How cool is VL2

In sci.physics, Art Deco

wrote
on Sat, 05 May 2007 13:06:04 -0600
:
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

As for the actual temperature -- I'd have to do some research.
Basically, radiant energy is impinging on an object floating in space,
and that object radiates the energy back out at a lower wavelength.
The temperature of that object is presumably estimatable but I for one
would have to do quite a bit of research.

Spacecraft thermal balance testing -- performed in large vacuum
chambers with Xenon illumination. A critical aspect of verifying
flight readiness.

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstor...M+E491-73(2004)
e1


Heh. Not sure it's worth $47 for me but clearly it's been given some
thought. :-)

--
#191,
Linux makes one use one's mind.
Windows just messes with one's head.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

In sci.physics, Art Deco

wrote
on Sat, 05 May 2007 13:06:04 -0600
:
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

As for the actual temperature -- I'd have to do some research.
Basically, radiant energy is impinging on an object floating in space,
and that object radiates the energy back out at a lower wavelength.
The temperature of that object is presumably estimatable but I for one
would have to do quite a bit of research.

Spacecraft thermal balance testing -- performed in large vacuum
chambers with Xenon illumination. A critical aspect of verifying
flight readiness.

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstor...M+E491-73(2004)
e1


Heh. Not sure it's worth $47 for me but clearly it's been given some
thought. :-)

It was only intended as an example for Brad to see how the problem is
measured in the real world, as opposed to GuthWorld, which consists of
demanding that others do his work for him.

--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco

"Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting
renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum."
-- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief

"Of doing Venus in person would obviously incorporate a composite
rigid airship, along with it's internal cache of frozen pizza and
ice cold beer."
-- Brad Guth, bigoted racist

On May 5, 8:54 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I will stick by the 25% insolation value, as it's the most logical given
the data I have. A computer is useless without software -- or have you
tried running a contemporary PC without a copy of Windows or Linux
installed thereon?

Good grief, even a free CAD program will draw this one out to a 1:1
scale. At worse VL2 is offering an isolation of 75%. I think you're
on the wrong side of Venus if you're only getting 25% isolation.


I can point you at a theoretical radiance curve, if you like; that curve
details temperature versus wavelength versus amplitude.

That would be very good to work with. Thanks, I'll take you up on
that offer.


I'd guess that it's around 298 * (.46)^(1/4) = 245 kelvin,
well below freezing (273 K), since there is a T^4 component
in the equation, if memory serves. (The 46% is compared to
Earth's insolation.) Of course that can be rectified by
extending out the POOF with adjustable aluminum reflectors,
directing some of the energy appropriately.

Thanks for all the efforts. I'll look forward to seeing whatever
corrections, adjustments and/or improvements in those numbers. As I
can best manage, I'll also share my rough estimates, although being on
such a pesky need to know basis makes it a little extra tough, as even
ESA's Venus EXPRESS thermal data is either extremely hard to come by,
encrypted or simply taboo/nondisclosure rated.
-
Brad Guth

In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on 5 May 2007 18:22:31 -0700
. com:
On May 5, 8:54 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I will stick by the 25% insolation value, as it's the most logical given
the data I have. A computer is useless without software -- or have you
tried running a contemporary PC without a copy of Windows or Linux
installed thereon?

Good grief, even a free CAD program will draw this one out to a 1:1
scale. At worse VL2 is offering an isolation of 75%. I think you're
on the wrong side of Venus if you're only getting 25% isolation.

You are confusing the term "insolation" -- sunlight -- with "isolation".

To clarify: your POOF will receive 25% of the illumination,
per square meter, that an identically-sized area near
Venus would receive. (I can't say "on Venus" because of
the clouds, which are at best translucent.)



I can point you at a theoretical radiance curve, if you like; that curve
details temperature versus wavelength versus amplitude.

That would be very good to work with. Thanks, I'll take you up on
that offer.


I'd guess that it's around 298 * (.46)^(1/4) = 245 kelvin,
well below freezing (273 K), since there is a T^4 component
in the equation, if memory serves. (The 46% is compared to
Earth's insolation.) Of course that can be rectified by
extending out the POOF with adjustable aluminum reflectors,
directing some of the energy appropriately.

Thanks for all the efforts. I'll look forward to seeing whatever
corrections, adjustments and/or improvements in those numbers. As I
can best manage, I'll also share my rough estimates, although being on
such a pesky need to know basis makes it a little extra tough, as even
ESA's Venus EXPRESS thermal data is either extremely hard to come by,
encrypted or simply taboo/nondisclosure rated.

Good luck on finding funding. :-)

-
Brad Guth


--
#191,
Conventional memory has to be one of the most UNconventional
architectures I've seen in a computer system.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On May 5, 7:20 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on 5 May 2007 18:22:31 -0700
. com:

On May 5, 8:54 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I will stick by the 25% insolation value, as it's the most logical given
the data I have. A computer is useless without software -- or have you
tried running a contemporary PC without a copy of Windows or Linux
installed thereon?

Good grief, even a free CAD program will draw this one out to a 1:1
scale. At worse VL2 is offering an isolation of 75%. I think you're
on the wrong side of Venus if you're only getting 25% isolation.

You are confusing the term "insolation" -- sunlight -- with "isolation".

No, I'm not actually confusing a damn thing, just didn't catch your
extra "n".

That's otherwise correct (I'd missed the "n" in "insolation").
Isolation is otherwise isolation, as I'd been using all along, whereas
you're the one with having used "insolation", as yet another word that
up until now I'd never used. I've always used the 86% ~ 75% isolation
as the common term on behalf of VL2 for several years. At any rate, I
don't believe VL2 has to ever exceed 25% insolation.


To clarify: your POOF will receive 25% of the illumination,
per square meter, that an identically-sized area near
Venus would receive. (I can't say "on Venus" because of
the clouds, which are at best translucent.)

The surface of Venus supposedly receives roughly 11%~15% of 2625 w/m2,
15% = 394 w/m2
(hardly any of that 394 w/m2 is solar IR)

The added distance away from the sun of 1,014,290 km offers roughly
2600 w/m2 to start off with.

I would agree, by way of using a fairly substantial halo orbit, that
which a net solar influx of perhaps as great as 650 w/m2 + IR
planetshine at VL2 is a likely amount of thermal budget for POOF City
to deal with, although that which can otherwise be adjusted downward
to as little as 15% insolation, or possibly increased out to receiving
nearly 50%, as being similar to orbiting the sunny side of Earth.

Moving POOF City somewhat closer to Venus should also be technically
doable, that is within good reason of whatever the onboard ion or
conventional thrusters could manage to sustain. A tethered counter
mass(CM) or perhaps their shuttle craft as the tethered CM at
something greater than 1,015,000 km would allow POOF City to remain as
closer to Venus. Therefore it should be possible to obtain nearly 95%
isolation, along with that bright annular ring of atmospheric
refraction effects that would likely prevent there ever being total
solar isolation, not to forget the solar wind of hot ions passing by,
as well as whatever upper atmospheric elements that are being
extracted by that same solar wind.


I can point you at a theoretical radiance curve, if you like; that curve
details temperature versus wavelength versus amplitude.

That would be very good to work with. Thanks, I'll take you up on
that offer.

In other words, you're not really going to even do that little bit of
support.


I'd guess that it's around 298 * (.46)^(1/4) = 245 kelvin,
well below freezing (273 K), since there is a T^4 component
in the equation, if memory serves. (The 46% is compared to
Earth's insolation.) Of course that can be rectified by
extending out the POOF with adjustable aluminum reflectors,
directing some of the energy appropriately.

Thanks for all the efforts. I'll look forward to seeing whatever
corrections, adjustments and/or improvements in those numbers. As I
can best manage, I'll also share my rough estimates, although being on
such a pesky need to know basis makes it a little extra tough, as even
ESA's Venus EXPRESS thermal data is either extremely hard to come by,
encrypted or simply taboo/nondisclosure rated.

Good luck on finding funding. :-)

Thanks anyway for all the usual next to nothing about VL2 or Venus, of
sharing what mostly I already knew, and with all the help of folks
like yourself and as always your best friend Art Deco's ****ology
expertise, there shouldn't be any POOF City funding problems.
-
Brad Guth

In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on 6 May 2007 05:45:58 -0700
om:
On May 5, 7:20 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on 5 May 2007 18:22:31 -0700
. com:

On May 5, 8:54 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I will stick by the 25% insolation value, as it's the most logical given
the data I have. A computer is useless without software -- or have you
tried running a contemporary PC without a copy of Windows or Linux
installed thereon?

Good grief, even a free CAD program will draw this one out to a 1:1
scale. At worse VL2 is offering an isolation of 75%. I think you're
on the wrong side of Venus if you're only getting 25% isolation.

You are confusing the term "insolation" -- sunlight -- with "isolation".

No, I'm not actually confusing a damn thing, just didn't catch your
extra "n".

That's otherwise correct (I'd missed the "n" in "insolation").
Isolation is otherwise isolation, as I'd been using all along, whereas
you're the one with having used "insolation", as yet another word that
up until now I'd never used. I've always used the 86% ~ 75% isolation
as the common term on behalf of VL2 for several years. At any rate, I
don't believe VL2 has to ever exceed 25% insolation.


To clarify: your POOF will receive 25% of the illumination,
per square meter, that an identically-sized area near
Venus would receive. (I can't say "on Venus" because of
the clouds, which are at best translucent.)

The surface of Venus supposedly receives roughly 11%~15% of 2625 w/m2,
15% = 394 w/m2
(hardly any of that 394 w/m2 is solar IR)

The added distance away from the sun of 1,014,290 km offers roughly
2600 w/m2 to start off with.

I would agree, by way of using a fairly substantial halo orbit, that
which a net solar influx of perhaps as great as 650 w/m2 + IR
planetshine at VL2 is a likely amount of thermal budget for POOF City
to deal with, although that which can otherwise be adjusted downward
to as little as 15% insolation, or possibly increased out to receiving
nearly 50%, as being similar to orbiting the sunny side of Earth.

Moving POOF City somewhat closer to Venus should also be technically
doable, that is within good reason of whatever the onboard ion or
conventional thrusters could manage to sustain. A tethered counter
mass(CM) or perhaps their shuttle craft as the tethered CM at
something greater than 1,015,000 km would allow POOF City to remain as
closer to Venus. Therefore it should be possible to obtain nearly 95%
isolation, along with that bright annular ring of atmospheric
refraction effects that would likely prevent there ever being total
solar isolation, not to forget the solar wind of hot ions passing by,
as well as whatever upper atmospheric elements that are being
extracted by that same solar wind.


I can point you at a theoretical radiance curve, if you like; that curve
details temperature versus wavelength versus amplitude.

That would be very good to work with. Thanks, I'll take you up on
that offer.

In other words, you're not really going to even do that little bit of
support.

I'm having some trouble finding an actual curve, but here's
the Stefan-Boltzmann Law -- which is what I was referring
to earlier regarding the fourth power of temperature.
This may assist you in your calculations of the average
temperature of the POOF, given a certain amount of
radiation *in* (which has to equal the radiation *out*,
though not necessarily in the same wavelengths).

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...mo/stefan.html

The built-in Javascript calculator is hooked up backwards for your
purposes (it computes the emission given temperature; you want
temperature given incoming radiation).



I'd guess that it's around 298 * (.46)^(1/4) = 245 kelvin,
well below freezing (273 K), since there is a T^4 component
in the equation, if memory serves. (The 46% is compared to
Earth's insolation.) Of course that can be rectified by
extending out the POOF with adjustable aluminum reflectors,
directing some of the energy appropriately.

Thanks for all the efforts. I'll look forward to seeing whatever
corrections, adjustments and/or improvements in those numbers. As I
can best manage, I'll also share my rough estimates, although being on
such a pesky need to know basis makes it a little extra tough, as even
ESA's Venus EXPRESS thermal data is either extremely hard to come by,
encrypted or simply taboo/nondisclosure rated.

Good luck on finding funding. :-)

Thanks anyway for all the usual next to nothing about VL2 or Venus, of
sharing what mostly I already knew, and with all the help of folks
like yourself and as always your best friend Art Deco's ****ology
expertise, there shouldn't be any POOF City funding problems.

I'll look forward to reading an advert for your VL2 trip in a couple of
years. Interplanetary drive concepts are well established; the main
issues are actually building the rockets. The actual spacecraft might
be more of a challenge, as I do have to ask how it's going to process
the inevitable result of that pizza and beer.

It is admittedly possible that incoming spacecraft bring a baggie, which
is then dropped onto Venus using a small rocket. The perigee of that
orbit merely needs to be inside of Venus' atmosphere.

-
Brad Guth



--
#191,
"Woman? What woman?"

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On May 6, 9:23 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on 6 May 2007 05:45:58 -0700
om:





On May 5, 7:20 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on 5 May 2007 18:22:31 -0700
. com:

On May 5, 8:54 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I will stick by the 25% insolation value, as it's the most logical given
the data I have. A computer is useless without software -- or have you
tried running a contemporary PC without a copy of Windows or Linux
installed thereon?

Good grief, even a free CAD program will draw this one out to a 1:1
scale. At worse VL2 is offering an isolation of 75%. I think you're
on the wrong side of Venus if you're only getting 25% isolation.

You are confusing the term "insolation" -- sunlight -- with "isolation".

No, I'm not actually confusing a damn thing, just didn't catch your
extra "n".

That's otherwise correct (I'd missed the "n" in "insolation").
Isolation is otherwise isolation, as I'd been using all along, whereas
you're the one with having used "insolation", as yet another word that
up until now I'd never used. I've always used the 86% ~ 75% isolation
as the common term on behalf of VL2 for several years. At any rate, I
don't believe VL2 has to ever exceed 25% insolation.

To clarify: your POOF will receive 25% of the illumination,
per square meter, that an identically-sized area near
Venus would receive. (I can't say "on Venus" because of
the clouds, which are at best translucent.)

The surface of Venus supposedly receives roughly 11%~15% of 2625 w/m2,
15% = 394 w/m2
(hardly any of that 394 w/m2 is solar IR)

The added distance away from the sun of 1,014,290 km offers roughly
2600 w/m2 to start off with.

I would agree, by way of using a fairly substantial halo orbit, that
which a net solar influx of perhaps as great as 650 w/m2 + IR
planetshine at VL2 is a likely amount of thermal budget for POOF City
to deal with, although that which can otherwise be adjusted downward
to as little as 15% insolation, or possibly increased out to receiving
nearly 50%, as being similar to orbiting the sunny side of Earth.

Moving POOF City somewhat closer to Venus should also be technically
doable, that is within good reason of whatever the onboard ion or
conventional thrusters could manage to sustain. A tethered counter
mass(CM) or perhaps their shuttle craft as the tethered CM at
something greater than 1,015,000 km would allow POOF City to remain as
closer to Venus. Therefore it should be possible to obtain nearly 95%
isolation, along with that bright annular ring of atmospheric
refraction effects that would likely prevent there ever being total
solar isolation, not to forget the solar wind of hot ions passing by,
as well as whatever upper atmospheric elements that are being
extracted by that same solar wind.

I can point you at a theoretical radiance curve, if you like; that curve
details temperature versus wavelength versus amplitude.

That would be very good to work with. Thanks, I'll take you up on
that offer.

In other words, you're not really going to even do that little bit of
support.

I'm having some trouble finding an actual curve, but here's
the Stefan-Boltzmann Law -- which is what I was referring
to earlier regarding the fourth power of temperature.
This may assist you in your calculations of the average
temperature of the POOF, given a certain amount of
radiation *in* (which has to equal the radiation *out*,
though not necessarily in the same wavelengths).

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...mo/stefan.html

The built-in Javascript calculator is hooked up backwards for your
purposes (it computes the emission given temperature; you want
temperature given incoming radiation).







I'd guess that it's around 298 * (.46)^(1/4) = 245 kelvin,
well below freezing (273 K), since there is a T^4 component
in the equation, if memory serves. (The 46% is compared to
Earth's insolation.) Of course that can be rectified by
extending out the POOF with adjustable aluminum reflectors,
directing some of the energy appropriately.

Thanks for all the efforts. I'll look forward to seeing whatever
corrections, adjustments and/or improvements in those numbers. As I
can best manage, I'll also share my rough estimates, although being on
such a pesky need to know basis makes it a little extra tough, as even
ESA's Venus EXPRESS thermal data is either extremely hard to come by,
encrypted or simply taboo/nondisclosure rated.

Good luck on finding funding. :-)

Thanks anyway for all the usual next to nothing about VL2 or Venus, of
sharing what mostly I already knew, and with all the help of folks
like yourself and as always your best friend Art Deco's ****ology
expertise, there shouldn't be any POOF City funding problems.

I'll look forward to reading an advert for your VL2 trip in a couple of
years. Interplanetary drive concepts are well established; the main
issues are actually building the rockets. The actual spacecraft might
be more of a challenge, as I do have to ask how it's going to process
the inevitable result of that pizza and beer.

It is admittedly possible that incoming spacecraft bring a baggie, which
is then dropped onto Venus using a small rocket. The perigee of that
orbit merely needs to be inside of Venus' atmosphere.

-
BradGuth

--
#191,
"Woman? What woman?"

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Perhaps we can put the likes of Martha Stewart to work on
accomplishing the best formula for making those tonnes of pizza
(either that or I'll simply contract everything over to that UW pub of
the Northlake Tavern), and otherwise commercial beer providers will
help us nail down whatever's necessary for accommodating that nifty
cache of ice cold beer. I'm certain that those UW wizards can help
figure out how to nitrogen flood, vacuum-pack and otherwise freeze
such pizza, with most of that trial and error research taking place at
their Northlake Tavern.

Otherwise, I appreciate your seemingly honest but rather skewed
intentions, of having thus far contributed whatever is least
informative, such as to your thermal budget of VL2 remains as somewhat
in the realm of 25% insolation, as perhaps representing the upper most
solar influx that such station-keeping would have to deal with, is
still merely a cool 650 w/m2 that's rather easily further shaded and/
or exposed to whatever extent is required.

That schedule of 2 years down the pike to VL2 is being a bit too much
cart before the horse for anything POOF City worthy, yet robotics are
certainly more than capable of accomplishing that VL2 task as is.

I have located some additional information of "Spaceflight Plant
Chamber Design / Sunlight spectrum UV~IR: 1390 W/m2" that might help
those having the expertise or interest in figuring such things out.
I'll post such information for good measure of hoping that something
constructive on behalf of safely station-keeping at VL2 will become
the case.
-
Brad Guth

In order to accommodate our frail DNA at Venus L2 (aka VL2 POOF City)
is going to take some expertise that's well above what little most of
us currently understand. Obviously the Bigelow team of applied POOF
physics shouldn't have any problems. However, the following bits of
information should help the rest of us village idiots process towards
having a somewhat better understanding.

Shuttle @ISS reveives 1354~1374 w/m2 + planet and moon IR shine
Planetshine IR Heat Flux [W/m2]
earthshine radiance IR [W/m2] = 266 w/m2 (day/night average)
venusshine radiance IR [W/m2] = 532 w/m2 ? (nighttime)
Our moon's IR shine IR [W/m2] = 685 w/m2 ? (daytime)

Spaceflight Plant Chamber Design / Sunlight spectrum UV~IR: 1390 W/m2
http://europa.ieec.fcr.es/english/fo...esentation.pdf
The Sun is characterised as a blackbody emitting radiation at 5762 K
· The average solar radiation falling at right angles at a distance
of 1 AU is called the Solar Constant (1371 +/ - 10 W/ m 2 )
· In actual fact the Solar irradiation is not constant:
- Negligible 11- year Solar cycle (0.5% variability)
- Stationality caused by the Earth elliptical orbit (3.5% variability)

From LEO, earth albedo shifts fro as great as 60% yo as little as 20%
Flux (W/m2) (H=600km) (H=35,786 km)
Solar (*) 1371 1371 F (D)
IR shine (**) 326 9.0
Albedo (***) 343 4.0

Example: sphere in space
Material á å á/å T sphere (K)
Gold on Al 0.26 0.03 8.7 478.8
Black paint 0.95 0.85 1.1 285.5
Kapton on Al 0.48 0.81 0.6 245.4
White paint 0.20 0.85 0.2 186.4

Polar orbit around the Moon, altitude of 100 km
· Spin- stabilised S/C, with spin axis kept perpendicular to polar
orbit plane
by day = 400 K (+127°C)
by night = 85 k (-188°C)

ESA Thermal Analysis Tools developed & maintained by Alstom, see:
http://www.techcentreuk.power.alstom.com/
-
While upon the nighttime surface of the moon = 110 K (-163°C)
Interstellar, such as our Sol L1 -- Sirius = 5~10 K (-265°C)
The extremely cold deep space sink temperature = ~3K (-270°C)
-

How much our moon contributes to global warming is simply not the
insignificant amount that's being mainstream suggested. How top
secret is the station-keeping thermal budget of our moon's L1, or for
that of Venus L2 is however worth our further appreciating, especially
since there's no good reasons for such scientific banishment.

Obviously whenever I've asked of others to suggest or estimate the
thermal budget considerations at Venus L2(VL2), as such there really
shouldn't have been any insurmountable problems, yet lo and behold
there was nothing but another gauntlet of insurmountable flak and/or
naysayism running amuck, telling me that we're still bucking up
against that pesky need to know basis or otherwise getting blocked by
their mainstream taboo/nondisclosure policy, as likely the same
infomercial spewing policy as to why ESA's Venus EXPRESS mission's PFS
instrument has been kept need-to-know, off-line or otherwise as having
been remote terminated by those wishing to keep their previous lies as
to why Venus is so ungodly greenhouse hot as the one and only official
scientific interpretation.

This nearly insurmountable gauntlet of infomercial science, of either
disinformation or simply that of evidence exclusion is not by any
mistake or by some perfectly innocent skewed reasoning, but rather as
a direct result of orchestrated efforts and the actions of others in
direct benefit, as taken on by the very highest levels of religion and
of their puppet governments that'll obviously do whatever it takes for
keeping such lids on tight, such lies in place, as well as published
into those textbooks and science journals that count, and even as
having been NOVA televised production worthy.

Sadly, we are currently being lied to about our moon and Venus, and
thus far I can't even exclude Sirius from being at risk of having been
a good part of those other two lies. Earth's planetology is simply
too unlike Mars, Venus and especially unlike our salty old moon with
all of those substantial yet so unusually shallow craters (as though
that moon of ours had once upon a time a substantial layer of ice on
deck). In fact, all other planets and moons of this DNA limited solar
system are simply too happenstance and/or individually weird to
explain as having been created early on by the very same cloud of
stellar composition, as that of our sun along with such an odd
collection of planets and moons. If to be accepting the existing
explanations as to all that we supposedly know, it's as though our
solar system was the one and only such solar system that so happened
to be in the one and only exact best of all locations for having
benefitted from all else we can perceive, that's within the existing
scope of modern astronomy and as otherwise explained by those regular
or even conditional laws of physics, whereas the odds of that being
the case are just slightly more than astronomical, if not greater than
Godly.

The missing mass of Sirius-B (3X 4X solar mass), and of whatever
associated planets, moons or icy Oort cloud debris that became 'red-
giant phase' consummed and/or pushed away from that robust star system
is nothing short of being the most likely holy grail of whatever
contributed the greater substance to the complex assumulation of
becoming part our solar system, yet the Sirius star/solar system is
still treated as taboo/nondisclosure, as well as excluded and/or
banished from whatever 3D interactive simulations, and just plain and
silply intellectually banished as though it doesn't exist.

The best reason(s) for accomplishing POOF City at VL2 is that there
has been more than sufficient evidence that Venus is substantially
less old than Earth, as well as having accommodated intelligent other
life, though unfortunately we're so totally snookered and/or
dumbfounded past the point of no return, that which auto-rejects upon
such other intelligent life as having been existing/coexisting where
it's supposedly too hot and nasty for our DNA and thereby doesn't
matter (regardless of whatever applied technology or alternative
evolution), especially being naysay worthy to those in charge of
officially interpreting whatever, and otherwise in charge of having
been publishing and/or promoting as to whatever's worthy of receiving
our best talents and resources. It's like going back to the circus,
whereas all that you get to see is in one way or another an illusion
or deliberate hocus-pocus act of clowns having been deceiving those of
us in the audience, and for the most part we keep returning to that
infomercial skewed circus for the eye-popping candy and/or mind
binding entertainment value that has little if anything to do with the
truth.

After all, being a faith-based happy camper is all that matters.
Right?
-
Brad Guth

On May 3, 7:56 pm, "Brad Guth" wrote:
"Brad Guth" wrote in message

news:943268f4698ce93ff8aabb231b766a9b.49644@mygate .mailgate.org

Venus L2(VL2) is supposedly 1,014,300 km 1,014,200 km = 86% shaded by
Venus, receiving 14% worth of the solar photosphere plus a little extra
illumination.

As per usual, the incest mutated naysay mindset of Usenet is stuck
deeply into the nearest space toilet.

There's lots of absolutely nifty things (all good) about POOF City at
Venus L2. Unfortunately, not even Usenet cam.misc is up to the task.

It's as though the topic/author taboo is still in full swing, of
covering thy silly Usenet butts. Even the MI/NSA spooks and moles have
backed off from this one.
-
Brad Guth

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server -http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Sorry, I don't happen use such a good spell checker, or otherwise can
I always control my dyslexic encrypted mindset. The following is
slightly improved on those two counts.

Venus L2 is cool (almost too cool), with less than 25% insolation.

In order to accommodate our frail DNA at Venus L2 (aka VL2 POOF City)
is going to take some expertise that's well above what little most of
us outsiders currently understand. Obviously the Bigelow team of such
expertise and applied POOF physics shouldn't have any problems.
However, the following bits of information should otherwise help the
rest of us village idiots process towards having a somewhat better
understanding, as to why VL2 is so much more doable than our moon's L1
(aka Clarke Station or that of my spendy LSE-CM/ISS).

Shuttle @ISS reveives 1354~1374 w/m2 + planet and moon IR shine
Planetshine IR Heat Flux [W/m2]
earthshine radiance IR [W/m2] = 266 w/m2 (day/night average)
venusshine radiance IR [W/m2] = 532 w/m2 ? (nighttime)
Our moon's IR shine IR [W/m2] = 685 w/m2 ? (daytime)

Spaceflight Plant Chamber Design / Sunlight spectrum UV~IR: 1390 W/m2
http://europa.ieec.fcr.es/english/fo...esentation.pdf
The Sun is characterised as a blackbody emitting radiation at 5762 K
· The average solar radiation falling at right angles at a distance
of 1 AU is called the Solar Constant (1371 +/ - 10 W/ m 2 )
· In actual fact the Solar irradiation is not constant:
- Negligible 11- year Solar cycle (0.5% variability)
- Stationality caused by the Earth elliptical orbit (3.5% variability)

From LEO, earth albedo shifts fro as great as 60% yo as little as 20%
Flux (W/m2) (H=600km) (H=35,786 km)
Solar (*) 1371 1371 F (D)
IR shine (**) 326 9.0
Albedo (***) 343 4.0

Example: sphere in space
Material á å á/å T sphere (K)
Gold on Al 0.26 0.03 8.7 478.8
Black paint 0.95 0.85 1.1 285.5
Kapton on Al 0.48 0.81 0.6 245.4
White paint 0.20 0.85 0.2 186.4

Polar orbit around the Moon, altitude of 100 km
· Spin- stabilised S/C, with spin axis kept perpendicular to polar
orbit plane
by day = 400 K (+127°C)
by night = 85 k (-188°C)

ESA Thermal Analysis Tools developed & maintained by Alstom, see:
http://www.techcentreuk.power.alstom.com/
-
While upon the nighttime surface of the moon = 110 K (-163°C)
Interstellar, such as our Sol L1 -- Sirius = 5~10 K (-265°C)
The extremely cold deep space sink temperature = ~3K (-270°C)
-

Of how much our moon contributes to global warming is simply not the
insignificant amount that's being mainstream suggested, especially as
such gravity influence creates friction upon and within this 98.5%
fluid Earth. How top secret is the station-keeping thermal budget of
our moon's L1, or for that of Venus L2 is however worth our further
appreciating, especially since there's no good reasons for such
continued scientific banishment.

Whenever I've asked of others to suggest or estimate upon the thermal
budget considerations at Venus L2(VL2), as such there really shouldn't
have been any insurmountable problems, yet lo and behold there has
been nothing but another gauntlet of insurmountable flak and/or
naysayism running amuck, telling me that we're still bucking up
against that pesky need to know basis or otherwise getting blocked by
their mainstream taboo/nondisclosure policy, as likely the same
infomercial spewing policy as to why ESA's Venus EXPRESS mission's PFS
instrument has been kept need-to-know, off-line or otherwise as having
been remote terminated by those wishing to keep their previous lies as
to why Venus is so ungodly greenhouse hot as the one and only official
scientific interpretation.

This nearly insurmountable gauntlet of infomercial science, of either
disinformation or simply that of evidence exclusion is not by any
mistake or by some perfectly innocent skewed reasoning, but rather as
a direct result of orchestrated efforts and the actions of others in
direct benefit, as taken on by the very highest levels of religion and
of their puppet governments that'll obviously do whatever it takes for
keeping such lids on tight, such lies in place, as well as published
into those textbooks and science journals that count, and even as
having been NOVA televised production worthy.

Sadly, we are currently being lied to about our moon and Venus, and
thus far I can't even exclude Sirius from being at risk of having been
a good extension of those other two lies. Earth's planetology is
simply too unlike Mars, Venus and especially unlike our salty old moon
with all of those substantial yet so unusually shallow craters (as
though that moon of ours had once upon a time a fairly substantial
layer of ice on deck). In fact, all other planets and moons of this
DNA limited solar system are simply too happenstance and/or
individually weird to explain as having been created early on by the
very same cloud of stellar composition, as that of our sun along with
such an odd collection of planets and moons. If to be accepting the
existing explanations as to all that we supposedly know, it's as
though ours was the one and only such solar system that so happened to
be in the one and only exact best of all locations for having
benefitted from all else we can perceive, that's within the existing
scope of modern astronomy and as otherwise explained by those regular
or even conditional laws of physics, whereas the odds of that being
the case are just slightly more than astronomical, if not greater than
Godly.

The missing mass of Sirius-B (3X 4X solar mass), and of whatever
associated planets, moons or icy Oort cloud debris that became (red-
giant phase) consummed and/or pushed away from that robust star system
is nothing short of being the most likely holy grail of whatever
contributed the greater substance to the complex assimilation of
becoming part our solar system, yet the Sirius star/solar system is
still treated as taboo/nondisclosure, as well as excluded and/or
banished from whatever 3D interactive simulations, and just plain and
silply intellectually banished as though it doesn't exist.

The best reason(s) for accomplishing POOF City at VL2 is that there
has been more than sufficient evidence that Venus is substantially
less old than Earth, as well as having accommodated intelligent other
life, though unfortunately we're so totally snookered and/or
dumbfounded past the point of no return, that which most often auto-
rejects upon such other intelligent life as having been existing/
coexisting where it's supposedly too hot and nasty for our DNA and
thereby doesn't matter (regardless of whatever applied technology or
alternative evolution), especially being naysay worthy to those in
charge of officially interpreting whatever, and otherwise in charge of
having been publishing and/or promoting as to whatever's worthy of
receiving our best talents and resources. It's like going back to the
circus, whereas all that you get to see is in one way or another an
illusion or deliberate hocus-pocus act of clowns having been deceiving
those of us in the audience, and for the most part we keep returning
to that infomercial skewed circus for the eye-popping candy and/or
mind binding entertainment value that has little if anything to do
with the truth.

After all, being a faith-based happy camper is all that matters.
Right?
-
Brad Guth

On May 9, 2:16 pm, "T Wake" wrote:

Brad, your nonsense was so longwinded and meaningless, Outlook Express wont
even bring itself to indent it in a reply.

Please, get a hobby or something.

I already have a nifty hobby, and it's lose cannons all the way to
Venus L2, or that of our salty old moon's L1 (you pick).

Venus L2 is cool (almost too cool), with less than 25% insolation.

In order to accommodate our frail DNA at Venus L2 (aka VL2 POOF City
and 19 months at a time, plus whatever pesky to/from commute) is going
to take some expertise that's well above what little most of us
outsiders currently understand. Obviously the Bigelow team of such
expertise and applied POOF physics shouldn't have any problems.
However, the following bits of information should otherwise help the
rest of us village idiots process towards having a somewhat better
understanding, as to why VL2 is so much more doable than our moon's L1
(aka Clarke Station or that of my spendy LSE-CM/ISS).

Shuttle @ISS reveives 1354~1374 w/m2 + planet and moon IR shine
Planetshine IR Heat Flux [W/m2]
earthshine radiance IR [W/m2] = 266 w/m2 (day/night average)
venusshine radiance IR [W/m2] = 532 w/m2 ? (nighttime)
Our moon's IR shine IR [W/m2] = 685 w/m2 ? (daytime)
-

Spaceflight Plant Chamber Design / Sunlight spectrum UV~IR: 1390 W/m2
http://europa.ieec.fcr.es/english/fo...esentation.pdf
The Sun is characterised as a blackbody emitting radiation at 5762 K
· The average solar radiation falling at right angles at a distance
of 1 AU is called the Solar Constant (1371 +/ - 10 W/ m 2 )
· In actual fact the Solar irradiation is not constant:
- Negligible 11- year Solar cycle (0.5% variability)
- Stationality caused by the Earth elliptical orbit (3.5% variability)

From LEO, earth albedo shifts fro as great as 60% yo as little as 20%
Flux (W/m2) (H=600km) (H=35,786 km)
Solar (*) 1371 1371 F (D)
IR shine (**) 326 9.0
Albedo (***) 343 4.0

Example: sphere in space
Material á å á/å T sphere (K)
Gold on Al 0.26 0.03 8.7 478.8
Black paint 0.95 0.85 1.1 285.5
Kapton on Al 0.48 0.81 0.6 245.4
White paint 0.20 0.85 0.2 186.4

Polar orbit around the Moon, altitude of 100 km
· Spin- stabilised S/C, with spin axis kept perpendicular to polar
orbit plane
by day = 400 K (+127°C)
by night = 85 k (-188°C)

ESA Thermal Analysis Tools developed & maintained by Alstom, see:
http://www.techcentreuk.power.alstom.com/
-
While upon the nighttime surface of the moon = 110 K (-163°C)
Interstellar, such as our Sol L1 -- Sirius = 5~10 K (-265°C)
The extremely cold deep space sink temperature = ~3K (-270°C)
-

Of exactly how much our moon contributes to global warming is simply
not the insignificant amount that's being mainstream suggested,
especially as such a terrific mascon/gravity influence creates
friction upon and within this 98.5% fluid Earth. A better question
is; How top secret is the station-keeping thermal budget of our moon's
L1, or rather for that of Venus L2 is however worth our further
appreciating, especially since there's no good reasons for such
continued scientific banishment.

Whenever I've asked of others to suggest or estimate upon the thermal
budget considerations at Venus L2(VL2), as such there really shouldn't
have been any insurmountable problems, yet lo and behold there has
been nothing but another gauntlet of insurmountable flak and/or
naysayism running amuck, telling me that we're still bucking up
against that pesky need to know basis or otherwise getting blocked by
their mainstream taboo/nondisclosure policy, as likely the same
infomercial spewing policy as to why ESA's Venus EXPRESS mission's PFS
instrument has been kept need-to-know, off-line or otherwise as having
been remote terminated by those wishing to keep their previous lies as
to why Venus is so ungodly greenhouse hot as the one and only official
scientific interpretation.

This nearly insurmountable gauntlet of infomercial science, of either
disinformation or simply that of evidence exclusion is not by any
mistake or by some perfectly innocent skewed reasoning, but rather as
a direct result of orchestrated efforts and the actions of others in
direct benefit, as taken on by the very highest levels of religion and
of their puppet governments that'll obviously do whatever it takes for
keeping such lids on tight, such lies in place, as well as published
into those textbooks and science journals that count, and even as
having been NOVA televised production worthy.

Sadly, we are currently being flat out lied to about our moon and
Venus, and thus far I can't even exclude Sirius from being at risk of
having been a good extension of those other two lies. Earth's
planetology is simply too unlike Mars, Venus and especially unlike our
salty old moon with all of those substantial yet so unusually shallow
craters (as though that moon of ours had once upon a time a fairly
substantial layer of ice on deck). In fact, all other planets and
moons of this DNA limited solar system are simply too happenstance and/
or individually weird to explain as having been created early on by
the very same cloud of stellar composition, as that of our sun along
with such an odd collection of planets and moons. If to be accepting
the existing explanations as to all that we supposedly know, it's as
though ours was the one and only such solar system that so happened to
be in the one and only exact best of all locations for having
benefitted from all else we can perceive, that's within the existing
scope of modern astronomy and as otherwise explained by those regular
or even conditional laws of physics, whereas the odds of that being
the case are just slightly more than astronomical, if not greater than
Godly.

The missing mass of Sirius-B (3X 4X solar mass), and of whatever
associated planets, moons or icy Oort cloud debris that became (red-
giant phase) consummed and/or pushed away from that robust star system
is nothing short of being the most likely holy grail of whatever
contributed the greater substance to the complex assimilation of
becoming part our solar system, yet the Sirius star/solar system is
still treated as taboo/nondisclosure, as well as excluded and/or
banished from whatever 3D interactive simulations, and just plain and
silply intellectually banished as though it doesn't exist.

The best of reason(s) for accomplishing POOF City at VL2 is that there
has been more than sufficient evidence that Venus is substantially
less old than Earth, as well as having accommodated intelligent other
life, though unfortunately we're so totally snookered and/or
dumbfounded past the point of no return, that which most often auto-
rejects upon such other intelligent life as having been existing/
coexisting where it's supposedly too hot and nasty for our DNA and
thereby doesn't matter (regardless of whatever applied technology or
alternative evolution), especially being naysay worthy to those in
charge of officially interpreting whatever, and otherwise in charge of
having been publishing and/or promoting as to whatever's worthy of
receiving our best talents and resources. It's like going back to the
circus, whereas all that you get to see is in one way or another an
illusion or deliberate hocus-pocus act of clowns having been deceiving
those of us in the audience, and for the most part we keep returning
to that BIG TOP of your infomercial skewed circus for the eye-popping
candy and/or mind binding entertainment value that has little if
anything to do with the truth.

After all, being a faith-based happy camper is all that matters.
Right?
-
Brad Guth