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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
On another space oriented forum I noted:
"It took 20 years to increase the resolution by a factor or 10 over Viking with the Mars Global Surveyor mission. But only 10 years to increase the resolution over that of MGS by a factor of 10 with Mars Reconnassance Orbiter. Could we increase the resolution over MRO by another factor of 10 to, gulp, 3 cm per pixel in only 5 years this time?" Funny though, that rather off-the-cuff estimate of mine is close to what is possible. To resolve 3 cm in the optical from say a 300 km orbit would require a 6 meter mirror. The James Webb Space Telescope will have a 6.5 meter mirror and is scheduled for launch in 2013. But it was originally scheduled for launch in 2011: James Webb Space Telescope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope So going by this rate, it'll be 3mm/pixel 2.5 years after that, and 300 microns 1.25 years after that, and ... Hmm, in less than a decade then we should be able to resolve microbes from space. Admittedly though, the JWST is a 4 billion dollar mission. Also it uses a beryllium metal mirror for infrared astronomy only. The beryllium makes the mirror lightweight but it is unclear if you can achieve the much more stringent smoothness requirements at optical wavelengths with a metal mirror. As for the data storage and transmission of the large files for such high resolution images, data storage capacity and costs are doubling and halving each year, respectively: Bye-bye hard drive, hello flash. By Michael Kanellos Staff Writer, CNET News.com Published: January 4, 2006, 10:00 AM PST "Currently, NAND chips double in memory density every year. The cutting-edge 4-gigabit chips of 2005, for example, will soon be dethroned by 8-gigabit chips. (Memory chips are measured in gigabits, or Gb, but consumer electronics manufacturers talk about how many gigabytes, or GB, are in their products. Eight gigabits make a gigabyte, so one 8Gb chip is the equivalent of 1GB.) "Another driving factor in the uptake of the technology is cost: NAND drops in price about 35 to 45 percent a year, due in part--again--to Moore's Law and in part to the fact that many companies are bringing on new factories." http://news.com.com/Bye-bye+hard+dri...3-6005849.html MRO uses the type of flash memory chips discussed here. Also, interestingly NASA had planned a laser communication orbiter for Mars for launch in 2010 before it was canceled: Record Set for Space Laser Communication. By Ker Than Staff Writer posted: 05 January 2006 02:11 pm ET http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...aser_comm.html Mars Telecommunications Orbiter: Interplanetary Broadband. By Bill Christensen posted: 05 May 2005 06:41 am ET http://www.space.com/businesstechnol...om_050505.html This would have allowed data transmission rates of a hundred times greater than what is currently available. It was the great cost overruns overruns that led to cancelling of the Mars Telecommunications Orbiter, and great cost overruns also threatened JWST as well. That the costs for computer technology are dropping exponentially with capacity increasing exponentially is no doubt fueled by the free market in this sphere. Conversely, that launch costs are staying static is no doubt because the launches are controlled by large governments. When private companies become the primary financer and purveyor of launches, the launch costs will also drop dramatically. Bob Clark |
#2
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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
Robert Clark wrote:
On another space oriented forum I noted: "It took 20 years to increase the resolution by a factor or 10 over Viking with the Mars Global Surveyor mission. But only 10 years to increase the resolution over that of MGS by a factor of 10 with Mars Reconnassance Orbiter. Could we increase the resolution over MRO by another factor of 10 to, gulp, 3 cm per pixel in only 5 years this time?" Funny though, that rather off-the-cuff estimate of mine is close to what is possible. To resolve 3 cm in the optical from say a 300 km orbit would require a 6 meter mirror. The James Webb Space Telescope will have a 6.5 meter mirror and is scheduled for launch in 2013. But it was originally scheduled for launch in 2011: James Webb Space Telescope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope So going by this rate, it'll be 3mm/pixel 2.5 years after that, and 300 microns 1.25 years after that, and ... Hmm, in less than a decade then we should be able to resolve microbes from space. (snip) I would rather the money be spent of building infrastructure in orbit around Mars (the functional equivalent of cell phone and GPS service, planet wide), and then drop hundreds or thousands of small, self reliant rovers with lots of different specialized sensors to comb the planet, get close enough to actually find those microbes, if they exist, and lots of other observations, and report back through the overhead services. And this time, include on the rovers, flea bots, that clean the lenses and solar cells of dust. |
#3
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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
Robert Clark wrote:
snip So going by this rate, it'll be 3mm/pixel 2.5 years after that, and 300 microns 1.25 years after that, and ... Hmm, in less than a decade then we should be able to resolve microbes from space. So how long until Mars orbiters will be better able to resolve atomic and sub-atomic scale images from orbit better than Earth-bound instruments do it today? ;-) Austin |
#4
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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
AustinMN wrote: Robert Clark wrote: snip So going by this rate, it'll be 3mm/pixel 2.5 years after that, and 300 microns 1.25 years after that, and ... Hmm, in less than a decade then we should be able to resolve microbes from space. So how long until Mars orbiters will be better able to resolve atomic and sub-atomic scale images from orbit better than Earth-bound instruments do it today? ;-) Austin The required smoothness is no problem. I have a Be mirror flat that was polished to about 10 angstrom roughness. |
#5
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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
"John Popelish" wrote in message
. .. Robert Clark wrote: On another space oriented forum I noted: "It took 20 years to increase the resolution by a factor or 10 over Viking with the Mars Global Surveyor mission. But only 10 years to increase the resolution over that of MGS by a factor of 10 with Mars Reconnassance Orbiter. Could we increase the resolution over MRO by another factor of 10 to, gulp, 3 cm per pixel in only 5 years this time?" Funny though, that rather off-the-cuff estimate of mine is close to what is possible. To resolve 3 cm in the optical from say a 300 km orbit would require a 6 meter mirror. The James Webb Space Telescope will have a 6.5 meter mirror and is scheduled for launch in 2013. But it was originally scheduled for launch in 2011: James Webb Space Telescope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope So going by this rate, it'll be 3mm/pixel 2.5 years after that, and 300 microns 1.25 years after that, and ... Hmm, in less than a decade then we should be able to resolve microbes from space. (snip) I would rather the money be spent of building infrastructure in orbit around Mars (the functional equivalent of cell phone and GPS service, planet wide), and then drop hundreds or thousands of small, self reliant rovers with lots of different specialized sensors to comb the planet, get close enough to actually find those microbes, if they exist, and lots of other observations, and report back through the overhead services. And this time, include on the rovers, flea bots, that clean the lenses and solar cells of dust. OK, you had me until the flea bots. |
#6
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James Webb Space Telescope
Robert Clark wrote:
On another space oriented forum I noted: "It took 20 years to increase the resolution by a factor or 10 over Viking with the Mars Global Surveyor mission. But only 10 years to increase the resolution over that of MGS by a factor of 10 with Mars Reconnassance Orbiter. Could we increase the resolution over MRO by another factor of 10 to, gulp, 3 cm per pixel in only 5 years this time?" Funny though, that rather off-the-cuff estimate of mine is close to what is possible. To resolve 3 cm in the optical from say a 300 km orbit would require a 6 meter mirror. The James Webb Space Telescope will have a 6.5 meter mirror and is scheduled for launch in 2013. But it was originally scheduled for launch in 2011: James Webb Space Telescope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope Wow, from this it looks like it's going to be orbitting at the L2 Lagrangian Point, which would mean that it is stationary with respect to the Earth and the Sun, and it will be behind the Earth on the night side of the planet at all times, 1.5 million km's out. If it's behind the Earth, wouldn't it automatically be shielded from the Sun's rays? Or is the Earth's shadow not big enough out there? Yousuf Khan |
#7
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James Webb Space Telescope
Yousuf Khan wrote:
Robert Clark wrote: On another space oriented forum I noted: "It took 20 years to increase the resolution by a factor or 10 over Viking with the Mars Global Surveyor mission. But only 10 years to increase the resolution over that of MGS by a factor of 10 with Mars Reconnassance Orbiter. Could we increase the resolution over MRO by another factor of 10 to, gulp, 3 cm per pixel in only 5 years this time?" Funny though, that rather off-the-cuff estimate of mine is close to what is possible. To resolve 3 cm in the optical from say a 300 km orbit would require a 6 meter mirror. The James Webb Space Telescope will have a 6.5 meter mirror and is scheduled for launch in 2013. But it was originally scheduled for launch in 2011: James Webb Space Telescope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope Wow, from this it looks like it's going to be orbitting at the L2 Lagrangian Point, which would mean that it is stationary with respect to the Earth and the Sun, and it will be behind the Earth on the night side of the planet at all times, 1.5 million km's out. If it's behind the Earth, wouldn't it automatically be shielded from the Sun's rays? I can't answer your question, but from my understanding, being cold (i.e. shielded from the sun) is a good thing when studying infrared. Is it nuclear powered? Austin |
#8
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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
El Guapo wrote:
"John Popelish" wrote in message . .. Robert Clark wrote: On another space oriented forum I noted: "It took 20 years to increase the resolution by a factor or 10 over Viking with the Mars Global Surveyor mission. But only 10 years to increase the resolution over that of MGS by a factor of 10 with Mars Reconnassance Orbiter. Could we increase the resolution over MRO by another factor of 10 to, gulp, 3 cm per pixel in only 5 years this time?" Funny though, that rather off-the-cuff estimate of mine is close to what is possible. To resolve 3 cm in the optical from say a 300 km orbit would require a 6 meter mirror. The James Webb Space Telescope will have a 6.5 meter mirror and is scheduled for launch in 2013. But it was originally scheduled for launch in 2011: James Webb Space Telescope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope So going by this rate, it'll be 3mm/pixel 2.5 years after that, and 300 microns 1.25 years after that, and ... Hmm, in less than a decade then we should be able to resolve microbes from space. (snip) I would rather the money be spent of building infrastructure in orbit around Mars (the functional equivalent of cell phone and GPS service, planet wide), and then drop hundreds or thousands of small, self reliant rovers with lots of different specialized sensors to comb the planet, get close enough to actually find those microbes, if they exist, and lots of other observations, and report back through the overhead services. And this time, include on the rovers, flea bots, that clean the lenses and solar cells of dust. OK, you had me until the flea bots. Do you think they are a worse idea than sitting and waiting for a tornado to pass directly over the panel to suck the dust off, like Spirit and Opportunity do? Why not make a little version of one of these to keep the solar panels spotless? http://www.vcdiscounter.com/01robotic.html |
#9
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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
Robert Clark wrote: On another space oriented forum I noted: "It took 20 years to increase the resolution by a factor or 10 over Viking with the Mars Global Surveyor mission. But only 10 years to increase the resolution over that of MGS by a factor of 10 with Mars Reconnassance Orbiter. Could we increase the resolution over MRO by another factor of 10 to, gulp, 3 cm per pixel in only 5 years this time?" Funny though, that rather off-the-cuff estimate of mine is close to what is possible. To resolve 3 cm in the optical from say a 300 km orbit would require a 6 meter mirror. The James Webb Space Telescope will have a 6.5 meter mirror and is scheduled for launch in 2013. But it was originally scheduled for launch in 2011: James Webb Space Telescope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope So going by this rate, it'll be 3mm/pixel 2.5 years after that, and 300 microns 1.25 years after that, and ... Hmm, in less than a decade then we should be able to resolve microbes from space. Admittedly though, the JWST is a 4 billion dollar mission. Also it uses a beryllium metal mirror for infrared astronomy only. The beryllium makes the mirror lightweight but it is unclear if you can achieve the much more stringent smoothness requirements at optical wavelengths with a metal mirror. As for the data storage and transmission of the large files for such high resolution images, data storage capacity and costs are doubling and halving each year, respectively: Bye-bye hard drive, hello flash. By Michael Kanellos Staff Writer, CNET News.com Published: January 4, 2006, 10:00 AM PST "Currently, NAND chips double in memory density every year. The cutting-edge 4-gigabit chips of 2005, for example, will soon be dethroned by 8-gigabit chips. (Memory chips are measured in gigabits, or Gb, but consumer electronics manufacturers talk about how many gigabytes, or GB, are in their products. Eight gigabits make a gigabyte, so one 8Gb chip is the equivalent of 1GB.) "Another driving factor in the uptake of the technology is cost: NAND drops in price about 35 to 45 percent a year, due in part--again--to Moore's Law and in part to the fact that many companies are bringing on new factories." http://news.com.com/Bye-bye+hard+dri...3-6005849.html MRO uses the type of flash memory chips discussed here. I had a 1 GB computer with 600 Gb of memory in my hand yesterday. It weighs about 5 pounds. It is the size of a modem. It is our new video producer. Cost us $200. Sells for $750. Ka-ching! John |
#10
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We will soon be able to resolve Mars microbes from orbit. ;-)
John Popelish a écrit :
Do you think they are a worse idea than sitting and waiting for a tornado to pass directly over the panel to suck the dust off, like Spirit and Opportunity do? Why not make a little version of one of these to keep the solar panels spotless? http://www.vcdiscounter.com/01robotic.html Thos are designed for a thick atmosphere and not a thin one, but it is true that it should work! |
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