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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
I couldn't get onto the streaming video.
At least it didn't take out the launch pad. Wait, it doesn't have a launch pad! http://cosmic.lifeform.org |
#2
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
I couldn't get onto the streaming video. At least it didn't take out the launch pad. Wait, it doesn't have a launch pad! Just confirmed, the vehicle was lost. 'Distinct rolling motion and loss of vehicle' This sucks. Almost as bad as losing the Cryosat! http://cosmic.lifeform.org |
#3
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote: Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote: I couldn't get onto the streaming video. At least it didn't take out the launch pad. Wait, it doesn't have a launch pad! Just confirmed, the vehicle was lost. 'Distinct rolling motion and loss of vehicle' Looked like an O.K. initial ascent from the pad, but it did not get very far. I looked away for a second, then looked back to see from the downward looking onboard camera view that the vehicle was rolling, then appeared to be turning toward the horizon at fairly low altitude, then someone turned off the video feed. RSO probably cut off the engine. Didn't even make max-Q. - Ed Kyle |
#4
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
Ed Kyle wrote: Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote: Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote: I couldn't get onto the streaming video. At least it didn't take out the launch pad. Wait, it doesn't have a launch pad! Just confirmed, the vehicle was lost. 'Distinct rolling motion and loss of vehicle' Looked like an O.K. initial ascent from the pad, but it did not get very far. I looked away for a second, then looked back to see from the downward looking onboard camera view that the vehicle was rolling, then appeared to be turning toward the horizon at fairly low altitude, then someone turned off the video feed. RSO probably cut off the engine. Didn't even make max-Q. - Ed Kyle There's a lot of speculation out there. Apparently different viewers saw different things. My feed slowed at liftoff--I saw it start to clear the pad and the next frames I got were the onboard camera showing the vehicle spinning, clearly at the wrong angle. Then my feed stopped. Justin Ray of SpaceFlight Now says : "A further look at the imagery seen from the onboard camera mounted to the Falcon 1 shows a noticeable change in the color and shape of the flame coming from the Merlin first stage main engine as the vehicle seemed to roll. It was at that point the webcast provided to reporters covering the launch immediately stopped. Repeated efforts to reconnect to the feed were unsuccessful. " To me that indicates a likely (another) engine failure...maybe all those test burns were bad? I wonder if they'll still be able to recover the first stage, or if the whole thing just walloped into the ocean. tom |
#5
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
Tom Cuddihy wrote: Ed Kyle wrote: Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote: Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote: I couldn't get onto the streaming video. At least it didn't take out the launch pad. Wait, it doesn't have a launch pad! Just confirmed, the vehicle was lost. 'Distinct rolling motion and loss of vehicle' Looked like an O.K. initial ascent from the pad, but it did not get very far. I looked away for a second, then looked back to see from the downward looking onboard camera view that the vehicle was rolling, then appeared to be turning toward the horizon at fairly low altitude, then someone turned off the video feed. RSO probably cut off the engine. Didn't even make max-Q. - Ed Kyle There's a lot of speculation out there. Apparently different viewers saw different things. My feed slowed at liftoff--I saw it start to clear the pad and the next frames I got were the onboard camera showing the vehicle spinning, clearly at the wrong angle. Then my feed stopped. Justin Ray of SpaceFlight Now says : "A further look at the imagery seen from the onboard camera mounted to the Falcon 1 shows a noticeable change in the color and shape of the flame coming from the Merlin first stage main engine as the vehicle seemed to roll. It was at that point the webcast provided to reporters covering the launch immediately stopped. Repeated efforts to reconnect to the feed were unsuccessful. " To me that indicates a likely (another) engine failure...maybe all those test burns were bad? I wonder if they'll still be able to recover the first stage, or if the whole thing just walloped into the ocean. tom I just download a replay of the launch video over at "www.nasaspaceflight.com". It shows that the rocket rose from its pad and ascended cleanly for about 25 seconds before the vehicle's propulsion system either suffered a failure or was commanded to shut down. The on-board camera view then showed the vehicle rolling and falling toward the ocean - either shallow water or a beach! The view clearly showed that the first stage LOX insulation blanket did not pull off of the stage as it should have at liftoff. The thing was flapping around for awhile until it fell back toward the engine a few seconds before something happened that clearly ended thrust from the engine. Whether the blanket had anything to do with the failure is clearly unknowable at this moment. The vehicle didn't start to pitch and roll until after the engine was cut off. Falcon 1 is equipped with an engine cut-off range safety system rather than destruct charges. If the rocket was ascending off course, the engine would have been commanded to shut down. In that event, the rocket would have fallen, more or less intact, not far from the launch site. Man. Those 25 seconds were nice. That thing was really flying! - Ed Kyle |
#6
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
I couldn't get onto the streaming video. At least it didn't take out the launch pad. Wait, it doesn't have a launch pad! http://cosmic.lifeform.org It will be interesting to hear what their version of "how we will do better next time" will sound like. -- Sander +++ Out of cheese error +++ |
#7
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
Sander Vesik wrote:
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote: I couldn't get onto the streaming video. At least it didn't take out the launch pad. Wait, it doesn't have a launch pad! http://cosmic.lifeform.org It will be interesting to hear what their version of "how we will do better next time" will sound like. I'm more interested in hearing exactly what went wrong. I'm very distrustful of an ablative combustion chamber. But then again, maybe it was something trivial and simple. I think the concept of a small TSTO all kerosene rocket has merit, but I would have went with something a little bigger, and a little more ambitious. The thought of scaling a nearly marginal design up something like 42 times makes me wary. I want clean cryogenic tanks, excess fuel and water, and reusable and restartable cryogenic engines in high orbits, so the whole concept of a TSTO kerosene rocket is useless to me. Plus, if they can't launch from the cape, the Bahamas is closer. http://cosmic.lifeform.org |
#8
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
Ed Kyle wrote: The view clearly showed that the first stage LOX insulation blanket did not pull off of the stage as it should have at liftoff. The thing was flapping around for awhile until it fell back toward the engine a few seconds before something happened that clearly ended thrust from the engine. Whether the blanket had anything to do with the failure is clearly unknowable at this moment. The vehicle didn't start to pitch and roll until after the engine was cut off. - Ed Kyle Hmm...I think I remember somebody (was it you Ed?) mentioning that the sudden addition of a 'corrective' insulation blanket could cause more problems than it solved...that at some point it's better to just launch as designed than to tweak yourself out of success. Anyway, we'll have to wait and see, but it sure sounds like somebody at sci.space.policy was 'clairvoyant' on this one... Tom |
#9
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
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#10
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SpaceX Falcon Lost?
On 24 Mar 2006 23:12:09 -0800, "Tom Cuddihy"
wrote: Hmm...I think I remember somebody (was it you Ed?) mentioning that the sudden addition of a 'corrective' insulation blanket could cause more problems than it solved...that at some point it's better to just launch as designed than to tweak yourself out of success. Anyway, we'll have to wait and see, but it sure sounds like somebody at sci.space.policy was 'clairvoyant' on this one... I recall months ago when SpaceX mentioned adding an insulation blanket to help minimise hydrogen loss that someone in here mention that it was a bad idea to have it touch the rocket body. This was followed up by someone else mentioning that they were most likely to use a tent system to avoid direct contact. This they obviously did not use for reasons known only to them. From what I have been reading around then the most popular theory is that the ground restraints failed to separate the insulation blanket on launch. This blanket then caused the rocket to have difficulty in maintaining the correct trajectory. The blanket soon began to break up and where one large piece impacted the engine. This led to engine failure and automatic shutdown, where since it was going up at a angle anyway, then it soon fell back into the Ocean. You could say that in the battle of Falcon 1 verses Velcro, then Velcro won this time. This is of course a nice theory, but we will have to wait for SpaceX to provide their official, and possibly totally different, report. The one thing we do know for sure is that this rocket should have gone nearly straight up on launch and where the launch video clearly shows a largely angled flight path. Still, look on the bright side, when at least they managed to launch it. This early loss is clearly unhelpful, but hopefully next time they can go somewhat further. That being called progress in other words. It is worth noting that SpaceX use the failure mode of engine shutdown and a hard landing, instead of the usual explosive destruction. Their next launch at Vandenberg may have issues with this, when Vandenberg have already been voicing concern that this launch did not cure. So this could well become an issue for their next launch in what should have been around 5 months from now. That is all I have managed to find out. I have not seen this launch video myself yet, when I missed the launch and where the only site hosting a copy takes ~24 hours to process my registration. So if anyone knows of another source then please let me know. Cardman http://www.cardman.org http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk |
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