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"George Dishman" wrote in message ...
Hi Jim, how ya doing. "Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... "Androcles" wrote in message ... "Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... | | | Have a look at how your computer works. There are a series of 0,1 , | | | or (+1) if you like. | | | | Not really... it uses voltages. | | | | Nope! Code 11111100000100101100101010110010010010000110011011 0.... | | ........not a minus 1 to be seen! | | What do you mean, nope? | I can assure you, MY computer uses voltages. | | And NOT this code?? Oh, you mean a theoretical computer, like a Turing Machine, designed by the mathematician and Enigma codebreaker, Alan Turing. That's the theory of computing, not HOW my computer WORKS. I believe you must be missing the point (deliberately?) The silicon atoms are either 'charged' or 'not charged'- there is NO third possibility. Whatever keys the programmer uses to "work" the computer have J*S to do with it. They are either yes/no on/off 0/(1) etc THAT is HOW a computer "operates" No it isn't. I suggest you read some datasheets before trying to tell people how things work. The logic states can be represented by anything you like as long as they are distinguishable. Most computers use voltages though currents are equally valid (look up IIL or "I squared logic"), and in the future perhaps quantum states will carry the information. The modem you use to connect to the internet probably uses amplitude and phase-change to represent data and is highly unlikely to be binary unless you have a _very_ old modem. The device I am currently working with has switchable thresholds to match the surrounding circuitry. We use it in 3.3V mode where a logic 1 is a voltage in the range +2.0V to +3.6V while logic 0 is between -0.3V and +0.8V. In 2.5V mode, logic 1 is +1.7V to +2.8V while logic 0 is from -0.3V to +0.7V. We are interfacing to an old system where logic 1 is any voltage more negative than -32V and logic 0 is any voltage more positive than -5V and we translate between them using opto-isolators where logic 1 is an input current greater than 0.5mA and logic 0 is less than 0.2mA giving output currents of -0.25mA and -0.1mA respectively (50% CTR, active pull down). Devices are actually operated by voltages, logic levels are merely the interpretations we apply. best regards George G'day stranger! No dents in the cow-catcher, I trust? :-) As for this computer bit ( ;-) ), my understanding of a silicon chip, is that each atom has two possible states ONLY, and it is this that allows them to be used as we do (some much better than others, sob!) I have still to be provided by a "less than zero" which occurs in nature, by anybody. Entities claimed invariably are the result of mistaking direction, position, or a human designation (electron/proton situation). When calculations give a result which is impossible/doesn't occur in nature, a light should go on in that mathematician's head, that the math used is faulty/wrongly applied to the situation. Good to see you around- I must pull my finger out, and see where we were at! Jim G c'=c+v (sorry!) |
#152
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"Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... "George Dishman" wrote in message ... ... Devices are actually operated by voltages, logic levels are merely the interpretations we apply. G'day stranger! No dents in the cow-catcher, I trust? :-) Smooth as a wheatfield after a hurricane. As for this computer bit ( ;-) ), my understanding of a silicon chip, is that each atom has two possible states ONLY, and it is this that allows them to be used as we do (some much better than others, sob!) Nope, nothing like that. The logic states are represented by voltages on aluminium tracks. The silicon is used to make transistors that act simply as switches that connect one voltage or another onto the tracks and those voltages in turn operate more transistor switches. I have still to be provided by a "less than zero" which occurs in nature, by anybody. Entities claimed invariably are the result of mistaking direction, position, or a human designation (electron/proton situation). Electron/ proton is a good example. You can designate the charge on either as positive but that on the other must always be negative. Or think of pair production such as an electron/positron pair. In nature total charge is conserved so if two particles are created and one has positive charge the other must have an equal and opposite (negative) charge if the total is to sum to zero. When calculations give a result which is impossible/doesn't occur in nature, a light should go on in that mathematician's head, that the math used is faulty/wrongly applied to the situation. That's one reason scientists are highly sceptical of claims of FTL phenomena, the elapsed proper time becomes imaginary, but negative values are commonplace and not a problem (except when they are not supposed to be there as happened this morning). Good to see you around- I must pull my finger out, and see where we were at! Well you were going to send some holiday snaps to make me jealous (it seems a long time ago) but generally you were looking at Alf, Bert and Charlie to see if it could help you could grasp the 4D way of looking at time and space. Unfortunately my web site got trashed during maintenance at the ISP so I'll have to hunt down the graphics and load them back up again (I wouldn't expect you to have taken a local copy). best regards George |
#153
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"George Dishman" wrote in message ...
"Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... "George Dishman" wrote in message ... ... Devices are actually operated by voltages, logic levels are merely the interpretations we apply. G'day stranger! No dents in the cow-catcher, I trust? :-) Smooth as a wheatfield after a hurricane. As for this computer bit ( ;-) ), my understanding of a silicon chip, is that each atom has two possible states ONLY, and it is this that allows them to be used as we do (some much better than others, sob!) Nope, nothing like that. The logic states are represented by voltages on aluminium tracks. The silicon is used to make transistors that act simply as switches that connect one voltage or another onto the tracks and those voltages in turn operate more transistor switches. This IS (sort of) what I was getting at; the switches only have two positions- not the equivalent of the 3 choices expressed by (-1) 0 (+1) I have still to be provided by a "less than zero" which occurs in nature, by anybody. Entities claimed invariably are the result of mistaking direction, position, or a human designation (electron/proton situation). Electron/ proton is a good example. You can designate the charge on either as positive but that on the other must always be negative. Or think of pair production such as an electron/positron pair. In nature total charge is conserved so if two particles are created and one has positive charge the other must have an equal and opposite (negative) charge if the total is to sum to zero. When calculations give a result which is impossible/doesn't occur in nature, a light should go on in that mathematician's head, that the math used is faulty/wrongly applied to the situation. That's one reason scientists are highly sceptical of claims of FTL phenomena, the elapsed proper time becomes imaginary, but negative values are commonplace and not a problem (except when they are not supposed to be there as happened this morning). Yeh- I slept in to! I'm afraid that I still stick to the case, that a photon from a moving source, would pass one from a stationary source (travelling in the same direction, of course). The other time travel scenarios I am not sure of, but 'feel' that the obstacle is energy application, not a natural barrier to any greater speed. Good to see you around- I must pull my finger out, and see where we were at! Well you were going to send some holiday snaps to make me jealous (it seems a long time ago) but generally you were looking at Alf, Bert and Charlie to see if it could help you could grasp the 4D way of looking at time and space. Unfortunately my web site got trashed during maintenance at the ISP so I'll have to hunt down the graphics and load them back up again (I wouldn't expect you to have taken a local copy). best regards George The scan (photo) files are a bit big (5000kbs) Perhaps we can work something out on the other address? (They are so good, I get jealous myself, just reviewing :-) .........is that time travel?) Have a good one Jim G (c'=c+v left out in your case :-) ) |
#154
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"Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... "George Dishman" wrote in message ... "Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... "George Dishman" wrote in message ... ... Devices are actually operated by voltages, logic levels are merely the interpretations we apply. .... As for this computer bit ( ;-) ), my understanding of a silicon chip, is that each atom has two possible states ONLY, and it is this that allows them to be used as we do (some much better than others, sob!) Nope, nothing like that. The logic states are represented by voltages on aluminium tracks. The silicon is used to make transistors that act simply as switches that connect one voltage or another onto the tracks and those voltages in turn operate more transistor switches. This IS (sort of) what I was getting at; the switches only have two positions- not the equivalent of the 3 choices expressed by (-1) 0 (+1) You use "sort of" in an all-encompassing style. Look again at what you said that prompted this as well as your response above: "Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... "Androcles" wrote in message ... "Jim Greenfield" wrote in message om... | | | Have a look at how your computer works. There are a series of 0,1, | | | or (+1) if you like. | | | | Not really... it uses voltages. | | | | Nope! Code 11111100000100101100101010110010010010000110011011 0.... | | ........not a minus 1 to be seen! | | What do you mean, nope? | I can assure you, MY computer uses voltages. | | And NOT this code?? The symbols "0" and "1" are representational only, computers operate on voltages that are 'real' values (i.e. can take _any_ value, not just multiples of some quantum) and can be positive or negative as shown by the real life examples I gave. I have still to be provided by a "less than zero" which occurs in nature, by anybody. Entities claimed invariably are the result of mistaking direction, position, or a human designation (electron/proton situation). Electron/ proton is a good example. You can designate the charge on either as positive but that on the other must always be negative. Or think of pair production such as an electron/positron pair. In nature total charge is conserved so if two particles are created and one has positive charge the other must have an equal and opposite (negative) charge if the total is to sum to zero. You also ignored the key example that disproves your claim. I'll snip the rest as it is unrelated to this topic and I've replied by email on our previous discussion on SR. best regards George |
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