A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Astronomy Misc
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Three body demomstrations.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 5th 09, 12:08 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Dr. Henri Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 707
Default Three body demomstrations.

Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.

Fascinating viewing at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe


Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)

www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm.

......
  #2  
Old January 5th 09, 08:27 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Dr. Henri Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 707
Default Three body demomstrations.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:03:47 GMT, Sam Wormley wrote:

Dr. Henri Wilson wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.


Henri--You will undoubtedly be interested in this paper.

Resonance, Chaos and Stability in the General Three-Body Problem
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007IAUS..246..199M


I would be if I could get it. I have to subscribe to the journal.

....but I've seen enough. No system that has three similar bodies is stable.
Even with mass ratios of 100:1 it will crash eventually.

It is certainly impossible to analyse three body systems mathematically with
any long term accuracy..



Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)

www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm.

......
  #3  
Old January 5th 09, 08:55 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Jerry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 502
Default Three body demomstrations.

On Jan 4, 5:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.

Fascinating viewing at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe


It's about time that you realized that.

Next you need to explore what starting configurations for the
unrestricted three body problem, although long-term chaotic,
are metastable in the sense that they will not crash, eject
one member, or completely dissociate.

I'll give you a hint so that you don't waste too much time
reproducing a lot of well-known research:
There is no capture scenario that can ever work. A third body
entering a two-body system ALWAYS results in ejection, crash,
or dissociation.

A trivial argument explains why this must be so. In the absence
of non-conservative forces (i.e. friction), these systems are
reversible. If a third body joins two other bodies from outside
the original system, it can ultimately leave.

Jerry
  #4  
Old January 5th 09, 08:56 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Benj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default Three body demomstrations.

On Jan 5, 2:27 am, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:

...but I've seen enough. No system that has three similar bodies is stable.
Even with mass ratios of 100:1 it will crash eventually.

It is certainly impossible to analyse three body systems mathematically with
any long term accuracy..

Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)


Exactly. Now let us all pause for a minute and ponder the impact of
the above statement in relation to the widespread fallacy that the
solar system has been "explained" by Kepler, Galileo, Newton etc. Um,
just HOW many bodies are there in the solar system? Calculate the
motion of a stable solar system? Surely you jest! Just more dogma and
lies from establishment physics and establishment media!

The closer you look, the less you know!



  #5  
Old January 5th 09, 09:44 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Dr. Henri Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 707
Default Three body demomstrations.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:55:15 -0800 (PST), Jerry
wrote:

On Jan 4, 5:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.

Fascinating viewing at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe


It's about time that you realized that.

Next you need to explore what starting configurations for the
unrestricted three body problem, although long-term chaotic,
are metastable in the sense that they will not crash, eject
one member, or completely dissociate.

I'll give you a hint so that you don't waste too much time
reproducing a lot of well-known research:
There is no capture scenario that can ever work. A third body
entering a two-body system ALWAYS results in ejection, crash,
or dissociation.


I wouldn't be too sure of that. Certainly many configurations I gave tried end
up that way but there are so many possibilities that I don't think you should
rule it out altogether. The capture itself is hard enough and requires
stringent conditions.

A trivial argument explains why this must be so. In the absence
of non-conservative forces (i.e. friction), these systems are
reversible. If a third body joins two other bodies from outside
the original system, it can ultimately leave.


You can play with my program for hours. It's fasinating to watch....definitely
chaotic.
Capturing is set up in 3D but you can make it 2D by setting the z velocity and
plane components at zero.

Jerry




Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)

www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm.

......
  #6  
Old January 5th 09, 10:05 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Eric Gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,465
Default Three body demomstrations.



Dr. Henri Wilson wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.

Fascinating viewing at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe


Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)

www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm.

.....


So Ralph, what iterative method did you use for solving the
differential equations?

Why are you using visual basic (I assume, I'm not opening it) when VB
has poor floating point capabilities?
  #7  
Old January 5th 09, 11:17 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Jerry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 502
Default Three body demomstrations.

On Jan 5, 2:44*am, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:55:15 -0800 (PST), Jerry
wrote:





On Jan 4, 5:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.


Fascinating viewing at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe


It's about time that you realized that.


Next you need to explore what starting configurations for the
unrestricted three body problem, although long-term chaotic,
are metastable in the sense that they will not crash, eject
one member, or completely dissociate.


I'll give you a hint so that you don't waste too much time
reproducing a lot of well-known research:
There is no capture scenario that can ever work. A third body
entering a two-body system ALWAYS results in ejection, crash,
or dissociation.


I wouldn't be too sure of that. Certainly many configurations I gave tried end
up that way but there are so many possibilities that I don't think you should
rule it out altogether. The capture itself is hard enough and requires
stringent conditions.


Think carefully about what it means for the system to be
reversible.

Simplify the problem to a two-body problem, if you are not
convinced. In the absence of friction, can two bodies that
are not -already- gravitationally bound interact to form
a stable orbit?

A third body cannot be introduced "from infinity" into an
existing two body system to make a metastable three-body
system, because it is capable of returning "to infinity".

To be captured, it must be introduced from a finite distance
with a low enough kinetic energy such that it had ALWAYS
been a part of the system, i.e. the system must -never- have
been a two body system, but must have always been a three
body system.

A trivial argument explains why this must be so. In the absence
of non-conservative forces (i.e. friction), these systems are
reversible. If a third body joins two other bodies from outside
the original system, it can ultimately leave.


You can play with my program for hours. It's fasinating to watch....definitely
chaotic.
Capturing is set up in 3D but you can make it 2D by setting the z velocity and
plane components at zero.


Jerry
  #8  
Old January 5th 09, 03:28 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Three body demomstrations.

On 5 jan, 10:05, Eric Gisse wrote:
Dr. Henri Wilson wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.


Fascinating viewing at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe


Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)


www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm.


.....


So Ralph, what iterative method did you use for solving the
differential equations?

Why are you using visual basic (I assume, I'm not opening it) when VB
has poor floating point capabilities


You are right. With basic or any other language, the errors
add up, and the system will ultimately crash.

Marcel Luttgens

  #9  
Old January 5th 09, 03:46 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Strich.9
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Three body demomstrations.

On Jan 4, 6:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.

Fascinating viewing at:http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe

Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)

www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm.

.....


I am assuming by Newtonian the speed of g interaction is
instantaneous. The errors will probably be larger with non-
instantaneous g such as g=c...
  #10  
Old January 5th 09, 03:55 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Three body demomstrations.

On Jan 5, 7:46*am, "Strich.9" wrote:
On Jan 4, 6:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:

Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D
configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed
up the movements.
When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly
chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the
motions are very unstable in the long term.


Fascinating viewing at:http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe


Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)


www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm.


.....


I am assuming by Newtonian the speed of g interaction is
instantaneous. *The errors will probably be larger with non-
instantaneous g such as g=c...


....but I've seen enough. No system that has three similar bodies is
stable.
Even with mass ratios of 100:1 it will crash eventually

not if the aeither expansion in wich they reside is expanding faster
than the gravitational binding force
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Becoming the Universal God Body [email protected] Amateur Astronomy 1 May 15th 07 02:21 PM
3-body L4/L5 stability [email protected] Astronomy Misc 8 September 24th 06 05:40 PM
3-body L4/L5 stability [email protected] Astronomy Misc 0 September 14th 06 04:54 PM
Three-Body Problem G=EMC^2 Glazier Misc 3 August 20th 06 10:24 PM
N by M Body Fusion Charles Cagle Astronomy Misc 0 August 31st 03 11:30 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.