Rocketeer for real ?

Ok, i guess everybody saw the daredevil austrian Felix Baumgarten skydive
across the la Manche the other day. If not, here's Reuters online video
story about it:
http://reuters.feedroom.com/index.js...ry=7e1d3d05728
54b6df5740068493278d9498dc13d
Im a novice skydiver myself, and im constantly amazed about the stuff that
more experienced fellow skydivers are able to pull off in freefall.

Now everybody has seen the Rocketeer and various other comic book heroes
zipping across the skies and had a good laugh.

What if .. we had a 400lbf class cheap, reliable, non-toxic and above all
safe rocket engine ( sounds familiar ? ) and a daredevil skydiver,
willing to strap it on his back ( with jettison capability, of course, and
limited fuel, and .. etc, meaning all safety precautions taken ) and jumping
out of the plane at regular 4km altitude. The rocket of course must be
throttleable, and must provide for immediate shutdown. Also the fixture has
to provide for fast jettison and not endanger the skydiver. But if all those
precautions were taken, i think i know a couple of guys who would be willing
to jump and ignite.
Now, is this line of thought just complete ********, or this is an idea to
help promote safe rockets and perhaps a new kind of extreme sport ? People
are doing BASE jumps and birdman jumps after all, so why not take a rocket
and accelerate in the other direction for a change ?

-kert

Kaido Kert wrote:
Ok, i guess everybody saw the daredevil austrian Felix Baumgarten skydive
across the la Manche the other day. If not, here's Reuters online video
story about it:
http://reuters.feedroom.com/index.js...ry=7e1d3d05728
54b6df5740068493278d9498dc13d
Im a novice skydiver myself, and im constantly amazed about the stuff that
more experienced fellow skydivers are able to pull off in freefall.

Now everybody has seen the Rocketeer and various other comic book heroes
zipping across the skies and had a good laugh.

What if .. we had a 400lbf class cheap, reliable, non-toxic and above all
safe rocket engine ( sounds familiar ? ) and a daredevil skydiver,
willing to strap it on his back ( with jettison capability, of course, and
limited fuel, and .. etc, meaning all safety precautions taken ) and jumping
out of the plane at regular 4km altitude. The rocket of course must be
throttleable, and must provide for immediate shutdown. Also the fixture has

There exist several jet engines that would provide enough
thrust to sustain a modest climb in such a suit.
http://www.airtoi.com/ has a list of them.
The ISP is way higher than that of rockets, meaning much less fuel is needed,
or longer flights.
I think takeoff is a bad idea.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
If you've been pounding nails with your forehead for years, it may feel strange
the first time somebody hands you a hammer.
But that doesn't mean that you should strap the hammer to a headband just to
give your skull that old familiar jolt. -- Wayne Throop, during the `TCL Wars'

There is the rocket packs seen in the movie "Thunderball" and at the 1984 LA
Olympics, but those things have a very short range. Since we're still talking a
relatively low altitude capability, an air-breather engine would probably be
more practical, although you are still limited to a very small fuel capacity.

Stephen "FPilot" Bierce/IPMS #35922
{Sig Quotes Removed on Request}

I like a variation on this idea for troop extraction.

Suppose you have fifty or so soldiers in a bad situation, say, dense
urban environment, some wounded, badly outnumbered, reinforcements not
immediately available.

Suppose you can drop equipment to them. I like robot paragliders for
this task. So you drop them rockets.

To get out, each guy puts on a harness, similar to a rappelling or
rock-climbing harness. He connects a line coming from the back end of
the rocket to the harness. He points the rocket straight up and presses
a buttom.

The rocket quickly ascends to ~50 feet, deploying line behind it. When
the line is fully deployed and goes taught, the main rocket charge
ignites, accelerating the payload (one guy and equipment) to maybe 10000
feet altitude. At that point, the guy deploys a parasail and he has
lots of options.

One option is to glide to safety if it's within a couple miles. I
like this best. I can also imagine midair recovery, but I think this
would have problems with more than a few guys in the air.

Wounded? More robot parachutes and stretchers that can take ~8G.

I know, it sounds like it would hurt a lot of the participants (midair
collisions, finding clear sky in an urban environment, marking your
position with a bunch of rockets). When the alternative is to definitely
get hurt, it might look good.

"Kaido Kert" wrote in message
...
Ok, i guess everybody saw the daredevil austrian Felix Baumgarten skydive
across the la Manche the other day. If not, here's Reuters online video
story about it:

http://reuters.feedroom.com/index.js...ry=7e1d3d05728
54b6df5740068493278d9498dc13d
Im a novice skydiver myself, and im constantly amazed about the stuff that
more experienced fellow skydivers are able to pull off in freefall.

Now everybody has seen the Rocketeer and various other comic book heroes
zipping across the skies and had a good laugh.

What if .. we had a 400lbf class cheap, reliable, non-toxic and above all
safe rocket engine ( sounds familiar ? ) and a daredevil skydiver,
willing to strap it on his back ( with jettison capability, of course, and
limited fuel, and .. etc, meaning all safety precautions taken ) and
jumping
out of the plane at regular 4km altitude. The rocket of course must be
throttleable, and must provide for immediate shutdown. Also the fixture
has
to provide for fast jettison and not endanger the skydiver. But if all
those
precautions were taken, i think i know a couple of guys who would be
willing
to jump and ignite.
Now, is this line of thought just complete ********, or this is an idea to
help promote safe rockets and perhaps a new kind of extreme sport ? People
are doing BASE jumps and birdman jumps after all, so why not take a rocket
and accelerate in the other direction for a change ?


Not if they don't want their limbs ripped off by the aerodynamic forces.

Iain McClatchie wrote:

I like a variation on this idea for troop extraction.

Suppose you have fifty or so soldiers in a bad situation, say, dense
urban environment, some wounded, badly outnumbered, reinforcements not
immediately available.

Suppose you can drop equipment to them. I like robot paragliders for
this task. So you drop them rockets.

To get out, each guy puts on a harness, similar to a rappelling or
rock-climbing harness. He connects a line coming from the back end of
the rocket to the harness. He points the rocket straight up and presses
a buttom.

The rocket quickly ascends to ~50 feet, deploying line behind it. When
the line is fully deployed and goes taught, the main rocket charge
ignites, accelerating the payload (one guy and equipment) to maybe 10000
feet altitude. At that point, the guy deploys a parasail and he has
lots of options.

One option is to glide to safety if it's within a couple miles. I
like this best. I can also imagine midair recovery, but I think this
would have problems with more than a few guys in the air.

Wounded? More robot parachutes and stretchers that can take ~8G.

I know, it sounds like it would hurt a lot of the participants (midair
collisions, finding clear sky in an urban environment, marking your
position with a bunch of rockets). When the alternative is to definitely
get hurt, it might look good.

Forget the rockets.
A McGuire rig on a C-130 would work a lot better.

"Iain McClatchie" wrote in message
om

....
To get out, each guy puts on a harness, similar to a rappelling or
rock-climbing harness. He connects a line coming from the back end of
the rocket to the harness. He points the rocket straight up and presses
a buttom.

The rocket quickly ascends to ~50 feet, deploying line behind it. When
the line is fully deployed and goes taught, the main rocket charge
ignites, accelerating the payload (one guy and equipment) to maybe 10000
feet altitude. At that point, the guy deploys a parasail and he has
lots of options.

One option is to glide to safety if it's within a couple miles. I
like this best. I can also imagine midair recovery, but I think this
would have problems with more than a few guys in the air.

Sounds like a good "James Bond" movie scene!

Tom Clarke


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

What if .. we had a 400lbf class cheap, reliable, non-toxic and above all
safe rocket engine ( sounds familiar ? ) and a daredevil skydiver,
willing to strap it on his back ( with jettison capability, of course, and

Already done, long ago.....

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/arti...RocketBelt.htm

"Christopher Shay" writes:

How about the reverse? One jumps from an airplane wearing a peroxide rocket
belt, which ends your freefall in a hover somewhere near the ground
(hopefully above).
Useful for clandestine insertions? Especially in a place where the slight
humming that a peroxide rocket belt makes won't be heard?

Unfortunately, that "slight humming" was more like a deafening roar.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair

Forget the rockets.
A McGuire rig on a C-130 would work a lot better.

McGuire rigs have worked in the field, so they're obviously useful, although
I think it's significant that no such extraction was attempted in Mogadishu.
I wasn't able to find any references to McGuire rig extractions in urban
environments, nor was I able to find references to McGuire rig-style
extractions of wounded. This last point is extremely significant, as the
really interesting situations to get out of are the ones that have gone bad.

The operational advantage of a rocket lift is that the soldier on the ground
gets to pick the exact time he goes up, and is exposed to the enemy for just
a second or two. Another advantage is that the lift can go straight up, which
is a big advantage in urban environments.

But as I said, all this stuff is predicated on pinpoint delivery of heavy
supplies, which I think is going to involve robot paragliders, and that
technology is still at least a few years from being deployed.