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#61
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Sorry: I don't have a clue what happened. Deleting one at time.
ACK!!! Got this reply all done and my system froze just as I was
about to hit send and had to do a hard reboot. Oh well. Feces occurs. Moving on.... Peter Hucker wrote in : On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:45:11 -0000, Skywise wrote: Snipola And just how do you decide how many messages to knock off from each group? You delete the oldest ones first, irrespective of what group they are in. And just how do you decide which groups to delete from? For example, you get a flood in one group of 1000 posts, how do you decide which of the 15,000 other (or more) groups gets one (or more?) messages deleted? Actually, I can envision a way, but it would require too much CPU overhead to accomplish. I'm no porgramming expert, but most of my programs are database crunchers, which is what the core of NSP server software is. It is far easier to say "I have 5 new messages for group X, which has a message cap of 1000. That group already has 1000 messages, so I'll just delete to 5 oldest ones to make room for the 5 new ones" than it is to say "I just received 5 new messages for group X, but I need to make room on the servers so I need to scan through all 15,000 groups and millions of messages and trillions of bytes to figure out which ones are the oldest and to delete them to make room and hope I can do all this before the next new message arrives in the next few milliseconds." Just as a point of reference, my most sophisticated programs were used to analyze earthquake databases to statistically analyze prediction methods. Personal use only, so didn't need any fancy interface and could spend all my time optimizing the search routines. BTW, with your proposed method, it is theoretically possible to wipe out the posts from every newsgroup with a large enough flood to only one group. I doubt it. Do you know how large usenet is? There are people posting pirate DVDs faster than a spammer can flood. Hence the caveat "theoretically". Obviously the more capacity a server has, the less likely it is to occur. Your example of DVD postings is a good one. Do you propose to use your method to make room on the servers for these messages just the same as a flood? Why should ABPA loose it's older messages just because someone decides to post the entire 10 season collection of Stargate SG-1, which is at least 50 DVD's. (I know, I have them) And herein lies the problem with your method. How do you tell the difference between a flood and just a massively huge, but legit post? So as you can see, although you don't like the way messages fall off the servers, there are very good practical reason that things are done the way they are. Brian -- http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? |
#62
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Sorry: I don't have a clue what happened. Deleting one at time.
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:56:43 -0800, Geoff
wrote: On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:49:04 +0000, Peter Hucker wrote: [snip] The NSP I use works this way. No, it doesn't. Altopia works the same way as the others. As I suspected, you have never run an NNTP server and have no clue. It keeps x days of binaries. ... and it keeps y days of text. Q.E.D. What? I've never said text was the same as binaries. What I've said is all binary groups are the same expiry time. -- This message has been brought to you by solar and wind power. Who needs the national grid? http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com Why do people point to their wrist when asking for the time, but don't point to their crotch when asking where the bathroom is? |
#63
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Sorry: I don't have a clue what happened. Deleting one at time.
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 05:29:16 -0000, Skywise
wrote: ACK!!! Got this reply all done and my system froze just as I was about to hit send and had to do a hard reboot. Oh well. Feces occurs. Moving on.... Doesn't it auto save? Peter Hucker wrote in : On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:45:11 -0000, Skywise wrote: Snipola And just how do you decide how many messages to knock off from each group? You delete the oldest ones first, irrespective of what group they are in. And just how do you decide which groups to delete from? For example, you get a flood in one group of 1000 posts, how do you decide which of the 15,000 other (or more) groups gets one (or more?) messages deleted? I just told you, you delete the oldest message first. Actually, I can envision a way, but it would require too much CPU overhead to accomplish. I'm no porgramming expert, but most of my programs are database crunchers, which is what the core of NSP server software is. It is far easier to say "I have 5 new messages for group X, which has a message cap of 1000. That group already has 1000 messages, so I'll just delete to 5 oldest ones to make room for the 5 new ones" than it is to say "I just received 5 new messages for group X, but I need to make room on the servers so I need to scan through all 15,000 groups and millions of messages and trillions of bytes to figure out which ones are the oldest and to delete them to make room and hope I can do all this before the next new message arrives in the next few milliseconds." How about having a counter which is set to the oldest date articles are currently stored. When the disk capacity reaches a set value (say 90%), increment the counter by say 6 hours, and go through each group removing all messages older than the new date counter. Just as a point of reference, my most sophisticated programs were used to analyze earthquake databases to statistically analyze prediction methods. Personal use only, so didn't need any fancy interface and could spend all my time optimizing the search routines. BTW, with your proposed method, it is theoretically possible to wipe out the posts from every newsgroup with a large enough flood to only one group. I doubt it. Do you know how large usenet is? There are people posting pirate DVDs faster than a spammer can flood. Hence the caveat "theoretically". Obviously the more capacity a server has, the less likely it is to occur. Your example of DVD postings is a good one. Do you propose to use your method to make room on the servers for these messages just the same as a flood? Why should ABPA loose it's older messages It doesn't. Altopia has a different retention time for multipart binaries (eg DVDs) and single part binaries (eg photos). just because someone decides to post the entire 10 season collection of Stargate SG-1, which is at least 50 DVD's. (I know, I have them) Why not just watch them on the telly like I do? If you want to see one again (I can't think why), you can watch a repeat. -- This message has been brought to you by solar and wind power. Who needs the national grid? http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com Q: If you have a mothball in one hand and another mothball in the other hand, what would you have? A: The undivided attention of a very large moth! |
#64
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Sorry: I don't have a clue what happened. Deleting one at time.
Peter Hucker wrote in
: On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 05:29:16 -0000, Skywise wrote: Your example of DVD postings is a good one. Do you propose to use your method to make room on the servers for these messages just the same as a flood? Why should ABPA loose it's older messages It doesn't. Altopia has a different retention time for multipart binaries (eg DVDs) and single part binaries (eg photos). Which just goes to show that they have individual settings for each group. It should mean something to you that since Usenet providers have always done things the way they are doing them probably means there's a good reason for it. If for nothing else, it allows the admins to tailor the settings for each group to the needs of the users of that group. This regardless of my ability to convince you or not. just because someone decides to post the entire 10 season collection of Stargate SG-1, which is at least 50 DVD's. (I know, I have them) Why not just watch them on the telly like I do? If you want to see one again (I can't think why), you can watch a repeat. I was simply using it as an example of a potentially large (illegal, of course) upload. There was no need to take a shot at me just because you happen to not like the show. That I like the show is irrelevant. I simply pointed out the fact of it's size and supported that fact by stating I own the series. But it's obvious you are certain you are right, and are using a well know logical fallacy - looking only for evidence that supports your theory and dismissing all evidence that goes against it. Therefore I see no further need to continue this discussion. I get my fill of "true believers" in the psuedoscience forums I partake in. At least there I'm on topic. Apologies to the group for going OT for so long. Brian -- http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? |
#65
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Sorry: I don't have a clue what happened. Deleting one at time.
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 04:22:58 -0000, Skywise
wrote: Peter Hucker wrote in : On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 05:29:16 -0000, Skywise wrote: Your example of DVD postings is a good one. Do you propose to use your method to make room on the servers for these messages just the same as a flood? Why should ABPA loose it's older messages It doesn't. Altopia has a different retention time for multipart binaries (eg DVDs) and single part binaries (eg photos). Which just goes to show that they have individual settings for each group. It should mean something to you that since Usenet providers have always done things the way they are doing them probably means there's a good reason for it. If for nothing else, it allows the admins to tailor the settings for each group to the needs of the users of that group. This regardless of my ability to convince you or not. Here's a reply from the guy running Altopia: Does Altopia remove articles after x days have passed, or is there a certain disk space allocated to each group? Neither. Altopia classifies messages based on certain characteristics (text/binary, size, # of parts) and then stores a message based on that determination into what are called storage classes. The virtual volumes for each class are essentially big circular buffers. New messages overwrite the oldest messages on an ongoing basis. There is no concept of a daily expire. A single group can have messages of each storage class contained in it. This results in groups containing multi-month old text messages while only maintaining multi-day old binaries. Current retention, for each class, is up at: https://www.altopia.com/retention/retention.html Let me know if you have any more questions about this. Chris Caputo President, Altopia Corporation just because someone decides to post the entire 10 season collection of Stargate SG-1, which is at least 50 DVD's. (I know, I have them) Why not just watch them on the telly like I do? If you want to see one again (I can't think why), you can watch a repeat. I was simply using it as an example of a potentially large (illegal, of course) upload. There was no need to take a shot at me just because you happen to not like the show. I do like the show, which is why I wrote "like I do". That I like the show is irrelevant. I simply pointed out the fact of it's size and supported that fact by stating I own the series. But it's obvious you are certain you are right, and are using a well know logical fallacy - looking only for evidence that supports your theory and dismissing all evidence that goes against it. Therefore I see no further need to continue this discussion. I get my fill of "true believers" in the psuedoscience forums I partake in. At least there I'm on topic. Apologies to the group for going OT for so long. Brian This message has been brought to you by solar and wind power. Who needs the national grid? http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com Women are not served here. You have to bring your own. |
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