Two-time Apollo commands-who could've gotten one?

One of the reasons Wally Schirra left NASA when he did was that Apollo 7 was likely to be
his first and last Apollo mission. ISTR reading about Pete Conrad after Apollo 12 trying to get
Apollo 20 before it was axed, and if he couldn't get it, he was fighting for Al Bean to command
20. Had Wally stayed in NASA, would he have been considered for a later Apollo? And had
18-20 been funded and flown, would Pete have gotten his way in either him taking 20, or
failing that, Al Bean taking 20? I realize this is all hypothetical, but what-ifs are always fun
to think about.

In article ,
Matt Wiser wrote:
...Had Wally stayed in NASA, would he have been considered for a later
Apollo?

Hard to say. As witness Cooper, just being there didn't necessarily get
you a flight slot, if Deke had decided that you weren't really up to it
any more. If memory serves -- references aren't handy -- Deke hinted that
Schirra's decision to retire might have saved some embarrassment later.

And had 18-20 been funded and flown, would Pete have gotten his
way in either him taking 20, or failing that, Al Bean taking 20?

Depends very much on just how that happened. If the whole program had
looked more solid from the start, other people with more seniority and a
stronger claim to that slot might have stuck around. For example, if it
had been definite in the summer of 1969 that Apollo 17 *was* going to fly,
quite likely it would have been commanded by Michael Collins, with Gene
Cernan relegated to a later slot. (Conrad was well up there in seniority,
but to be a two-time Moonwalker I think he'd have had to go to the back
of the line. Bean even more so.) And Collins wasn't the only one who'd
have been more willing to keep on with the grind if future flights hadn't
looked so iffy.
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would Pete have gotten his way in either him taking 20, or
failing that, Al Bean taking 20?

I dont't think Pete or Al would have been assigned to command any of those
18-20, simply because they had allready been on the surface of the moon.
Several astros flew on more than one apollo mission, but no-one ever landed
twice on the moon.

I guess it would be possible to command more than one Apollo, but that given
that it would implicate only one moonlanding for the commander.
So in case of NASA rules laying out that any astro would have only one trip
to lunarsurface, they would have to return to Gemini-standards, resulting in
both pilots entering the LEM and landing on the moon, with the commander
left inside the command module?

What about Jim Lovell, flew on 8, commanded 13, first landing on 20?




I realize this is all hypothetical, but what-ifs are always fun
to think about.

Yes, sir!

Regards, Erik

In article ,
erik gunnes wrote:
I dont't think Pete or Al would have been assigned to command any of those
18-20, simply because they had allready been on the surface of the moon.
Several astros flew on more than one apollo mission, but no-one ever landed
twice on the moon.

Yes, but the question is how much of that was policy, and how much was
happenstance. Certainly there was reluctance to fly some people twice
while others were still waiting for their first flight, but it wasn't
overwhelming -- three guys went to the Moon (although not its surface)
twice, and more would have if the program had continued. There was no
command from on high forbidding the same guy landing twice, and there
weren't a lot of experienced astronauts left toward the end. (Cernan was
not originally a strong candidate to command a landing.)

So in case of NASA rules laying out that any astro would have only one trip
to lunarsurface, they would have to return to Gemini-standards, resulting in
both pilots entering the LEM and landing on the moon, with the commander
left inside the command module?

Seems most unlikely. The division of responsibility among the crew --
with the commander being the landing pilot in particular (the "Lunar
Module Pilot" was in fact the LM flight engineer) -- was far more strongly
established than any "one landing only" rule. A commander who wasn't
considered eligible to land, for whatever reason, wouldn't have flown.

What about Jim Lovell, flew on 8, commanded 13, first landing on 20?

No, if Lovell had been interested in flying again, it would have been
sooner than that. There was no need to route him through another backup
slot, since he was already fully trained. Most likely he'd have been
assigned to command 16, that being the first then-unassigned flight (and
also a good fit with the traditional "sit out two" rotation rule).

The major alternative would have been to do 14 as a reflight of 13... not
a totally unreasonable idea (although most likely the CMP would have been
Mattingly rather than Swigert!), but it would have meant bumping Shepard's
crew to 15. In fact, that would have been the second time Lovell bumped
Shepard, since originally Lovell was going to fly 14 and Shepard 13. I
can't see that happening, given Shepard's privileged position in the
internal politics -- the first bumping only happened because upper
management balked at letting Shepard jump the *entire* queue.
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On May 10, 11:26 pm, "Matt Wiser" wrote:
One of the reasons Wally Schirra left NASA when he did was that Apollo 7 was likely to be
his first and last Apollo mission. ISTR reading about Pete Conrad after Apollo 12 trying to get
Apollo 20 before it was axed, and if he couldn't get it, he was fighting for Al Bean to command
20. Had Wally stayed in NASA, would he have been considered for a later Apollo? And had
18-20 been funded and flown, would Pete have gotten his way in either him taking 20, or
failing that, Al Bean taking 20? I realize this is all hypothetical, but what-ifs are always fun
to think about.

Schirra had apparently been making rumblings about retirement since
1966...hence his assignment to the rather dull Apollo 205. The fire
changed everything of course and he landed Apollo 7. I don't think
Slayton felt Schirra wanted to keep up the grind of the astronaut
business.

-A.L.

Skylon wrote:

Schirra had apparently been making rumblings about retirement since
1966...hence his assignment to the rather dull Apollo 205. The fire
changed everything of course and he landed Apollo 7. I don't think
Slayton felt Schirra wanted to keep up the grind of the astronaut
business.

According to his autobiography, he felt that one needs to find one's
mark in one's career before one passes one's mid-forties. He didn't see
his role ar NASA as more than a temporary assignment.

--
Dave Michelson

On 11 May, 11:28, "erik gunnes" wrote:
So in case of NASA rules laying out that any astro would have only one trip
to lunarsurface, they would have to return to Gemini-standards, resulting in
both pilots entering the LEM and landing on the moon, with the commander
left inside the command module?

I doubt there would have been many Moon walkers taking NASA up on
this. To you or me, the idea of getting a (additional) flight to the
Moon, even if it does not include a landing, seems very attractive.
To an astronaut who knew only too well how hard the training was for
an Apollo mission, it probably would not have seemed worthwhile. Bill
Anders expressed precisely this feeling in a book about Apollo 8
published in the late 90s (title and author escape me,
unfortunately). Having been LMP on the LM-less Apollo 8, he would
have been "promoted" to CMP for another flight. He left the program,
because it wasn't worth going through all of that training just to
orbit the Moon again.

Simple answer: Armstrong!
Because Slayton said he'd give the 11 crew the next flight, no questions
asked, if they had to abort at any stage.

"Martin Dunne" wrote in message
...
Simple answer: Armstrong!

Except by then Armstrong was already moving on.


Because Slayton said he'd give the 11 crew the next flight, no questions
asked, if they had to abort at any stage.




--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available!
Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html

In article ,
Martin Dunne wrote:
Simple answer: Armstrong!
Because Slayton said he'd give the 11 crew the next flight, no questions
asked, if they had to abort at any stage.

No, that was Paine, not Slayton. Reportedly it surprised a number of
people when he made that promise, and not everybody was sure how seriously
to take it.
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