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It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 11th 04, 04:35 PM
LenderBroker
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Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

PARIS (AFP) - Mars was not only awash with water, it also once had
rainfall, according to a French study.

The evidence comes from infra-red imaging, which probed under dust
deposited over the millions of years and found dense networks of dry
valleys, whose branching bear the hallmarks of having been carved out
by rain.

The research, published in the US journal Science, could prompt a
rewrite of the Martian history books, for it suggests the planet had a
longer "summer" than anyone thought.

The conventional theory is that Mars had a balmy climate during its
infancy, a period called the Noachian era, in which vast volumes of
water flowed on its surface, cutting valleys and eroding the craters
left by asteroids.

Then, around 3.6 billion years ago -- coincidentally, just when the
first signs of life emerged on Earth -- the planet froze, entering the
so-called Hesperian epoch, which lasted around half a billion years.

What remained as water has almost always been locked up as ice, either
at the poles or (so it is hoped) close to the surface, according to
this theory.

The French study, led by Nicolas Mangold of the University of Paris
South, contends though that the rain-carved valleys date from near the
end of the Hesperian -- at a time when the temperature was,
supposedly, far too cold to permit precipitation.

Their analysis is based on data sent back by the thermal Emission
Imaging System (THEMIS), which has been scanning the planet since
October 2001 aboard a NASA (news - web sites) orbiter, Mars Odyssey.

THEMIS' images show images of valleys with extensive branching,
typical of the erosion on Earth caused by rainwater, as well as
meandering curves and inner channels on the valley floors.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 2004 Agence France Presse. All rights reserved.
  #2  
Old July 11th 04, 05:34 PM
Greg Crinklaw
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Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

LenderBroker wrote:
THEMIS' images show images of valleys with extensive branching,
typical of the erosion on Earth caused by rainwater, as well as
meandering curves and inner channels on the valley floors.


It never ceases to amaze me how a publicity department can make what has
been known for years appear to have been discovered yesterday (by the
scientists they are publicizing, of course). This sort of hyperbole
needs to be stopped, and I say the responsibility lies with the
scientists whose work is being reported to keep the hyperbole out of
these publicity announcements.

  #3  
Old July 11th 04, 05:34 PM
Greg Crinklaw
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Posts: n/a
Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

LenderBroker wrote:
THEMIS' images show images of valleys with extensive branching,
typical of the erosion on Earth caused by rainwater, as well as
meandering curves and inner channels on the valley floors.


It never ceases to amaze me how a publicity department can make what has
been known for years appear to have been discovered yesterday (by the
scientists they are publicizing, of course). This sort of hyperbole
needs to be stopped, and I say the responsibility lies with the
scientists whose work is being reported to keep the hyperbole out of
these publicity announcements.

  #4  
Old July 11th 04, 06:25 PM
David Nakamoto
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Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message
...
LenderBroker wrote:
THEMIS' images show images of valleys with extensive branching,
typical of the erosion on Earth caused by rainwater, as well as
meandering curves and inner channels on the valley floors.


It never ceases to amaze me how a publicity department can make what has
been known for years appear to have been discovered yesterday (by the
scientists they are publicizing, of course). This sort of hyperbole
needs to be stopped, and I say the responsibility lies with the
scientists whose work is being reported to keep the hyperbole out of
these publicity announcements.



Sorry, but it won't go away, because all science needs funding, from all
possible sources, and if you're going to get funding from people with a
minimal knowledge (and sometimes interest) in science, you need to put in
the WOW! factor. And one way to do it is hyperbole, exaggerated claims, et
al. It might grate on the science purists, hence it does grate on me, and
leads to claims that are prematurely made and not substantiate by later
experiments/observations, but this is the nature of the beast. How to
reform it? I don't know. Government funding works the same way, and for
the same reasons. Even for those who know more science than the average
Joe, not a hard thing to do or accomplish, a little exaggeration never hurt
to promote your cause.

I guess the best advice to this situation comes from my Brooklyn friends;
they would say, "Deal with it." ^_^
--
Sincerely,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man is a god in ruins.
--- Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------


  #5  
Old July 11th 04, 06:25 PM
David Nakamoto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message
...
LenderBroker wrote:
THEMIS' images show images of valleys with extensive branching,
typical of the erosion on Earth caused by rainwater, as well as
meandering curves and inner channels on the valley floors.


It never ceases to amaze me how a publicity department can make what has
been known for years appear to have been discovered yesterday (by the
scientists they are publicizing, of course). This sort of hyperbole
needs to be stopped, and I say the responsibility lies with the
scientists whose work is being reported to keep the hyperbole out of
these publicity announcements.



Sorry, but it won't go away, because all science needs funding, from all
possible sources, and if you're going to get funding from people with a
minimal knowledge (and sometimes interest) in science, you need to put in
the WOW! factor. And one way to do it is hyperbole, exaggerated claims, et
al. It might grate on the science purists, hence it does grate on me, and
leads to claims that are prematurely made and not substantiate by later
experiments/observations, but this is the nature of the beast. How to
reform it? I don't know. Government funding works the same way, and for
the same reasons. Even for those who know more science than the average
Joe, not a hard thing to do or accomplish, a little exaggeration never hurt
to promote your cause.

I guess the best advice to this situation comes from my Brooklyn friends;
they would say, "Deal with it." ^_^
--
Sincerely,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man is a god in ruins.
--- Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------


  #6  
Old July 12th 04, 05:22 AM
Greg Crinklaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

David Nakamoto wrote:
I guess the best advice to this situation comes from my Brooklyn friends;
they would say, "Deal with it." ^_^


Couldn't possibly disagree more. Deal with it.

  #7  
Old July 12th 04, 05:22 AM
Greg Crinklaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

David Nakamoto wrote:
I guess the best advice to this situation comes from my Brooklyn friends;
they would say, "Deal with it." ^_^


Couldn't possibly disagree more. Deal with it.

  #8  
Old July 12th 04, 09:40 PM
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: n/a
Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:34:46 -0600, Greg Crinklaw
wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me how a publicity department can make what has
been known for years appear to have been discovered yesterday (by the
scientists they are publicizing, of course). This sort of hyperbole
needs to be stopped, and I say the responsibility lies with the
scientists whose work is being reported to keep the hyperbole out of
these publicity announcements.


Having just read the paper, I'm curious what information you think "has been
known for years"?

The paper presents the first good evidence of liquid water flowing on the
surface near the end of the Hesperian epoch. The surface morphology suggests
that rain was the source of the water, in a time when the general presumption
has been that all Martian water was locked up in ice.

The press release seems to accurately describe the paper, and I fail to identify
the hyperbole you are seeing here.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #9  
Old July 12th 04, 09:40 PM
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:34:46 -0600, Greg Crinklaw
wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me how a publicity department can make what has
been known for years appear to have been discovered yesterday (by the
scientists they are publicizing, of course). This sort of hyperbole
needs to be stopped, and I say the responsibility lies with the
scientists whose work is being reported to keep the hyperbole out of
these publicity announcements.


Having just read the paper, I'm curious what information you think "has been
known for years"?

The paper presents the first good evidence of liquid water flowing on the
surface near the end of the Hesperian epoch. The surface morphology suggests
that rain was the source of the water, in a time when the general presumption
has been that all Martian water was locked up in ice.

The press release seems to accurately describe the paper, and I fail to identify
the hyperbole you are seeing here.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #10  
Old July 13th 04, 01:29 AM
Greg Crinklaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default It rained on Mars -- three billion years ago

Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:34:46 -0600, Greg Crinklaw
wrote:


It never ceases to amaze me how a publicity department can make what has
been known for years appear to have been discovered yesterday (by the
scientists they are publicizing, of course). This sort of hyperbole
needs to be stopped, and I say the responsibility lies with the
scientists whose work is being reported to keep the hyperbole out of
these publicity announcements.



Having just read the paper, I'm curious what information you think "has been
known for years"?

The paper presents the first good evidence of liquid water flowing on the
surface near the end of the Hesperian epoch. The surface morphology suggests
that rain was the source of the water, in a time when the general presumption
has been that all Martian water was locked up in ice.

The press release seems to accurately describe the paper, and I fail to identify
the hyperbole you are seeing here.


Yes, it does do that. But it also engages in hyperbole. I quoted the
relevant part (which you snipped from your reply). It has long been
known that *in general* there exist water carved features on Mars. MGS
MOC images have shown this for years. There is a paragraph in this
press releases (coincidentally the one I quoted) that appears to claim
there was no such evidence before the recent results. That is either
self serving hyperbole or at they very least very sloppy writing...

Either way there is no excuse for not doing better, and my point is that
more astronomers/planetary scientists should take responsibility for
what is written by the PR departments at their institutions. Not really
an earth shattering idea, that.

I consider Malin Space Science Systems an example of an organization
that always writes excellent hyperbole free press releases. They set an
excellent example that others should try to emulate. On the other side
you have the kings of hyperbole, the massive press office of the Space
Telescope Science Institute (although they have cleaned up their act
some in recent years).

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

To reply have a physician remove your spleen

 




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