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Why Tolerate this Newsgroup?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 26th 05, 12:19 AM
Mij Adyaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why Tolerate this Newsgroup?

I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group. There are some very
knowledgeable members of this group and I have learned much from being a
member of this group. Year after year the problems in this newsgroup worsen.
That is just the nature of Usenet and it will only get worse with time.
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and real
email addresses? It seems that this solution would eliminate all of the
trolls and other annoyances and we could have astronomy discussions without
all of the flame wars. It seems that if a new home could be found, the group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Regards,

-mij





  #2  
Old April 26th 05, 12:24 AM
Bert Hyman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In news:eWebe.82300$A31.9856@fed1read03 "Mij Adyaw"
wrote:

It seems that if a new home could be found, the group
could be vacated rather quickly.


Why let them run you off?

Get a newsreader with an effective kill file or scoring mechanism and
learn to use it.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN
  #3  
Old April 26th 05, 12:29 AM
Florian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good =

folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or =

some=20
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and =

real=20
email addresses?



I really don't care for reading web-based forums. Also part of the fun =
of usenet=20
is _because_ anyone can post. The signal to noise ratio varies but it's =
usually
pretty easy to spot the trolls and jerks.

-Florian


  #4  
Old April 26th 05, 12:32 AM
Martin R. Howell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:19:38 -0700, Mij Adyaw wrote:

I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group.




My name is posted as is my email address and the same can be said for a
significant number of regular posters here. This place is not perfect, but
it is a comfortable to me. Nothing ties me or anyone else to this group.
We are all free to come and go. . .and few question out loud the validity
of the gathering. My conviction and dedication to its existence, and that
of many others, is reinforced everytime it is summoned on our computers.



--
Martin R. Howell
"Photographs From the Universe of Amateur Astronomy"
http://members.isp.com/universeofama...nomy%40isp.com
  #5  
Old April 26th 05, 12:33 AM
Jan Owen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I like the real names and real e-mail address part, and have said so over
time. It SHOULD be a requirement, with NO exceptions. If you're not real
and directly accountable and traceable, you are banned.

But I DO like SAA where it is. I just wish more folks would exercise
common sense in dealing with the trolls and ego trippers.

Ignore them, or killfile them, but DON'T respond to them, because EVERY
time you do, YOU are encouraging them to do more of the same.

I've certainly been guilty of this myself.

But what I find interesting, is when you point out that someone is a troll
that should be avoided, there are ALWAYS folks who will defend them on
SOME pretext (Oh, he owns a telescope AND an observatory, so even though
he is a total jerk, and off topic, or on an anti American/anti
Democrat/anti Republican/anti anything you can think of rant, I still find
him intellectually stimulating, so even though he almost NEVER abides by
the SAA charter, I still think we should make an exception in his/her/it's
case). And as long as this goes on, there will never be any real control
exercised over these folks, and SAA will continue to be a garbage dump...

--
Jan Owen

To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.662
Longitude: -112.3272

"Mij Adyaw" wrote in message
news:eWebe.82300$A31.9856@fed1read03...
I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this

newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group. There are some very
knowledgeable members of this group and I have learned much from being a
member of this group. Year after year the problems in this newsgroup

worsen.
That is just the nature of Usenet and it will only get worse with time.
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or

some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and

real
email addresses? It seems that this solution would eliminate all of the
trolls and other annoyances and we could have astronomy discussions

without
all of the flame wars. It seems that if a new home could be found, the

group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Regards,

-mij







  #6  
Old April 26th 05, 12:44 AM
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:19:38 -0700, "Mij Adyaw"
wrote:

I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this newsgroup.


Because it is full of interesting people, interesting posts, and useful
information. The percentage of trolls and off-topic _threads_ is small,
so why worry about them?

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #7  
Old April 26th 05, 12:56 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Because, along with the inane, there are nuggets of geniune, worthy
advice. No one is being forced to stay. I, myself, use my real name
and e-mail.

Francis

Mij Adyaw wrote:
I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this

newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their


jollies by antagonizing other members of the group. There are some

very
knowledgeable members of this group and I have learned much from

being a
member of this group. Year after year the problems in this newsgroup

worsen.
That is just the nature of Usenet and it will only get worse with

time.
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the

good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart

or some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names

and real
email addresses? It seems that this solution would eliminate all of

the
trolls and other annoyances and we could have astronomy discussions

without
all of the flame wars. It seems that if a new home could be found,

the group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Regards,

-mij


  #8  
Old April 26th 05, 01:08 AM
Mij Adyaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the detailed reply. If the folks in this newsgroup could just
stick to the topic of amateur astronomy, this newsgroup would be a great
place. I advocate posting using a real email address, however I personally
would never use a real email address because of all of the software bots
that crawl Usenet collecting email addressed to sell to spammers. Many years
ago, I posted to this newsgroup using a real email address and within
several months my email address was ruined with spam. I was receiving over
100 spam emails per day. I guess that it would be possible for me to use the
yahoo email "ddress guard" feature in order to generate special temporary
email addresses that I can delete at anytime if they become spam buckets. I
am aware of the trick of adding extra characters to the end of my email
address, however some of the software bots that crawl usenet sell different
variants of your email address and therefore your email address is not
really safe.

You are correct that folks seem to defend the trolls and that is exactly
what perpetuates the problem. For example, there always been an ongoing
flame war between the liberals and the conservatives that gets rekindled
several times a month. The problem is that regular contributing members of
this group get involved in these off-topic discussions and sometimes
perpetuate them until they become flame-wars. In a moderated newsgroup,
off-topic posts will cause them to get banned from the newsgroup by a
moderator and therefore they will not be tempted to reply and perpetuate
off-topic posts. Why do some folks feel that it is necessary to challenge
the political alliance of other members of this group? If everyone could
just stick to the topic of amateur astronomy, this would be an excellent
forum

Regards,

-mij


"Jan Owen" wrote in message
news:R7fbe.31274$lv1.16178@fed1read06...
I like the real names and real e-mail address part, and have said so over
time. It SHOULD be a requirement, with NO exceptions. If you're not real
and directly accountable and traceable, you are banned.

But I DO like SAA where it is. I just wish more folks would exercise
common sense in dealing with the trolls and ego trippers.

Ignore them, or killfile them, but DON'T respond to them, because EVERY
time you do, YOU are encouraging them to do more of the same.

I've certainly been guilty of this myself.

But what I find interesting, is when you point out that someone is a troll
that should be avoided, there are ALWAYS folks who will defend them on
SOME pretext (Oh, he owns a telescope AND an observatory, so even though
he is a total jerk, and off topic, or on an anti American/anti
Democrat/anti Republican/anti anything you can think of rant, I still find
him intellectually stimulating, so even though he almost NEVER abides by
the SAA charter, I still think we should make an exception in his/her/it's
case). And as long as this goes on, there will never be any real control
exercised over these folks, and SAA will continue to be a garbage dump...

--
Jan Owen

To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.662
Longitude: -112.3272

"Mij Adyaw" wrote in message
news:eWebe.82300$A31.9856@fed1read03...
I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this

newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group. There are some very
knowledgeable members of this group and I have learned much from being a
member of this group. Year after year the problems in this newsgroup

worsen.
That is just the nature of Usenet and it will only get worse with time.
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or

some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and

real
email addresses? It seems that this solution would eliminate all of the
trolls and other annoyances and we could have astronomy discussions

without
all of the flame wars. It seems that if a new home could be found, the

group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Regards,

-mij









  #9  
Old April 26th 05, 01:09 AM
Jan Owen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

While that may well be true for thee and me, newbies often have NO clue as
to what's on the up and up, and what's a troll, and may be totally misled
on their single exposure to this medium.

The problem, as I see it, is that NO one wants to be responsible for
anything anymore. They mostly just want to feed their sick egos. They
think they have the right to post anything they want, if it will stroke
their ego by getting responses. But the new folks, who honestly need help
can never tell when they are getting it, or are being taken advantage of
by a troll, or a SEE ME type, hiding behind an alias, and a fake e-mail
address. This lack of accountability is what is destroying SAA. Simple
as that. Well, certainly the dumbing down of America has helped, but the
primary problem is in the former...

--
Jan Owen

To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.662
Longitude: -112.3272

"Florian" wrote in message
...
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or

some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and

real
email addresses?



I really don't care for reading web-based forums. Also part of the fun of
usenet
is _because_ anyone can post. The signal to noise ratio varies but it's
usually
pretty easy to spot the trolls and jerks.

-Florian



  #10  
Old April 26th 05, 01:33 AM
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:08:38 -0700, "Mij Adyaw"
wrote:

I advocate posting using a real email address, however I personally
would never use a real email address because of all of the software bots
that crawl Usenet collecting email addressed to sell to spammers. Many years
ago, I posted to this newsgroup using a real email address and within
several months my email address was ruined with spam. I was receiving over
100 spam emails per day...


I've been posting here since 1997 or so, and every post has contained my
real email address (the same one all that time). I have a few other
addresses I use for things that I think might attract spam. I don't see
any more garbage coming to my main address than to the others. Spam
filters are good enough to strip away the bulk of the junk and leave a
manageable (albeit still somewhat annoying) amount.

These days, there are so many ways of harvesting addresses that it
hardly seems worthwhile to worry about it. If you actually use your
address, it is only a matter of time before it is harvested (perhaps
from something as simple as a clueless friend who sends out some stupid
email joke to everyone in his address book- including you- and doesn't
know what the BCC field is for).

I have many Internet friends I have met through this group. Personally,
I don't choose to make it difficult for future ones by using a fake or
obfuscated address.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
 




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