A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Astronomy Misc
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old December 29th 08, 08:08 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Dr J R Stockton[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 426
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

In sci.astro message
ooglegroups.com, Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:49:58,
posted:
THE MOTION OF THE PERIHELION OF MERCURY
In his general relativity calculation of the motion of the perihelion
of Mercury Albert Einstein had only taken into account the
gravitational actions between the Sun and the Mercury, which he also
assumed as two points.

What will be, according to the theory of general relativity, the value
of the motion of the perihelion of Mercury if the gravitational
actions of all the planets in the solar system are taken into account
and also it is taken into account that the Sun is a little oblate?

Have any done these calculations?


See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perihel..._Mercury#Perih
elion_precession_of_Mercury for example.

The "Einstein effect" is 43"/century; the figures for other effects are
: solar oblateness 0.025", other planets 530", co-ordinate system 500",
approximately.

Wikipedia has articles on it in French, Spanish, Portuguese, but not
Danish - presumably because all Danes read English perfectly. The
Iberians have little; but one should read http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Tests_exp%C3%A9rimentaux_de_la_relativit%C3%A9_g%C 3%A9n%C3%A9rale which
is quite independent of that cited above.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
  #12  
Old December 29th 08, 11:29 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On 29 Dec., 16:35, Uncle Al wrote:
wrote:

THE MOTION OF THE PERIHELION OF MERCURY
In his general relativity calculation of the motion of the perihelion
of Mercury Albert Einstein had only taken into account the
gravitational actions between the Sun and the Mercury, which he also
assumed as two points.


What will be, according to the theory of general relativity, the value
of the motion of the perihelion of Mercury if the gravitational
actions of all the planets in the solar system are taken into account
and also it is taken into account that the Sun is a little oblate?


Have any done these calculations?


Robert Dicke. *Einstein was correct.

--
Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/




Uncle Al,
If you are right, please give references to Dicke’s
calculations.

As far as I know Robert Henry Dicke (1916-1997) has not made
calculations about the perihelion motion of Mercury, based on the
general theory of relativity, where he had taken into account the
gravitational actions from all the planets and other matter and energy
in the solar system.

BRANS-DICKE SCALAR-TENSOR THEORY
Robert Dicke has together with Carl Henry Brans in 1961 developed the
Brans-Dicke scalar-tensor theory of gravitation in which the
gravitational ‘constant’ is a variable scalar-function.

Best regards
Louis Nielsen
Denmark


  #14  
Old December 30th 08, 04:35 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
PD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,572
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On Dec 29, 4:29*pm, wrote:
On 29 Dec., 16:35, Uncle Al wrote:



wrote:


THE MOTION OF THE PERIHELION OF MERCURY
In his general relativity calculation of the motion of the perihelion
of Mercury Albert Einstein had only taken into account the
gravitational actions between the Sun and the Mercury, which he also
assumed as two points.


What will be, according to the theory of general relativity, the value
of the motion of the perihelion of Mercury if the gravitational
actions of all the planets in the solar system are taken into account
and also it is taken into account that the Sun is a little oblate?


Have any done these calculations?


Robert Dicke. *Einstein was correct.


--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/


Uncle Al,
If you are right, please give references to Dicke’s
calculations.

As far as I know Robert Henry Dicke (1916-1997) has not made
calculations about the perihelion motion of Mercury, based on the
general theory of relativity, where he had taken into account the
gravitational actions from all the planets and other matter and energy
in the solar system.

BRANS-DICKE SCALAR-TENSOR THEORY
Robert Dicke has together with Carl Henry Brans in 1961 developed the
Brans-Dicke scalar-tensor theory of gravitation in which the
gravitational ‘constant’ is a variable scalar-function.

Best regards
Louis Nielsen
Denmark


He did a little more than that. You could do well to look up more of
his publication list.
While not complete, this link contains a few items of interest to this
discussion:
http://www.nap.edu/html/biomems/rdicke.html
  #15  
Old December 30th 08, 05:57 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Koobee Wublee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On Dec 29, 12:30 am, Eric Gisse wrote:
On Dec 28, 10:07 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:


I suspect this 5,600” per century of perihelion advance is not very
accurate in the first place. I want to see error bars associated with
this experiment. Tell me if that is too much to ask.


Is reading the literature too much to ask?


What literature?

The 43” was calculated based on Paul Gerber’s work. Other
mathematical methods do not yield the same result. shrug


No, it was not "based on Paul Gerber's work".


Gerber pioneered that particular way of deriving differential
equations. Try reading the literature for a change. shrug

All Gerber did was guess
the form of a velocity-dependent potential that would give the same
effects.


Gerber had his reasons. Try reading the literature. Tell me if that
is too much to ask.

The actual analysis was based on the works of Le Verrier.


Le Verrier was an observer equivalent to an experimenter just like
Professor Roberts. Le Verrier did not do any detailed analyses in the
same level as Gerber. Try to read the literature. shrug

Do you have a literature reference for the assertion that other
methods "do not yield the same result", or is this more of your
typical nonsense that has no scholarly backing?


Of course. How much do you want to pay for that?


  #16  
Old December 30th 08, 05:58 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Koobee Wublee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On Dec 28, 11:07 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Dec 28, 2:49 pm, wrote:


THE MOTION OF THE PERIHELION OF MERCURY
In his general relativity calculation of the motion of the perihelion
of Mercury Albert Einstein had only taken into account the
gravitational actions between the Sun and the Mercury, which he also
assumed as two points.


In an actual observation of Mercury’s orbital advance, there are
5,600” (in arc-seconds) per century of observed perihelion advance.
Among these, 5,025” are due to the 22,000-year precession of earth’s
orbital around the second. 532” were accounted for through inclusion
of other planets. That leaves (5,600” – 5,025” – 532” = 43”)
unaccounted
for.

I suspect this 5,600” per century of perihelion advance is not very
accurate in the first place. I want to see error bars associated with
this experiment. Tell me if that is too much to ask.

What will be, according to the theory of general relativity, the value
of the motion of the perihelion of Mercury if the gravitational
actions of all the planets in the solar system are taken into account
and also it is taken into account that the Sun is a little oblate?


The 43” was calculated based on Paul Gerber’s work. Other
mathematical methods do not yield the same result. shrug

Have any done these calculations?


There are at least 12 such calculations to predict Mercury’s orbital
advance in which the spacetime with the Schwarzschild metric is just
one of them according to Gerber’s method. shrug


Since the Schwarzschild metric is merely one of the infinite number of
solutions to the Einstein field equations that are static, spherically
symmetric, and asymptotically flat, other solutions do not predict the
same 43”.

Professor Roberts, the experimental physicist, has emphasized so much
to demand an error bar to each observation, and yet he remains silent
on Le Verrier’s observation of these 5,600”. Not to mention these
5,025” and 532”. I would have to conclude it is a case of his own
personal bias towards the faith in the nonsense called the general
theory of relativity. shrug
  #17  
Old December 30th 08, 06:32 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Eric Gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,465
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On Dec 29, 7:57*pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Dec 29, 12:30 am, Eric Gisse wrote:

On Dec 28, 10:07 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:
I suspect this 5,600” per century of perihelion advance is not very
accurate in the first place. *I want to see error bars associated with
this experiment. *Tell me if that is too much to ask.


Is reading the literature too much to ask?


What literature?


Is there a reason you are unable to perform a basic literature search?


The 43” was calculated based on Paul Gerber’s work. *Other
mathematical methods do not yield the same result. *shrug


No, it was not "based on Paul Gerber's work".


Gerber pioneered that particular way of deriving differential
equations. *Try reading the literature for a change. *shrug


Since the actual analysis is based on classical perturbation theory
and not Gerber's work, I'm going to go with "you are full of ****".

http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath527/kmath527.htm

Go read.

[snip rest]
  #18  
Old December 30th 08, 06:36 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Eric Gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,465
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On Dec 29, 7:58*pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:

[...]


There are at least 12 such calculations to predict Mercury’s orbital
advance in which the spacetime with the Schwarzschild metric is just
one of them according to Gerber’s method. *shrug


Since the Schwarzschild metric is merely one of the infinite number of
solutions to the Einstein field equations that are static, spherically
symmetric, and asymptotically flat, other solutions do not predict the
same 43”.


Name one that is not related to Schwarzschild through a coordinate
transformation.

Remember that you've failed this abundantly simple challenge every
time previous, so I doubt this time will be different.

[snip]
  #19  
Old December 30th 08, 07:41 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Koobee Wublee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On Dec 29, 9:36 pm, Eric Gisse wrote:
On Dec 29, 7:58 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:


Since the Schwarzschild metric is merely one of the infinite number of
solutions to the Einstein field equations that are static, spherically
symmetric, and asymptotically flat, other solutions do not predict the
same 43”.


Name one that is not related to Schwarzschild through a coordinate
transformation.


Short memory? You have been told that the following and the
Schwarzschild metric are ones among an infinite solutions to the
Einstein field equations that are static, spherically symmetric, and
asymptotically flat.

ds^2 = c^2 T dt^2 / (1 + 2 K / r) – (1 + 2 K / r) dr^2 – (r + K)^2
dO^2

Where

** K, T = Constants
** dO^2 = cos^2(Latitude) dLongitude^2 + dLatitude^2

Again, notice this solution does not manifest black holes. shrug

With inability to learn, that explains why you remain a multi-year
super-senior today? Apparently, that free money the state of Alaska
provides must go a long way for you.

[snip perennial whining crap as usual]



  #20  
Old December 30th 08, 07:44 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.astro
Koobee Wublee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default The Motion of the Perihelion of Mercury

On Dec 29, 9:32 pm, Eric Gisse wrote:
On Dec 29, 7:57 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:


On Dec 28, 10:07 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:
I suspect this 5,600” per century of perihelion advance is not very
accurate in the first place. I want to see error bars associated with
this experiment. Tell me if that is too much to ask.


Is reading the literature too much to ask?


What literature?


Is there a reason you are unable to perform a basic literature search?


Is there a reason why you cannot even comprehend the literature you
have dug up with? You remind me of Bill Hubba. That explains why you
remain a multi-year super-senior today. shrug

Gerber pioneered that particular way of deriving differential
equations. Try reading the literature for a change. shrug


Since the actual analysis is based on classical perturbation theory
and not Gerber's work, I'm going to go with "you are full of ****".

http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath527/kmath527.htm


Equations 6 to 7 are what Gerber did. Learn to understand the
literature. shrug

[snip the rest of whining crap]

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Perihelion Advance of Mercury. [email protected] Astronomy Misc 25 November 18th 08 12:12 PM
The Advance of the Perihelion of Mercury Double-A[_2_] Misc 8 June 18th 08 04:00 PM
Perihelion of Mercury question Sorcerer Astronomy Misc 13 January 6th 07 10:24 PM
Perihelion of Mercury question Sorcerer Astronomy Misc 114 January 2nd 07 12:36 AM
Perihelion of Mercury with classical mechanics ? [email protected] Astronomy Misc 34 April 28th 05 06:57 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.