Einstein was an atheist. ACTUALLY EINSTEIN WAS AN IDIOT

"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message news
In article ,
"Painius" wrote:

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

But yet you still refuse to answer any of the questions I have posed
about flowing space theories.

Two for now you should answer is...

Are they disavowing Hubble flow?
Does matter block space, or does space permeate through it?


Who is "they", Phineas? g The Hubble flow
is not being "disavowed". But it's not just the
clusters receding from each other. The Hubble
flow is a flow of energy, and this energy is the
vehicle for the clusters' recession.

Matter and space are forms of energy. Science
presently refers to the "gravitational energy" of
matter and space. The GE is positive for matter
and negative for space. So space flows into
matter. Space flows into each and every atom
of matter. I remember Bill describing it as like
air through the sails of a windmill.

So... what did you think of Appendix V?

--
SMILE... doing it outside might get you to smile inside!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net

Painius wrote:
"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message news
In article ,
"Painius" wrote:

When you write--

". . . Gravity 'curvature' is independent of the
gravity waves 'movement of the curvature'"

...what exactly and precisely do you think it is
that's "curving"?

And PLEASE don't just say, "Space is curving."
I'd like to know precisely what is it about space
that's actually curving. And what is it that the
"movement of the curvature" is actually "waving"?

As a corollary - we are beings that inhabit neither the QM or the GR/SR
regions - we sit inbetween both and we feel disconcerted at the
counter-intuitive predictions of both science, as well as the idea of
infinity and "outside"

Yes, we are all dwellers in what i like to call the
"midro" (not micro, not macro). The disconcerted
feeling "we" feel is very much like the medical
profession's concept and explanation for "pain",
Phineas. It's there for an important reason...

It's there to let us know that something's wrong!

I keep in mind when I question these counter-intuitive notions the
anecdote along the lines :

"I exist!" declares Man, to which the Universe replies "So I see, but
that does not instill in me a sense of obligation".

Bert likes to say that it is we (humans) who have
an obligation to the Universe... he says that the
Universe came up with us so that it can see itself.

By "see", i think he means both meanings: to see,
and to understand.

And since i'm leaving for awhile, and you have
some time to hopefully consider your answer,
what exactly is it about space-time that's
"expanding at an accelerated rate"?

Is it geometry all the way down? g

Well, Phineas, you cute li'l Mother, i cannot fault
you here for not answering the questions. No one
else can answer them scientifically, either. That's
why we like to talk about things like "flowing
space" and related pre-scientific ideas. But while
the concept of a fluid medium for space is as yet
unfounded in astronomy, there is a very strong
foundation in the writings of a very old, almost
seemingly elfish Albert Einstein...

(BTW, i did note that you attempted to answer
these questions in another context, and i must
admit it was an interesting stab. But you fell
into the usual trap surrounding the void-space
paradigm.)

In his lay-oriented work, _RELATIVITY -- THE
SPECIAL AND THE GENERAL THEORY_, Einstein
introduced the concept of flowing space in his
preface, "Note to the Fifteenth Edition". It was
short and sweet, so i shall reproduce it here...

In this edition I have added, as a fifth appendix,
a presentation of my views on the problem of
space in general and on the gradual modifications
of our ideas on space resulting from the influence
of the relativistic view-point. I wished to show
that space-time is not necessarily something to
which one can ascribe a separate existence,
independently of the actual objects of physical
reality. Physical objects are not *in space*, but
these objects are *spatially extended*. In this
way the concept "empty space" loses its meaning.

June 9, 1952 A. EINSTEIN

As noted, this is just the intro. Einstein doesn't
actually take us to the next level in this intro. He
comes through for us in a major fashion when we
read Appendix V, however. It is there, right there in
Appendix V, "Relativity and the Problem of Space".

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

--
SMILE... and light up the UNIVERSE!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Do you have a link to Appenix V? The versions I could find didn't
have it, some noting that Appendix V is still under copyright. That
would make it unavailable for those of us who live exclusively on the
net.

Double-A

"Double-A" wrote in message
ups.com...

Painius wrote:
"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message
news
In article ,
"Painius" wrote:

When you write--

". . . Gravity 'curvature' is independent of the
gravity waves 'movement of the curvature'"

...what exactly and precisely do you think it is
that's "curving"?

And PLEASE don't just say, "Space is curving."
I'd like to know precisely what is it about space
that's actually curving. And what is it that the
"movement of the curvature" is actually "waving"?

As a corollary - we are beings that inhabit neither the QM or the GR/SR
regions - we sit inbetween both and we feel disconcerted at the
counter-intuitive predictions of both science, as well as the idea of
infinity and "outside"

Yes, we are all dwellers in what i like to call the
"midro" (not micro, not macro). The disconcerted
feeling "we" feel is very much like the medical
profession's concept and explanation for "pain",
Phineas. It's there for an important reason...

It's there to let us know that something's wrong!

I keep in mind when I question these counter-intuitive notions the
anecdote along the lines :

"I exist!" declares Man, to which the Universe replies "So I see, but
that does not instill in me a sense of obligation".

Bert likes to say that it is we (humans) who have
an obligation to the Universe... he says that the
Universe came up with us so that it can see itself.

By "see", i think he means both meanings: to see,
and to understand.

And since i'm leaving for awhile, and you have
some time to hopefully consider your answer,
what exactly is it about space-time that's
"expanding at an accelerated rate"?

Is it geometry all the way down? g

Well, Phineas, you cute li'l Mother, i cannot fault
you here for not answering the questions. No one
else can answer them scientifically, either. That's
why we like to talk about things like "flowing
space" and related pre-scientific ideas. But while
the concept of a fluid medium for space is as yet
unfounded in astronomy, there is a very strong
foundation in the writings of a very old, almost
seemingly elfish Albert Einstein...

(BTW, i did note that you attempted to answer
these questions in another context, and i must
admit it was an interesting stab. But you fell
into the usual trap surrounding the void-space
paradigm.)

In his lay-oriented work, _RELATIVITY -- THE
SPECIAL AND THE GENERAL THEORY_, Einstein
introduced the concept of flowing space in his
preface, "Note to the Fifteenth Edition". It was
short and sweet, so i shall reproduce it here...

In this edition I have added, as a fifth appendix,
a presentation of my views on the problem of
space in general and on the gradual modifications
of our ideas on space resulting from the influence
of the relativistic view-point. I wished to show
that space-time is not necessarily something to
which one can ascribe a separate existence,
independently of the actual objects of physical
reality. Physical objects are not *in space*, but
these objects are *spatially extended*. In this
way the concept "empty space" loses its meaning.

June 9, 1952 A. EINSTEIN

As noted, this is just the intro. Einstein doesn't
actually take us to the next level in this intro. He
comes through for us in a major fashion when we
read Appendix V, however. It is there, right there in
Appendix V, "Relativity and the Problem of Space".

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

--
SMILE... and light up the UNIVERSE!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Do you have a link to Appenix V? The versions I could find didn't
have it, some noting that Appendix V is still under copyright. That
would make it unavailable for those of us who live exclusively on the
net.

Double-A


I'll take some time to see if i can find one, AA.

--
SMILE... doing it outside might get you to smile inside!

Indelibly yours,
Paine http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net

"Double-A" wrote in message
ups.com...
Painius wrote:
"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message
news
In article ,
"Painius" wrote:

When you write--

". . . Gravity 'curvature' is independent of the
gravity waves 'movement of the curvature'"

...what exactly and precisely do you think it is
that's "curving"?

And PLEASE don't just say, "Space is curving."
I'd like to know precisely what is it about space
that's actually curving. And what is it that the
"movement of the curvature" is actually "waving"?

As a corollary - we are beings that inhabit neither the QM or the GR/SR
regions - we sit inbetween both and we feel disconcerted at the
counter-intuitive predictions of both science, as well as the idea of
infinity and "outside"

Yes, we are all dwellers in what i like to call the
"midro" (not micro, not macro). The disconcerted
feeling "we" feel is very much like the medical
profession's concept and explanation for "pain",
Phineas. It's there for an important reason...

It's there to let us know that something's wrong!

I keep in mind when I question these counter-intuitive notions the
anecdote along the lines :

"I exist!" declares Man, to which the Universe replies "So I see, but
that does not instill in me a sense of obligation".

Bert likes to say that it is we (humans) who have
an obligation to the Universe... he says that the
Universe came up with us so that it can see itself.

By "see", i think he means both meanings: to see,
and to understand.

And since i'm leaving for awhile, and you have
some time to hopefully consider your answer,
what exactly is it about space-time that's
"expanding at an accelerated rate"?

Is it geometry all the way down? g

Well, Phineas, you cute li'l Mother, i cannot fault
you here for not answering the questions. No one
else can answer them scientifically, either. That's
why we like to talk about things like "flowing
space" and related pre-scientific ideas. But while
the concept of a fluid medium for space is as yet
unfounded in astronomy, there is a very strong
foundation in the writings of a very old, almost
seemingly elfish Albert Einstein...

(BTW, i did note that you attempted to answer
these questions in another context, and i must
admit it was an interesting stab. But you fell
into the usual trap surrounding the void-space
paradigm.)

In his lay-oriented work, _RELATIVITY -- THE
SPECIAL AND THE GENERAL THEORY_, Einstein
introduced the concept of flowing space in his
preface, "Note to the Fifteenth Edition". It was
short and sweet, so i shall reproduce it here...

In this edition I have added, as a fifth appendix,
a presentation of my views on the problem of
space in general and on the gradual modifications
of our ideas on space resulting from the influence
of the relativistic view-point. I wished to show
that space-time is not necessarily something to
which one can ascribe a separate existence,
independently of the actual objects of physical
reality. Physical objects are not *in space*, but
these objects are *spatially extended*. In this
way the concept "empty space" loses its meaning.

June 9, 1952 A. EINSTEIN

As noted, this is just the intro. Einstein doesn't
actually take us to the next level in this intro. He
comes through for us in a major fashion when we
read Appendix V, however. It is there, right there in
Appendix V, "Relativity and the Problem of Space".

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

--
SMILE... and light up the UNIVERSE!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Do you have a link to Appenix V? The versions I could find didn't
have it, some noting that Appendix V is still under copyright. That
would make it unavailable for those of us who live exclusively on the
net.

Double-A

Best i could do in 45 mins was Amazon, AA...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y5beab

It's pretty cheap--$3.80 used. I checked the TOC
and it is indeed the 15th complete with app.5.

Not exactly like my copy (different publishers, mine
pubbed by Crown), but same words.

I'll try again later--have an appt., so gotta go...

--
SMILE... doing it outside might get you to smile inside!

Indelibly yours,
Paine http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net

Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
ups.com...
Painius wrote:
"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message
news In article ,
"Painius" wrote:

When you write--

". . . Gravity 'curvature' is independent of the
gravity waves 'movement of the curvature'"

...what exactly and precisely do you think it is
that's "curving"?

And PLEASE don't just say, "Space is curving."
I'd like to know precisely what is it about space
that's actually curving. And what is it that the
"movement of the curvature" is actually "waving"?

As a corollary - we are beings that inhabit neither the QM or the GR/SR
regions - we sit inbetween both and we feel disconcerted at the
counter-intuitive predictions of both science, as well as the idea of
infinity and "outside"

Yes, we are all dwellers in what i like to call the
"midro" (not micro, not macro). The disconcerted
feeling "we" feel is very much like the medical
profession's concept and explanation for "pain",
Phineas. It's there for an important reason...

It's there to let us know that something's wrong!

I keep in mind when I question these counter-intuitive notions the
anecdote along the lines :

"I exist!" declares Man, to which the Universe replies "So I see, but
that does not instill in me a sense of obligation".

Bert likes to say that it is we (humans) who have
an obligation to the Universe... he says that the
Universe came up with us so that it can see itself.

By "see", i think he means both meanings: to see,
and to understand.

And since i'm leaving for awhile, and you have
some time to hopefully consider your answer,
what exactly is it about space-time that's
"expanding at an accelerated rate"?

Is it geometry all the way down? g

Well, Phineas, you cute li'l Mother, i cannot fault
you here for not answering the questions. No one
else can answer them scientifically, either. That's
why we like to talk about things like "flowing
space" and related pre-scientific ideas. But while
the concept of a fluid medium for space is as yet
unfounded in astronomy, there is a very strong
foundation in the writings of a very old, almost
seemingly elfish Albert Einstein...

(BTW, i did note that you attempted to answer
these questions in another context, and i must
admit it was an interesting stab. But you fell
into the usual trap surrounding the void-space
paradigm.)

In his lay-oriented work, _RELATIVITY -- THE
SPECIAL AND THE GENERAL THEORY_, Einstein
introduced the concept of flowing space in his
preface, "Note to the Fifteenth Edition". It was
short and sweet, so i shall reproduce it here...

In this edition I have added, as a fifth appendix,
a presentation of my views on the problem of
space in general and on the gradual modifications
of our ideas on space resulting from the influence
of the relativistic view-point. I wished to show
that space-time is not necessarily something to
which one can ascribe a separate existence,
independently of the actual objects of physical
reality. Physical objects are not *in space*, but
these objects are *spatially extended*. In this
way the concept "empty space" loses its meaning.

June 9, 1952 A. EINSTEIN

As noted, this is just the intro. Einstein doesn't
actually take us to the next level in this intro. He
comes through for us in a major fashion when we
read Appendix V, however. It is there, right there in
Appendix V, "Relativity and the Problem of Space".

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

--
SMILE... and light up the UNIVERSE!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Do you have a link to Appenix V? The versions I could find didn't
have it, some noting that Appendix V is still under copyright. That
would make it unavailable for those of us who live exclusively on the
net.

Double-A

Best i could do in 45 mins was Amazon, AA...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y5beab

It's pretty cheap--$3.80 used. I checked the TOC
and it is indeed the 15th complete with app.5.

Not exactly like my copy (different publishers, mine
pubbed by Crown), but same words.

I'll try again later--have an appt., so gotta go...

--
SMILE... doing it outside might get you to smile inside!

Indelibly yours,
Paine http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Thanks for trying.

Double-A

Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
ups.com...
Painius wrote:
"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message
news In article ,
"Painius" wrote:

When you write--

". . . Gravity 'curvature' is independent of the
gravity waves 'movement of the curvature'"

...what exactly and precisely do you think it is
that's "curving"?

And PLEASE don't just say, "Space is curving."
I'd like to know precisely what is it about space
that's actually curving. And what is it that the
"movement of the curvature" is actually "waving"?

As a corollary - we are beings that inhabit neither the QM or the GR/SR
regions - we sit inbetween both and we feel disconcerted at the
counter-intuitive predictions of both science, as well as the idea of
infinity and "outside"

Yes, we are all dwellers in what i like to call the
"midro" (not micro, not macro). The disconcerted
feeling "we" feel is very much like the medical
profession's concept and explanation for "pain",
Phineas. It's there for an important reason...

It's there to let us know that something's wrong!

I keep in mind when I question these counter-intuitive notions the
anecdote along the lines :

"I exist!" declares Man, to which the Universe replies "So I see, but
that does not instill in me a sense of obligation".

Bert likes to say that it is we (humans) who have
an obligation to the Universe... he says that the
Universe came up with us so that it can see itself.

By "see", i think he means both meanings: to see,
and to understand.

And since i'm leaving for awhile, and you have
some time to hopefully consider your answer,
what exactly is it about space-time that's
"expanding at an accelerated rate"?

Is it geometry all the way down? g

Well, Phineas, you cute li'l Mother, i cannot fault
you here for not answering the questions. No one
else can answer them scientifically, either. That's
why we like to talk about things like "flowing
space" and related pre-scientific ideas. But while
the concept of a fluid medium for space is as yet
unfounded in astronomy, there is a very strong
foundation in the writings of a very old, almost
seemingly elfish Albert Einstein...

(BTW, i did note that you attempted to answer
these questions in another context, and i must
admit it was an interesting stab. But you fell
into the usual trap surrounding the void-space
paradigm.)

In his lay-oriented work, _RELATIVITY -- THE
SPECIAL AND THE GENERAL THEORY_, Einstein
introduced the concept of flowing space in his
preface, "Note to the Fifteenth Edition". It was
short and sweet, so i shall reproduce it here...

In this edition I have added, as a fifth appendix,
a presentation of my views on the problem of
space in general and on the gradual modifications
of our ideas on space resulting from the influence
of the relativistic view-point. I wished to show
that space-time is not necessarily something to
which one can ascribe a separate existence,
independently of the actual objects of physical
reality. Physical objects are not *in space*, but
these objects are *spatially extended*. In this
way the concept "empty space" loses its meaning.

June 9, 1952 A. EINSTEIN

As noted, this is just the intro. Einstein doesn't
actually take us to the next level in this intro. He
comes through for us in a major fashion when we
read Appendix V, however. It is there, right there in
Appendix V, "Relativity and the Problem of Space".

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

--
SMILE... and light up the UNIVERSE!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Do you have a link to Appenix V? The versions I could find didn't
have it, some noting that Appendix V is still under copyright. That
would make it unavailable for those of us who live exclusively on the
net.

Double-A

Best i could do in 45 mins was Amazon, AA...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y5beab

It's pretty cheap--$3.80 used. I checked the TOC
and it is indeed the 15th complete with app.5.

Not exactly like my copy (different publishers, mine
pubbed by Crown), but same words.

I'll try again later--have an appt., so gotta go...

--
SMILE... doing it outside might get you to smile inside!

Indelibly yours,
Paine http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


If it's such a profound departure, maybe the physics cabal is
suppressing it!

Double-A

"Double-A" wrote in message
oups.com...
Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
ups.com...
Painius wrote:
"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message
news In article
,
"Painius" wrote:

When you write--

". . . Gravity 'curvature' is independent of the
gravity waves 'movement of the curvature'"

...what exactly and precisely do you think it is
that's "curving"?

And PLEASE don't just say, "Space is curving."
I'd like to know precisely what is it about space
that's actually curving. And what is it that the
"movement of the curvature" is actually "waving"?

As a corollary - we are beings that inhabit neither the QM or the
GR/SR
regions - we sit inbetween both and we feel disconcerted at the
counter-intuitive predictions of both science, as well as the idea
of
infinity and "outside"

Yes, we are all dwellers in what i like to call the
"midro" (not micro, not macro). The disconcerted
feeling "we" feel is very much like the medical
profession's concept and explanation for "pain",
Phineas. It's there for an important reason...

It's there to let us know that something's wrong!

I keep in mind when I question these counter-intuitive notions the
anecdote along the lines :

"I exist!" declares Man, to which the Universe replies "So I see,
but
that does not instill in me a sense of obligation".

Bert likes to say that it is we (humans) who have
an obligation to the Universe... he says that the
Universe came up with us so that it can see itself.

By "see", i think he means both meanings: to see,
and to understand.

And since i'm leaving for awhile, and you have
some time to hopefully consider your answer,
what exactly is it about space-time that's
"expanding at an accelerated rate"?

Is it geometry all the way down? g

Well, Phineas, you cute li'l Mother, i cannot fault
you here for not answering the questions. No one
else can answer them scientifically, either. That's
why we like to talk about things like "flowing
space" and related pre-scientific ideas. But while
the concept of a fluid medium for space is as yet
unfounded in astronomy, there is a very strong
foundation in the writings of a very old, almost
seemingly elfish Albert Einstein...

(BTW, i did note that you attempted to answer
these questions in another context, and i must
admit it was an interesting stab. But you fell
into the usual trap surrounding the void-space
paradigm.)

In his lay-oriented work, _RELATIVITY -- THE
SPECIAL AND THE GENERAL THEORY_, Einstein
introduced the concept of flowing space in his
preface, "Note to the Fifteenth Edition". It was
short and sweet, so i shall reproduce it here...

In this edition I have added, as a fifth appendix,
a presentation of my views on the problem of
space in general and on the gradual modifications
of our ideas on space resulting from the influence
of the relativistic view-point. I wished to show
that space-time is not necessarily something to
which one can ascribe a separate existence,
independently of the actual objects of physical
reality. Physical objects are not *in space*, but
these objects are *spatially extended*. In this
way the concept "empty space" loses its meaning.

June 9, 1952 A. EINSTEIN

As noted, this is just the intro. Einstein doesn't
actually take us to the next level in this intro. He
comes through for us in a major fashion when we
read Appendix V, however. It is there, right there in
Appendix V, "Relativity and the Problem of Space".

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

--
SMILE... and light up the UNIVERSE!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Do you have a link to Appenix V? The versions I could find didn't
have it, some noting that Appendix V is still under copyright. That
would make it unavailable for those of us who live exclusively on the
net.

Double-A

Best i could do in 45 mins was Amazon, AA...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y5beab

It's pretty cheap--$3.80 used. I checked the TOC
and it is indeed the 15th complete with app.5.

Not exactly like my copy (different publishers, mine
pubbed by Crown), but same words.

I'll try again later--have an appt., so gotta go...

If it's such a profound departure, maybe the physics cabal is
suppressing it!

Double-A

[tinc] ;-}

--
SMILE... doing it outside might get you to smile inside!

Indelibly yours,
Paine http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net

"Double-A" wrote in message
oups.com...
Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
ups.com...
Painius wrote:
"Phineas T Puddleduck" wrote...
in message
news In article
,
"Painius" wrote:

When you write--

". . . Gravity 'curvature' is independent of the
gravity waves 'movement of the curvature'"

...what exactly and precisely do you think it is
that's "curving"?

And PLEASE don't just say, "Space is curving."
I'd like to know precisely what is it about space
that's actually curving. And what is it that the
"movement of the curvature" is actually "waving"?

As a corollary - we are beings that inhabit neither the QM or the
GR/SR
regions - we sit inbetween both and we feel disconcerted at the
counter-intuitive predictions of both science, as well as the idea
of
infinity and "outside"

Yes, we are all dwellers in what i like to call the
"midro" (not micro, not macro). The disconcerted
feeling "we" feel is very much like the medical
profession's concept and explanation for "pain",
Phineas. It's there for an important reason...

It's there to let us know that something's wrong!

I keep in mind when I question these counter-intuitive notions the
anecdote along the lines :

"I exist!" declares Man, to which the Universe replies "So I see,
but
that does not instill in me a sense of obligation".

Bert likes to say that it is we (humans) who have
an obligation to the Universe... he says that the
Universe came up with us so that it can see itself.

By "see", i think he means both meanings: to see,
and to understand.

And since i'm leaving for awhile, and you have
some time to hopefully consider your answer,
what exactly is it about space-time that's
"expanding at an accelerated rate"?

Is it geometry all the way down? g

Well, Phineas, you cute li'l Mother, i cannot fault
you here for not answering the questions. No one
else can answer them scientifically, either. That's
why we like to talk about things like "flowing
space" and related pre-scientific ideas. But while
the concept of a fluid medium for space is as yet
unfounded in astronomy, there is a very strong
foundation in the writings of a very old, almost
seemingly elfish Albert Einstein...

(BTW, i did note that you attempted to answer
these questions in another context, and i must
admit it was an interesting stab. But you fell
into the usual trap surrounding the void-space
paradigm.)

In his lay-oriented work, _RELATIVITY -- THE
SPECIAL AND THE GENERAL THEORY_, Einstein
introduced the concept of flowing space in his
preface, "Note to the Fifteenth Edition". It was
short and sweet, so i shall reproduce it here...

In this edition I have added, as a fifth appendix,
a presentation of my views on the problem of
space in general and on the gradual modifications
of our ideas on space resulting from the influence
of the relativistic view-point. I wished to show
that space-time is not necessarily something to
which one can ascribe a separate existence,
independently of the actual objects of physical
reality. Physical objects are not *in space*, but
these objects are *spatially extended*. In this
way the concept "empty space" loses its meaning.

June 9, 1952 A. EINSTEIN

As noted, this is just the intro. Einstein doesn't
actually take us to the next level in this intro. He
comes through for us in a major fashion when we
read Appendix V, however. It is there, right there in
Appendix V, "Relativity and the Problem of Space".

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Please read it... read it again if you must, or for the
first time if it's new to you. These are some of the
most profound thoughts i have ever read! And then
we can return here and discuss the idea of flowing
space with a proper basis of information from the
writings of one of the most important physicists of
all time.

--
SMILE... and light up the UNIVERSE!

Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net


Do you have a link to Appenix V? The versions I could find didn't
have it, some noting that Appendix V is still under copyright. That
would make it unavailable for those of us who live exclusively on the
net.

Double-A

Best i could do in 45 mins was Amazon, AA...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y5beab

It's pretty cheap--$3.80 used. I checked the TOC
and it is indeed the 15th complete with app.5.

Not exactly like my copy (different publishers, mine
pubbed by Crown), but same words.

I'll try again later--have an appt., so gotta go...

Thanks for trying.

Double-A


Yeah, i probably found the same stuff you did.
Not even an ebook. An' i no gots a scanner,
sorry.

--
SMILE... doing it outside might get you to smile inside!

Indelibly yours,
Paine http://www.savethechildren.org/
http://www.painellsworth.net

In article
,
"Painius" wrote:

Who is "they", Phineas? g The Hubble flow
is not being "disavowed". But it's not just the
clusters receding from each other. The Hubble
flow is a flow of energy, and this energy is the
vehicle for the clusters' recession.


But if the fluid is expanding, and that fluid is causing gravity......

Matter and space are forms of energy. Science
presently refers to the "gravitational energy" of
matter and space. The GE is positive for matter
and negative for space. So space flows into
matter. Space flows into each and every atom
of matter. I remember Bill describing it as like
air through the sails of a windmill.

And yet you now have a singularity at every atom.


So... what did you think of Appendix V?

I've only had a cursory glance at it since my viva is tomorrow. But that
glance doesn't seem to support any ether position in truth. His arguing
on the nature of space and time in it seems to go the opposite.

--

Saucerhead lingo #2102 "However, since PTP is in reality NOT a budding
astrophysicist..." ... "Perhaps if we try distraction as a tactic people
will forget we cannot answer simple conflicting issues with our nonsense
theory"

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Painius wrote:

My take on this is based upon what i know about
Einstein. I know he very much disliked the idea of
a static, material ether. And his influence led most
other scientists to interpret this as the VSP (the
void-space paradigm). Then, when he wrote and
published his Appendix V at the ripe old age of 73
and about 3 years before he died, most of physics
apparently just chalked it off to the ramblings of a
tired old man.

I do not. I happen to feel that Appendix V was the
most important thing Albert Einstein ever wrote!
And that Appendix V is perhaps one of the most
crucial, important and awesome things ever written
in the entire history of human scribbling!

Only because you deeply *want* to believe space is filled with stuff,
despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.