Bill Vorce:

Howard Lester is a very reliable decent honest individual .... with a
ton of common sense.
Jerry Warner



John Steinberg wrote:

[Gak! I slipped and prematurely posted. Sorry about that mess.]

I wrote:

a sock puppet who writes in a remarkably similar
style as the OP...

... even down to the problematic line wrapping and failure to use
punctuation on contractions, etc., the question of the identity of this
puppet is highly suspect, and serves as another data point that
directly contradicts your own assertion. Which by your own testimony,
is not of recent vintage.

What say you now, Dr. Lester?

--
-John Steinberg
email: lid

-= I link therefore I'm spammed =-

Phil C wrote:

The only asshole here seems to be YOU. I have seen no details. Just
ranting. And myself, like many others that I know, have had good
dealings with Bill. In phone conversations and dealings he has always
been scrupulously honest.

He deals in used parts a lot. You may have had incorrect expectations
along these lines. But that is no reason to attack him. In my
experience he has always made things right.

He offered once again to refund us. There comes a point when after so many
botched orders returning for a refund is beside the point, not worth the
trouble, and only adds further cost and loss. He never apologises and
shifts all responsibility to the buyer which really becomes absurd after so
many botched
transactions. Thats my expereience.






Any problem you had was no doubt centered in an inability to use the
parts properly or maybe you were expecting the "deal of a lifetime" but
it turned out to be exactly as advertised.

How would you know? What if you are wrong? You dont care either.
You are probably a friend of Bill Vorce's - you see I can make some wild
speculations also!



Get over it. You are showing your immaturity and lack of common sense.
Do you have something against businessmen??? You have a bunch of
personal problems and are probably not worth my time writing this.
But I just cant stand by and let an idiot take potshots. Businesses
are in business to make money. Is this a foreign concept to you??
The value added by Bill is that he collects, stores and catalogs the
used parts for you. This is worth money and he should be paid for
it.

Up to the point you order a 'cat' and he sends you dogs, one after the
other,
then even says 'well it was the closest thing to a cat I had'!

What is this baloney you are peddling on saa? Is this your personal
problem?



So knock off the crap and find youself a good psychiatrist.

Keep this in mind the next time you get screwed up in a business
transaction.

Have a nice day.

Jerry







Phil C.

wrote:

Hello Scoop 8^)

I've never posted to saa before this, but I have purchased from
Telescope Warehouse. Bill's a nice guy and a trustworthy fellow to do
business with.
Unlike some other predators I've had the displeasure of throwing away
money to.

Strange. That is exactly what I thought and hoped for over the years.
It just never materialsied and Im very upset about it, as you can tell.
Something is wrong.

Jerry





Excuse the intrusion but the 5000 members of Yahoo Nexstar Group
(which you founded as you may well remember) would be pleased and
honored
if you dropped by to say hi. More than pleased actually, ecstatic!!!

warm regards,

Frank D
Colorado

wrote:

I 100% agree with Phil.

I have dealt with Bill Vorce for about the past ten years or so
and have even been to his house in Las Vegas to pick up an ETX
hard case when I was passing through several years ago. I have
found him to always be polite, ethical and prompt. I have never
had an order screwed up or received something that wasn't exactly
as it was described before the sale.

In my RoboScope and ScopeMounts Yahoo groups (1,600+ and
1,700+ members respectively), Bill gets mentioned about once a
week as a source for telescope parts and the feedback there on
Bill has been 100% positive. Not even ONE negative post from
anyone doing business with Bill.

Whoever this Jerry character is, he leads me to suspect that he once
tried to rip off Bill and failed. Now he is trying to use the patented
Hairy Semen (a.k.a. Hairy Shytbird) sock puppet technique of winning
enemies and offending people.

Luzer.

I am glad you had good experience with Bill Vorce. I had hoped to over the
years but have not and it's very objective on my part. I have no
explanation
for it so what else am I supposed to say, except it seems to me you are
precisely the kind of person who should not be posting on this topic? But
this is a free forum .................... or is it?
Jerry Warner






-Christopher Erickson

We ordered a number of 1.25 and 2" filter cells over several months
and always specified exactly what we needed and why. Sometimes Bill
had them, sometimes not and that was no problem - we went elsewhere.
But every order he sent had something wrong with it. (wrong colors, wrong
sizes, chipped filters, non screw type cells we told him we could not use -
we told him all cells had to be screw-type retainer ring....) We kept
everything
not wishing the expense of reshipping for refunds or a quarrel with Bill. We
bent over backlwards always hoping the next order would be correct, and it
was Bill himself continually saying "yes I have what you want".

This was very simple. 1.25 and 2 inch filters/cells. Clear or ND glass IF
POSSIBLE. Bill would always reply and tell us he either had what we
wanted or did not and we ordered every time on that basis. The price
fluctuated
from Bills end from time to time, but that was no probvlem. We paid him
what he wanted plus shipping.

One order arrived after Bill said he had clear glass filters and all were
orange
or yellow. I wrote Bill simply asking what had happened and he told me
"I have sent you the closest thing I have to clear". The tone of his email
was
as if he really didnt care. Well close and clear are the same and we had to
have clear. (Again, we did not return this order for a refund simply to get
on with our work and to avoid provoking Bill. We ordered clear 27mm glass
from Edmund instead to use with the cells Bill had sent).

I waited a week and wrote Bill a friendly email and explained _one more time_

why we had to have clear glass if he could provide it, what we were doing
with these cells, and Bill replied: "Oh! I didnt understand what you were
doing.". I had already explained all of this over and over again. It was as
if Bill was not reading my emails and simply sending us what he wanted or
what he had on hand irregardless of our needs or our actual orders, or what
Bill hismelf had told us
he had and could deliver! We had a meeting here and decided to bypass Bill
Vorce and use the filter cells he had sent, and buy clear glass blanks from
Edmund ..... which we did for a number of weeks.

Finally not wishing to be on bad terms with Bill I wrote him one more time
and
asked again if he now had clear glass filters. He said he did so I placed an
order. All arrived and were yellow (again!). People here came unglued.
We ordered more glass from another source.

A week later we opened a box Bill had previously sent with 2" filter cells
and all but one were modern spring retainer type cells, we could not use. We
had been specific from the outset - WE MUST HAVE SCREW TYPE CELLS!
(because screw type cells will take several layers of glass while modern
spring type cells will only take one layer of glass).

This is when things finally blew. I wrote Bill and he said to return the 2"
cells
for a refund and he indicated he was unhappy with me .... I replied and told
Bill I could no longer do this anymore. That I now had people angry at me
for ever having gone to Bill in the first place ........ and Bill of course
replied
curtly 'he was through with me".

It's been the same thing with Bill Vorce over and over in just about every
transaction I have tried to do with Bill since about 1992?

I am always the one getting blamed and Im sick of it!

I'm still waiting to see this Bill Vorce everyone keeps recommending,
endlessly.

I hope this explains the specifics of this last series of transactions we are

so disappointed about.
Jerry






Tim Auton wrote:

jerry warner wrote:

Is an idiot. Time has proven that only about one out of every ten
transactions one does with this guy turn out to be successful - the rest

always require shipping back for wrong parts, refunds, and constant
hassles.

Would you care to document exactly what went on, or are you just going
to make vague accusations?

Tim
--
Today's message was brought to you by Mary, Jane and a big number two.

Heh.

I see that making sense is not your forte!

Even sock puppetry doesn't seem to be one of your better skills.

Maybe better to leave that to Hairy Shytbird too.

-Christopher Erickson

Hay Jerry, I can always say you've been good to me. ;}

"jerry warner" wrote in message
...


Whoever this Jerry character is, he leads me to suspect that he once

Well you are my last friend. You're in my will!
Im deleting everything but this. This mess just isnt worth the grief.
Thanks Starlord...
Jerry

Starlord wrote:

Hay Jerry, I can always say you've been good to me. ;}

"jerry warner" wrote in message
...


Whoever this Jerry character is, he leads me to suspect that he once

Frank wrote:

Excuse the intrusion but the 5000 members of Yahoo Nexstar Group
(which you founded as you may well remember) would be pleased and
honored if you dropped by to say hi. More than pleased actually, ecstatic!!!


Frank!

How nice to see you and to read of the tremendous growth of the group.

If memory serves there were only about nine members when I retired so
you've obviously done well in my absence.

I'll definitely make a point to drop in soon and again, great to hear
from you!

In the interim, please extend a hello from me to all the old timers.
8^)

Very best,

--
-John "Scoop" Steinberg
email: lid

-= I link therefore I'm spammed =-

Phil C wrote:

Hi Phil,

Long time no communicate.

Yes, it has been. A very long time.

GREAT to see you! Over the years I have asked our mutual acquaintance,
Mark, to say hello from me.

Hope all is well in your slice of the world.

Was just thinking about you recently during a recent thread here about
seeing the Galilean moons without optical aid. Plus, I was trying to
recall the exact wording of your brilliant "Man who hates rope" tale.

Seems like old s.a.a. times with your posting here. Hope you stick
around for a bit.

Best to you and yours,

--
-John Steinberg
email: lid

-= I link therefore I'm spammed =-