from 120 feet to 240,000 miles in less than a lifetime

Chris Marriott wrote:
"Tracy" wrote in message ...

The correct answer is no. An air ship is called a ship because it
floats and an air plane is called a plane because it flys. You can hang
a fan on a balloon, but that doesn't make it a plane. If you turn the
fan off, the balloon will continue to float. If you turn the engine off
on a plane, the plane will have to glide back to the ground.



Bear in mind, Tracy, that in the early days of aviation there wasn't the
clear separation between "lighter than air" and "heavier than air" machines
that you're making. Many of the aviation pioneers built machines with both
wings _and_ a gas bag to provide additional lift. It sounds wierd to us
today, but look at pictures of early aircraft and you'll find a lot of that
kind of arrangement!

Regards,

Chris


Oh Boy!
Now I can do my pedantic act!
It actually isn't the centenary yet. That should be sometime in April/May
2005.
Who's opinion was this? Try Wilbur Wright.
He certainly didn't think that they had a succesful heavier than
air machine until the model A of 1905. This incidentally was flown and
developed at the Huffman prairie outside Dayton Ohio.
The original 1903 Flyer was such a short lived machine and so underpowered
that it is hard to describe as fully controllable.
BTW here in New Zealand an inventor called Richard Pearse flew several
hundred metres in may/june 1903. His plane had control in roll with
primitive aeilerons but had an inadequate tail. However his motor had twice
the power and 1/3 the weight of the 1903 flyer's of the flyers 12 HP. So I
reckon the Wright's did indeed build the first proper flying machine,
but in 1905, and the 1903 flyer and the Pearce machine were pretty equal
in performance but for different reasons neither of them completely solved
the problem of mechanical flight.
Regards Cliff Wright (no relation!)

No we can't. Just look at the evidence before you. Some guy makes a
wonderful comment about how man has gone from achieving the dream of air
flight to landing on the moon in 66 years which is less than the life
span of some bewildered person who has the imagination necessary to
understand what it all means.

Despite the fact that most members of this group are intelligent,
diverse, and capable, No one comments on how amazing it is that while
man dreamed of air flight since at least the celebrated, famous, fabled
failed flight of Icarus, it took us thousands of years to achieve that
goal. No one cares that despite the fact that the materials used in the
1902 Wright glider were available since the time of Icarus, since the
time of Leonardo Da Vinci, since the time of Sir George Cayley, that no
one quite got it right. No one cares that the ancient dream of flight
wasn't attained by some huge corporation, nor was it won by some
government funded university research team, nor was it accomplished by
some desperate nation fighting a war.

It was accomplished by two former printers and bicycle manufacturers
using their own money, their own ingenuity, and their own determination
to achieve what no one else could given all the kings men and all the
kings horses.

No one dared venture that less than 66 years after man conquered the
skies, that the high bar for human achievement would be raised to goals
no one had ever even dared to dream of, much less accomplish.

No one lamented the fact that despite all these achievements, we're
still not flying around like George Jetson. The best we can do is
over-hype some silly little two wheeled Gyroscope that is infinitely
less useful than the very bicycles of 1903.

No one made any comment like this after 5, 6, or 7 chances.

The original poster sabatoged himself with an offhand comment about both
achievements being accomplished by Americans.

From that moment on, the contest began when Chris Marriot, unable to
contain his automated anti-America response complex, wiped his spit
soaked glasses clean, missed the entire point of the comment, and whined
that the original poster was wrong to state that the Wright brothers
flew first since somebody filled a bag full of gas and hung a fan on it.
It was probably a brave person and maybe even a smart person who added
a fan to the balloon of the Montgolfier's (Who, if I'm not mistaken,
got the idea that smoke was responsible for their flight since smoke
rises without understanding that they were floating due to bouyancy just
like a ship does.) But it really doesn't matter in the context of the
original poster's comment. I mean, thank God he didn't spell anything
wrong.

I could see Martin Luther King, Jr. ending his speach and Chris would
stand up in his spit soaked blouse and say, "But you repeated, I have a
dream."

If Chris was the news anchorman when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon
and said "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"
Chris would have yawned and asked, "Then why did he have to use a ladder"

No one could stop the spitting contest. Not even me and I recognized it
for what it was. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to stick Chris in
the side with the "an air ship doesn't fly it floats" jab. The best I
could do was to announce that it was indeed a spitting contest and all
hands should wet their whistles. Deep in the back of my mind, I hoped,
I wished, I prayed that some higher form of man, some man with the
genius of either Wright brother, would come along and make the point
that while we were spitting back and forth across continents, across
time zones, across cultural barriers, that someone somewhere was busy at
work doing something, anything more worthwhile. But such men aren't
going to waste their time.

And so I leave you my friends. Spit away. **** on if you must. My ale
is done, the skies are clearing, and it's getting dark.

I'm going to set up the Dob, find something to look at, and scare the
neighbor to death by looking up from the scope and shouting, "Holy
Mother of Jesus, It looks like a space ship and its headed this way!"

That always gets them interested in looking through the scope real fast.

Chris.B wrote:

Tracy wrote in message ...


The correct answer is no. An air ship is called a ship because it
floats and an air plane is called a plane because it flies. You can hang
a fan on a balloon, but that doesn't make it a plane. If you turn the
fan off, the balloon will continue to float. If you turn the engine off
on a plane, the plane will have to glide back to the ground.



Are we now discussing spitting, floating or flying? Had you read a
single word of my second post. You would now be so convinced of the
error in your false opinions. That you would be arguing with me as to
whether I put the case for flying strongly enough!

A ship steams ahead, is underway, is cruising, is sailing, is
crossing etc. The fact that it floats is so utterly unimportant as to
be not worth mentioning!

eg. "Wow! Look at that great battleship son. It's floating at thirty
knots".
or: "See that sailing ship floating into the teeth of gale. What a
magnificent sight!
or: "That giant cruise liner just floated across the Atlantic in 11
days!"
or: "They are having a tall ships floating race tomorrow! I must go
down to the harbour and watch them float!"
or: "The American fleet floated at top speed towards their base!"
or: "The ferry floating was so rough, I had to lean over the side!"
or: "The tramp steamer floated into harbour belching black smoke!"
or: Nelson's flagship floated with all sails aloft after the Armada.

All these statements are a complete nonsense. Admit it and move on.

And can we please stop talking about spitting?

Chris.B.Pedant

Tracy wrote in message ...
No we can't. Just look at the evidence before you. Some guy makes a
wonderful comment about how man has gone from achieving the dream of air
flight to landing on the moon in 66 years which is less than the life
span of some bewildered person who has the imagination necessary to
understand what it all means.

You have changed the subject again.
Where did I say that the achievement of flight was not a great
moment? I merely responded to the idea that airships simply floated. I
attempted to persuade you of the converse but you kept changing the
subject. Your saliva soaked blouse does not interest me in the context
of this discussion. I detest spitting!
While I simply continue to maintain that an airship is a controlled
flying machine. You rush headlong into a heated defense of the Wright
Brothers, scorn my (supposed) apathy towards man's progress & wring
anti-American flag waving from the barren soil of your false
arguments. Even attempt to gain the moral high ground by mentioning
your telescope.
None of this has anything whatever to do with observational
astronomy, Wright-hatred, spelling, spitting or setting up your Dob.
An airship is a controlled flying machine. Becoming defensive and
raising these endless irrelevancies. Then wildly attempting to paste
them onto my simple argument. As if I were the owner of your claimed
"facts & fancies". Simply in order to bolster your own false
assumptions. Does not alter this humble truth.

Spit makes a poor adhesive for anything but "labels".

Chris.B (The Ever-Reluctant Pedant)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:40:48 -0500, Tracy wrote:

No we can't. Just look at the evidence before you. Some guy makes a
wonderful comment about how man has gone from achieving the dream of air
flight to landing on the moon in 66 years which is less than the life
span of some bewildered person who has the imagination necessary to
understand what it all means.

Despite the fact that most members of this group are intelligent,
diverse, and capable, No one comments on how amazing it is that while
man dreamed of air flight since at least the celebrated, famous, fabled
failed flight of Icarus, it took us thousands of years to achieve that
goal. No one cares that despite the fact that the materials used in the
1902 Wright glider were available since the time of Icarus, since the
time of Leonardo Da Vinci, since the time of Sir George Cayley, that no
one quite got it right. No one cares that the ancient dream of flight
wasn't attained by some huge corporation, nor was it won by some
government funded university research team, nor was it accomplished by
some desperate nation fighting a war.

It was accomplished by two former printers and bicycle manufacturers
using their own money, their own ingenuity, and their own determination
to achieve what no one else could given all the kings men and all the
kings horses.

No one dared venture that less than 66 years after man conquered the
skies, that the high bar for human achievement would be raised to goals
no one had ever even dared to dream of, much less accomplish.

No one lamented the fact that despite all these achievements, we're
still not flying around like George Jetson. The best we can do is
over-hype some silly little two wheeled Gyroscope that is infinitely
less useful than the very bicycles of 1903.

No one made any comment like this after 5, 6, or 7 chances.

The original poster sabatoged himself with an offhand comment about both
achievements being accomplished by Americans.

That wasn't self-sabotage, that was pride, and I stand by my
statement: Both events were American.

Cheer,

Dennis

From that moment on, the contest began when Chris Marriot, unable to
contain his automated anti-America response complex, wiped his spit
soaked glasses clean, missed the entire point of the comment, and whined
that the original poster was wrong to state that the Wright brothers
flew first since somebody filled a bag full of gas and hung a fan on it.
It was probably a brave person and maybe even a smart person who added
a fan to the balloon of the Montgolfier's (Who, if I'm not mistaken,
got the idea that smoke was responsible for their flight since smoke
rises without understanding that they were floating due to bouyancy just
like a ship does.) But it really doesn't matter in the context of the
original poster's comment. I mean, thank God he didn't spell anything
wrong.

I could see Martin Luther King, Jr. ending his speach and Chris would
stand up in his spit soaked blouse and say, "But you repeated, I have a
dream."

If Chris was the news anchorman when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon
and said "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"
Chris would have yawned and asked, "Then why did he have to use a ladder"

No one could stop the spitting contest. Not even me and I recognized it
for what it was. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to stick Chris in
the side with the "an air ship doesn't fly it floats" jab. The best I
could do was to announce that it was indeed a spitting contest and all
hands should wet their whistles. Deep in the back of my mind, I hoped,
I wished, I prayed that some higher form of man, some man with the
genius of either Wright brother, would come along and make the point
that while we were spitting back and forth across continents, across
time zones, across cultural barriers, that someone somewhere was busy at
work doing something, anything more worthwhile. But such men aren't
going to waste their time.

And so I leave you my friends. Spit away. **** on if you must. My ale
is done, the skies are clearing, and it's getting dark.

I'm going to set up the Dob, find something to look at, and scare the
neighbor to death by looking up from the scope and shouting, "Holy
Mother of Jesus, It looks like a space ship and its headed this way!"

That always gets them interested in looking through the scope real fast.

Chris.B wrote:

Tracy wrote in message ...


The correct answer is no. An air ship is called a ship because it
floats and an air plane is called a plane because it flies. You can hang
a fan on a balloon, but that doesn't make it a plane. If you turn the
fan off, the balloon will continue to float. If you turn the engine off
on a plane, the plane will have to glide back to the ground.



Are we now discussing spitting, floating or flying? Had you read a
single word of my second post. You would now be so convinced of the
error in your false opinions. That you would be arguing with me as to
whether I put the case for flying strongly enough!

A ship steams ahead, is underway, is cruising, is sailing, is
crossing etc. The fact that it floats is so utterly unimportant as to
be not worth mentioning!

eg. "Wow! Look at that great battleship son. It's floating at thirty
knots".
or: "See that sailing ship floating into the teeth of gale. What a
magnificent sight!
or: "That giant cruise liner just floated across the Atlantic in 11
days!"
or: "They are having a tall ships floating race tomorrow! I must go
down to the harbour and watch them float!"
or: "The American fleet floated at top speed towards their base!"
or: "The ferry floating was so rough, I had to lean over the side!"
or: "The tramp steamer floated into harbour belching black smoke!"
or: Nelson's flagship floated with all sails aloft after the Armada.

All these statements are a complete nonsense. Admit it and move on.

And can we please stop talking about spitting?

Chris.B.Pedant

wrote in message . ..
There were two important anniversaries yesterday...one, the first
powered flight by humans 100 years ago...two, the 34th anniversary of
Armstrong's walk on the moon. Amazing that just 66 years separate the
two events, less than the lifespan of a person. Both events done by
Americans, too... astonishingly good stuff.

Cheers,

Dennis

Methadone got you in a talkative mood?

On 24 Jul 2003 13:43:04 -0700, (Doogie Hoosier)
wrote:

wrote in message . ..
There were two important anniversaries yesterday...one, the first
powered flight by humans 100 years ago...two, the 34th anniversary of
Armstrong's walk on the moon. Amazing that just 66 years separate the
two events, less than the lifespan of a person. Both events done by
Americans, too... astonishingly good stuff.

Cheers,

Dennis

Methadone got you in a talkative mood?

Jeez, doggy....that's a real knee slapper....you really got me there,
all right.

Cheerio,

Dennis, Proud American Conservative, Irish

Pierre Vandevenne wrote in message .180...

We need a 50 year break from the E. Hemisphere!!

True, and we'd all deservedly drown in the oil you'd stop pumping ;-)


Don't even try Pierre. There's none so ****ed (off) as those hoist
(endlessly) by their own pe'tard. It's medals for meddling every time.

Cue the (involuntary) flag wavers: (Yawn) g

Chris.B

wrote in message . ..
On 24 Jul 2003 13:43:04 -0700, (Doogie Hoosier)
wrote:

wrote in message . ..
There were two important anniversaries yesterday...one, the first
powered flight by humans 100 years ago...two, the 34th anniversary of
Armstrong's walk on the moon. Amazing that just 66 years separate the
two events, less than the lifespan of a person. Both events done by
Americans, too... astonishingly good stuff.

Cheers,

Dennis

Methadone got you in a talkative mood?

Jeez, doggy....that's a real knee slapper....you really got me there,
all right.

Cheerio,

Dennis, Proud American Conservative, Irish

It always made me chatter.