Astronomy vendors and their "sales"

Rolando, narrow it down please. Which part of this post is your comment.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W
wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 4:59 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Mar 2, 12:14 pm, wrote:





I think a lot of astronomy vendors are operating on a shoestring. A
few big ones like Orion are doing well, but most of the smaller
outfits are selling stuff at cost or slightly above. The margins on
astronomy items, especially telescopes, are razor thin. You cannot
expect any of them to lower their prices and sell stuff for less than
they owe to the manufacturers. For these dealers, profits on some of
the popular large telescopes will get you a 6 pack of Budweiser.

Rolando

On Mar 2, 11:41 am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

This story reminded me of astronomy vendors, their so called sales and
their excuses for insignificant discounts in a severe recession while
their sales continue to dry up.

No discount = No sales = Out of business

Looks like a repeat of the Post Comet Halley vendor loss is coming....

TMT

February 23, 2009 10:39 AM PST
Last days of Circuit City: Lousy bargains, rumpled salespeople

I remember when "liquidation" meant something. There was a small
electronics store in my area that was closing down a few years back.
Signs all over read "Liquidation Sale." In the store, I found prices
slashed considerably. Some good stuff was 75 percent off. It was a
fire sale, and it was fantastic. That was a going-out-of-business sale
done right. What Circuit City is doing now, though, I don't get.

The company is shutting down, as we all know. But I was still shocked
when I went into Circuit City this past weekend and found a store that
was a shadow of its former self. The signature red shirts on employees
were ditched in favor of jeans and sweatshirts; DVD sales racks that
were once barely browsed were overrun by customers who couldn't help
but dive in to the store's 50 percent off DVD sale. But the real
bargains that Circuit City claimed we all would love weren't so sexy
after all.

I need a new HDTV. Usually, I buy my HDTVs from Amazon.com because
I've found it has the best prices and delivery service. But since I
knew Circuit City was going out of business, I decided to make a trek
down there to see if there were any hidden gems at a good price. Signs
said the TVs were 30 percent off, and when I looked around, I realized
the inventory wasn't picked over, as I had feared. There were some
nice Sony LCDs on the shelves, as well as Panasonic plasmas.

I was drawn to the Panasonic TH-58pz800u, which was on sale for
approximately $2,600 at the store. I own the 50-inch model of that
plasma and couldn't be more pleased with its quality. So when I saw it
offered at such a discount, the wheels started turning and I was
thinking about how I was going to be able to fit it into the back of
my SUV.

But then I checked Amazon's price. To my surprise, Amazon was offering
the HDTV at an even more attractive price: $2,372.

So I decided to find one of the Circuit City salespeople to ask if
they matched pricing that online companies were offering. I searched
far and wide for their signature red shirt and could find just two
people wearing it. Thinking the company must have laid off some staff,
I went back to examining the HDTV, when a twenty-something guy dressed
in a hoodie, baggy jeans, sneakers, and a crooked Mets hat walked over
to me and asked if I needed help.

At first, I didn't realize he was an employee and I looked at him
without saying anything. Then he told me that he works at Circuit
City, he's just not required to wear his uniform anymore ("After all,
am I gonna get fired?") and that's why I didn't recognize him as a
salesperson.

So I asked him if the company matched pricing and showed him my
iPhone, which was displaying Amazon's price of the same Panasonic
plasma. His response was short and biting: "Nope. We don't do that
anymore."

You don't do that anymore? How is it possible that a company that
needs to liquidate its entire inventory won't sell a product to a
customer for $200 less? It's a guaranteed sale!

Of course, explaining that to this salesperson would have fallen on
deaf ears since he wasn't in a position to make any decisions and I
don't think he would have cared if he could. He's there until the end
of March--that's the deadline the employees have been given at this
store--and after that, he's on to bigger and better things. Why should
he care if Circuit City, a company that has laid him off, will be
getting my money or not?

For comparison's sake, I went to Best Buy across the street to see if
it had that same Panasonic plasma and to ask its salespeople if they
would match the Amazon price.

After just a few minutes of browsing, a Best Buy salesperson in the
signature blue shirt came up to me and asked if I needed help. When I
asked her if they would match pricing, she said, "Absolutely." In no
time, she asked her manager if they could match my price on the
Panasonic HDTV and he came over to assure me that they could and the
offer was on the table indefinitely--I didn't need to take it right
that second if I didn't want it.

In spite of the Circuit City going-out-of-business sale across the
street, the Best Buy was overrun with customers, the company's blue
shirts were everywhere, and people were rushing to the checkout lines.
Even in its dying days when it should be the price leader and the most
willing to sell products, Circuit City still doesn't "get" it.

Under the guise of "Everything Must Go!" sales, Circuit City's
liquidators are doing their best to feign value to squeeze every dime
out of customers just one last time. Maybe it works (the company
announced it has sold $1 billion in merchandise over the past month),
but I still think it's a sad state of affairs. Circuit City is still a
wrinkled mess. Meanwhile, Best Buy is as vital as ever.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Rolando...I am sympathetic to the plight of vendors but the reality is
this.

No discount = No sales = Out of business in this recession.

If they cannot survive, then it is time for them to sell out and move
on to more profitable lines of retailing.

TMT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And we both know they make lots of money.

Really!? The failure of Circuit City, only the latest of many, says
different. I can think of a rather large number of consumer electronics
retailers on so. Calif. that have gone belly-up in the last 15 years or so,
and that span of time includes some very good years for the economy as a
whole. Some of those businesses were retail fixtures for several decades.
As for Best Buy itself, maybe they're OK if you know exactly what you want
when you walk in, but, for my taste, both the selection and sales staff are
pathetic.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W

On Mar 2, 5:39*pm, "Curtis Croulet"
wrote:
And we both know they make lots of money.

Really!? *The failure of Circuit City, only the latest of many, says
different. *I can think of a rather large number of consumer electronics
retailers on so. Calif. that have gone belly-up in the last 15 years or so,
and that span of time includes some very good years for the economy as a
whole. *Some of those businesses were retail fixtures for several decades.
As for Best Buy itself, maybe they're OK if you know exactly what you want
when you walk in, but, for my taste, both the selection and sales staff are
pathetic.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W

Yes...they make lots of money.

Read their financial reports.

And telescope vendors make a sizable profit also.

TMT

TMT

Curtis Croulet wrote:
As for the liquidation company disposing of Circuit City -- there must be an
aspect of their business that I don't understand. I realize that what
they're doing right now is selling this stuff to people who think they're
getting a bargain, even when they're not. But the liquidators must
inevitably wind up with a lot of unsold product, most of which becomes
obsolete as soon as next-year's product line comes out. So how do they get
rid of this leftover junk and still make a profit?

They sell it to real liquidators like Crazy Gideon's
http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2...-279434A1.html

You have to realize that anything above the cost of paying to haul it to the
dump is considered a profit.

On Mar 2, 5:39*pm, "Curtis Croulet"
wrote:
And we both know they make lots of money.

Really!? *The failure of Circuit City, only the latest of many, says
different. *I can think of a rather large number of consumer electronics
retailers on so. Calif. that have gone belly-up in the last 15 years or so,
and that span of time includes some very good years for the economy as a
whole. *Some of those businesses were retail fixtures for several decades.
As for Best Buy itself, maybe they're OK if you know exactly what you want
when you walk in, but, for my taste, both the selection and sales staff are
pathetic.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W

In time vendors will offer better sales aka lower their profit
margins.

They will find that it is better to make a little and sell a lot then
make a lot and sell a little.

TMT

"Curtis Croulet" wrote:

And we both know they make lots of money.

Really!? The failure of Circuit City, only the latest of many, says
different. I can think of a rather large number of consumer electronics
retailers on so. Calif. that have gone belly-up in the last 15 years or so,
and that span of time includes some very good years for the economy as a
whole. Some of those businesses were retail fixtures for several decades.
As for Best Buy itself, maybe they're OK if you know exactly what you want
when you walk in, but, for my taste, both the selection and sales staff are
pathetic.

Best Buy? Take a look at what they ask for a USB or HDMI cable. About
900% more than newegg.com.

....with oxygen-free copper, too!

Say, has this sort of garbage made its way into the telescope industry
yet? I mean all the baloney designed to take advantage of clueless
consumers. Oxygen free copper wire, platinum-coated power plugs,
triple-ought gauge speaker wire, cell phone radiation shields, CD
stabilizer rings, magnetic bracelets... the list is endless and
amazing.
--
Dave

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

In time vendors will offer better sales aka lower their profit
margins.

They will find that it is better to make a little and sell a lot then
make a lot and sell a little.

Ah yes, that's the Big Truck Theory, one of my favorite business
fallacies. It works only in a very few cases, and even then only to a
certain point.

When competition is fierce--as it is in the consumer electronics
trade--market pressure forces companies to operate as close to the
bone as they can. They have precious little wiggle room in pricing to
combat a decrease in demand.
--
Dave

On Mar 2, 8:58*pm, Dave Typinski wrote:
"Curtis Croulet" wrote:

And we both know they make lots of money.

Really!? *The failure of Circuit City, only the latest of many, says
different. *I can think of a rather large number of consumer electronics
retailers on so. Calif. that have gone belly-up in the last 15 years or so,
and that span of time includes some very good years for the economy as a
whole. *Some of those businesses were retail fixtures for several decades.
As for Best Buy itself, maybe they're OK if you know exactly what you want
when you walk in, but, for my taste, both the selection and sales staff are
pathetic.

Best Buy? *Take a look at what they ask for a USB or HDMI cable. About
900% more than newegg.com.

...with oxygen-free copper, too!

Say, has this sort of garbage made its way into the telescope industry
yet? *I mean all the baloney designed to take advantage of clueless
consumers. *Oxygen free copper wire, platinum-coated power plugs,
triple-ought gauge speaker wire, cell phone radiation shields, CD
stabilizer rings, magnetic bracelets... the list is endless and
amazing.
--
Dave

A definite YES.

Same behavior, different names.

People are the same everywhere.

The worst offenders are refractors and eyepieces.

TMT

On Mar 2, 9:07*pm, Dave Typinski wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

In time vendors will offer better sales aka lower their profit
margins.

They will find that it is better to make a little and sell a lot then
make a lot and sell a little.

Ah yes, that's the Big Truck Theory, one of my favorite business
fallacies. *It works only in a very few cases, and even then only to a
certain point.

When competition is fierce--as it is in the consumer electronics
trade--market pressure forces companies to operate as close to the
bone as they can. They have precious little wiggle room in pricing to
combat a decrease in demand.
--
Dave

And yet they make millions.

And in the telescope trade where competition is nil to none....they
have an enormous amount of wiggle room to work with.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

On Mar 2, 9:07*pm, Dave Typinski wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

In time vendors will offer better sales aka lower their profit
margins.

They will find that it is better to make a little and sell a lot then
make a lot and sell a little.

Ah yes, that's the Big Truck Theory, one of my favorite business
fallacies. *It works only in a very few cases, and even then only to a
certain point.

When competition is fierce--as it is in the consumer electronics
trade--market pressure forces companies to operate as close to the
bone as they can. They have precious little wiggle room in pricing to
combat a decrease in demand.
--
Dave

And yet they make millions.

In 2006, Circuit City had sales of $11.6 billion with a net income of
$140 million. That's a profit of 1.2%. There's not much wiggle room
in 1.2%. Sometimes reducing fixed expenses by closing stores and
reducing payroll expense by getting rid of people isn't enough.

And in the telescope trade where competition is nil to none....they
have an enormous amount of wiggle room to work with.

I don't know anything about the telescope industry. I suspect their
profit margin is maybe 20%. Definitely some wiggle room there, but
not a lot if and when sales drop by 50%. If they cut prices by 20%
and sell the same number of scopes, they'd have a profit of zero
percent. If they sell fewer scopes at the lower price, they're into
losing money territory.
--
Dave