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Three body demomstrations.
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three
bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm. ...... |
#2
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Three body demomstrations.
On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:03:47 GMT, Sam Wormley wrote:
Dr. Henri Wilson wrote: Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Henri--You will undoubtedly be interested in this paper. Resonance, Chaos and Stability in the General Three-Body Problem http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007IAUS..246..199M I would be if I could get it. I have to subscribe to the journal. ....but I've seen enough. No system that has three similar bodies is stable. Even with mass ratios of 100:1 it will crash eventually. It is certainly impossible to analyse three body systems mathematically with any long term accuracy.. Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm. ...... |
#3
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Three body demomstrations.
On Jan 4, 5:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe It's about time that you realized that. Next you need to explore what starting configurations for the unrestricted three body problem, although long-term chaotic, are metastable in the sense that they will not crash, eject one member, or completely dissociate. I'll give you a hint so that you don't waste too much time reproducing a lot of well-known research: There is no capture scenario that can ever work. A third body entering a two-body system ALWAYS results in ejection, crash, or dissociation. A trivial argument explains why this must be so. In the absence of non-conservative forces (i.e. friction), these systems are reversible. If a third body joins two other bodies from outside the original system, it can ultimately leave. Jerry |
#4
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Three body demomstrations.
On Jan 5, 2:27 am, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
...but I've seen enough. No system that has three similar bodies is stable. Even with mass ratios of 100:1 it will crash eventually. It is certainly impossible to analyse three body systems mathematically with any long term accuracy.. Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) Exactly. Now let us all pause for a minute and ponder the impact of the above statement in relation to the widespread fallacy that the solar system has been "explained" by Kepler, Galileo, Newton etc. Um, just HOW many bodies are there in the solar system? Calculate the motion of a stable solar system? Surely you jest! Just more dogma and lies from establishment physics and establishment media! The closer you look, the less you know! |
#5
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Three body demomstrations.
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:55:15 -0800 (PST), Jerry
wrote: On Jan 4, 5:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote: Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe It's about time that you realized that. Next you need to explore what starting configurations for the unrestricted three body problem, although long-term chaotic, are metastable in the sense that they will not crash, eject one member, or completely dissociate. I'll give you a hint so that you don't waste too much time reproducing a lot of well-known research: There is no capture scenario that can ever work. A third body entering a two-body system ALWAYS results in ejection, crash, or dissociation. I wouldn't be too sure of that. Certainly many configurations I gave tried end up that way but there are so many possibilities that I don't think you should rule it out altogether. The capture itself is hard enough and requires stringent conditions. A trivial argument explains why this must be so. In the absence of non-conservative forces (i.e. friction), these systems are reversible. If a third body joins two other bodies from outside the original system, it can ultimately leave. You can play with my program for hours. It's fasinating to watch....definitely chaotic. Capturing is set up in 3D but you can make it 2D by setting the z velocity and plane components at zero. Jerry Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm. ...... |
#6
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Three body demomstrations.
Dr. Henri Wilson wrote: Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm. ..... So Ralph, what iterative method did you use for solving the differential equations? Why are you using visual basic (I assume, I'm not opening it) when VB has poor floating point capabilities? |
#7
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Three body demomstrations.
On Jan 5, 2:44*am, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:55:15 -0800 (PST), Jerry wrote: On Jan 4, 5:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote: Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe It's about time that you realized that. Next you need to explore what starting configurations for the unrestricted three body problem, although long-term chaotic, are metastable in the sense that they will not crash, eject one member, or completely dissociate. I'll give you a hint so that you don't waste too much time reproducing a lot of well-known research: There is no capture scenario that can ever work. A third body entering a two-body system ALWAYS results in ejection, crash, or dissociation. I wouldn't be too sure of that. Certainly many configurations I gave tried end up that way but there are so many possibilities that I don't think you should rule it out altogether. The capture itself is hard enough and requires stringent conditions. Think carefully about what it means for the system to be reversible. Simplify the problem to a two-body problem, if you are not convinced. In the absence of friction, can two bodies that are not -already- gravitationally bound interact to form a stable orbit? A third body cannot be introduced "from infinity" into an existing two body system to make a metastable three-body system, because it is capable of returning "to infinity". To be captured, it must be introduced from a finite distance with a low enough kinetic energy such that it had ALWAYS been a part of the system, i.e. the system must -never- have been a two body system, but must have always been a three body system. A trivial argument explains why this must be so. In the absence of non-conservative forces (i.e. friction), these systems are reversible. If a third body joins two other bodies from outside the original system, it can ultimately leave. You can play with my program for hours. It's fasinating to watch....definitely chaotic. Capturing is set up in 3D but you can make it 2D by setting the z velocity and plane components at zero. Jerry |
#8
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Three body demomstrations.
On 5 jan, 10:05, Eric Gisse wrote:
Dr. Henri Wilson wrote: Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm. ..... So Ralph, what iterative method did you use for solving the differential equations? Why are you using visual basic (I assume, I'm not opening it) when VB has poor floating point capabilities You are right. With basic or any other language, the errors add up, and the system will ultimately crash. Marcel Luttgens |
#9
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Three body demomstrations.
On Jan 4, 6:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at:http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm. ..... I am assuming by Newtonian the speed of g interaction is instantaneous. The errors will probably be larger with non- instantaneous g such as g=c... |
#10
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Three body demomstrations.
On Jan 5, 7:46*am, "Strich.9" wrote:
On Jan 4, 6:08*pm, hw@..(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote: Readers might be interested in my latest program upgrade that shows how three bodies might interact according to Newtonian theory. Both 2D and 3D configurations are shown. The value of G has been grossly exaggerated to speed up the movements. When the masses of the objects are fairly similar, the motions are clearly chaotic and usually result in a crash. Even with mass ratios of 1:1000, the motions are very unstable in the long term. Fascinating viewing at:http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/threebody.exe Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm. ..... I am assuming by Newtonian the speed of g interaction is instantaneous. *The errors will probably be larger with non- instantaneous g such as g=c... ....but I've seen enough. No system that has three similar bodies is stable. Even with mass ratios of 100:1 it will crash eventually not if the aeither expansion in wich they reside is expanding faster than the gravitational binding force |
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