the forces claimed are too high for photon emission.
Either directly as a photon rocket or indirectly via asymmetric photon
emission (ie infra-red emissions due to heating). Also the force curves
don't follow the slowly decreasing saw tooth's you'd expect to see due
to slow decay cooling. They are abrupt square waves that closely track
the applied power.


Good to know.

I still believe it is interacting with an encompassing magnetic field.
An experiment by the DIY'er "monomorphic' over at NasaSpaceFlight.com
has been able to alter force direction by changing an encompassing
magnetic field, if I recall reading a thread over there correctly.


Interesting.


I'll put my money on physics not changing.


Greg, I'd agree. That's a pretty safe bet...


Agreed.

I'd like to see them take the same amount of energy put into this thing
and instead stick it into the most efficient light emitters we've got
and focus all the light in one direction. Then compare the results.

Jeff


You'd get a photon rocket. From what I recall that force is an order of
magnitude or so smaller than what is being measured for EM Drive. Hence
all the excitement.


Good to know. Hopefully someone will find the explanation. Whatever it
is, it still might be useful for spacecraft operating inside earth's
magnetic field.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #45  
Old November 29th 16, 05:12 PM posted to sci.space.policy
William Mook[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,840
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

A non Newtonian drive is science fiction. A positronium power source is not.
  #46  
Old December 4th 16, 04:15 AM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Cannae will try to prove propellentless propulsion in space in 2017 and
has ambitious space probe designs with 33 years of constant acceleration
to reach 3% of lightspeed:

"The Cannae drive is also propellentless like the EMdrive but is a different
design. They will test their system orbit in a cubesat in 2017

Cannae is not using an EmDrive thruster in their upcoming launch. Cannae is using
it’s own proprietary thruster technology which requires no on-board propellant to
generate thrust. In addition, this project is being done as a private venture.
Cannae is only working with our private commercial partners on the upcoming
mission."

See:

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12...llentless.html

  #47  
Old December 6th 16, 07:02 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,901
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On 12/3/2016 10:15 PM, wrote:

Cannae is not using an EmDrive thruster in their upcoming launch. Cannae is using
it’s own proprietary thruster technology which requires no on-board propellant to
generate thrust. In addition, this project is being done as a private venture.
Cannae is only working with our private commercial partners on the upcoming
mission."


The Cannae design is very different from the Shawyer EmDrive thruster in
both design and construction. In principle, however, I'm not so sure.

How does it respond to being operated in a magnetic field generated by
Helmholtz coils where the field strength and direction is modified?

Also the original Cannae "null device" article provided to Eagleworks
for testing in their lab also produced a positive thrust when it was not
supposed to, meaning an incorrect grasp of theory of operation*.
Eagleworks focused on the use of a dilectric in the Cannae design which
is not part of the EmDrive's open cavity frustum design, before
returning test articles to Cannae. To my knowledge there has been no
further independent lab test of the Cannae device to date. However
Cannae received funding for lab development and have created a very
impressive laboratory set up including a vacumm chamber and torsional
force pendulum for further testing.

This data is about 2 years old.

Dave

*Cannae provided two test articles to Eagleworks for testing. A
"slotted" device believed to be a propellent-less test article and a
"non-slotted" device of same dimensions believed to be a non-propulsive
control article. BOTH articles showed thrust on the Eagleworks torsion
pendulum.
  #48  
Old December 21st 16, 08:05 AM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

China says tests of Propellentless EMDrive on Tiangong 2
space station were successful:

"Dr. Chen Yue, Director of Commercial Satellite Technology for the China Academy of
Space Technology (CAST) announced on December 10, 2016 that not only has China
successfully tested EmDrives technology in its laboratories, but that a proof-of-concept
is currently undergoing zero-g testing in orbit (according to the International Business
Times, this test is taking place on the Tiangong 2 space station).

Scientists with the China Academy of Space Technology claim NASA’s results
‘re-confirm’ what they’d already achieved, and have plans to implement it in satellites
‘as quickly as possible.’

‘The establishment of an experimental verification platform to complete the milli-level
micro thrust measurement test, as well as several years of repeated experiments and
investigations into corresponding interference factors, confirm that in this type of
thruster, thrust exists.’

Cast is a subsidiary of the Chinese Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation
(CASC) and the manufacturer of Dong Fang Hong satellites."

See:

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12...llentless.html
  #49  
Old December 21st 16, 10:31 AM posted to sci.space.policy
William Mook[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,840
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 4:15:28 PM UTC+13, wrote:
Cannae will try to prove propellentless propulsion in space in 2017 and
has ambitious space probe designs with 33 years of constant acceleration
to reach 3% of lightspeed:

"The Cannae drive is also propellentless like the EMdrive but is a different
design. They will test their system orbit in a cubesat in 2017

Cannae is not using an EmDrive thruster in their upcoming launch. Cannae is using
it’s own proprietary thruster technology which requires no on-board propellant to
generate thrust. In addition, this project is being done as a private venture.
Cannae is only working with our private commercial partners on the upcoming
mission."

See:

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12...llentless.html


Meanwhile, Young Bae is awaiting funding for something that is known to work without question.

http://ykbcorp.com/downloads/Bae_pho...ulation..pd f

  #50  
Old January 7th 17, 12:28 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Non Newtonian Propulsion
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Info about Propulsione Non Newtoniana (PNN)

At the end of 2016 our non newtonian drive F242 finally repaired

http://www.asps.it/130h.jpg

from http://www.asps.it/vol36.htm Nova Astronautica n.150

The pnn F242 Thrust about 7/8 the EMdrive thrust in http://www.intelligonews.it/articoli...rario-a-newton

As soon as possible more info in Asps issue Nova Astronautica (quarterly) and in the fast blog

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...ams-of-thrust/

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moments of Inertia and the Shape of Continents and Landmasses on Earth Nico V Amateur Astronomy 10 July 3rd 12 07:31 PM
Moments of Inertia and the Shape of Continents and Landmasses on Earth Nico V Misc 5 May 31st 12 02:07 PM
Moments of Inertia and the Shape of Continents and Landmasses on Earth Nico V Astronomy Misc 0 May 28th 12 07:56 PM
Earth's Axis Slipping: Earth's Revolution Will Change: You Need To Find Another Planet To Live On USS Andromeda Misc 1 July 2nd 08 11:59 AM
Spinning creates Inertia,and Inertia is Used by nature to BalanceGrav G=EMC^2 Glazier Misc 1 December 3rd 06 06:25 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.