God or the Big Bang

What is it about the verse, and perhaps also of those
immediately preceding or following, that you like?


I'm a "stargazer" and like the idea that we are predicting things month by
month. The surrounding verses don't interest me.

-Florian

In article ,
Alan W. Craft wrote:

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:21:46 GMT, "Florian"
...reflected:

Hi Alan,

I'm not a theist but i've always liked this verse from the Bible...

Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make
predictions month by month, let them save you from what is
coming upon you. (Isaiah 47:13)

What is it about the verse, and perhaps also of those
immediately preceding or following, that you like?

The slightly sarcastic tone.

"Yeah, go ahead and see if they're any help. Good luck."

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:27:10 GMT, "Florian" ...reflected:

What is it about the verse, and perhaps also of those
immediately preceding or following, that you like?


I'm a "stargazer" and like the idea that we are predicting things month by
month. The surrounding verses don't interest me.

-Florian

I see; you're an astrologer.

How's your accuracy?

Could you, perhaps, tell us when the rains will end?

Alan

"And He brought him outside and said, 'Look toward
heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to
number them.' Then He said to him, 'So shall
your descendants be.' " - Genesis 15:5 (RSVCE)

I see; you're an astrologer.
How's your accuracy?
Could you, perhaps, tell us when the rains will end?


Alan,

I was just sharing a verse from the Bible that i like. That's as far as it
goes. Don't try to make it into anything more.

-Florian

Alan W. Craft wrote...

"...'Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon,
and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon.'
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed..."


Alan,

Do you really believe the sun stood still? Or rather that the Earth stopped
rotating? Do you have any supporting evidence for this?

-Florian

*Absolutely* an untrue statement.....I consider myself a
"born again" Christian from a religious standpoint,
and a thestic evolutionist from a scientific standpoint...
You may not think (or feel) so, but I am living proof that the
two can co-exist very easily. In FACT, if I couldn't have both,
then I would opt for NEITHER..because IMHO, both are correct!
(You may not think so, but I DO!!)
tw



You

can't mix evolution with the Bible. You either believe in God and six
literal days or you don't believe in any god whatsoever and believe in
evolution or you believe is some other religion.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 03:19:42 GMT, "Florian" ...reflected:

Alan W. Craft wrote...

"...'Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon,
and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon.'
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed..."


Alan,

Do you really believe the sun stood still? Or rather that the Earth stopped
rotating? Do you have any supporting evidence for this?

There's one thing about theists, and that is that
we require no proofs nor evidence, however...

There are those who have faith, and until their
earthly passings; and then there are those who have
faith yet are rewarded in this life with the very proofs
you seek, but proofs and evidence that may not be
shown to others, unfortunately, as they are, of course,
of a personal and intangible nature, and as they should
be.

Alan

Florian wrote:
Well, if we are quoting bible passages, here's a word
for all the 'fundamentalists' in Proverbs, 1-22:

"How long, ye simple ones [you], will ye love simplicity?
and the scorners (you) delight in their scorning, and
FOOLS (you) HATE KNOWLEDGE?"

(parenthesis and caps mine)...I know, you'll twist it around
somehow....out of context, etc. I've heard it all before.
TW




Alan W. Craft wrote...


"...'Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon,
and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon.'
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed..."



Alan,

Do you really believe the sun stood still? Or rather that the Earth stopped
rotating? Do you have any supporting evidence for this?

-Florian

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 03:13:59 GMT, "Florian" ...reflected:

I see; you're an astrologer.
How's your accuracy?
Could you, perhaps, tell us when the rains will end?


Alan,

I was just sharing a verse from the Bible that i like. That's as far as it
goes. Don't try to make it into anything more.

-Florian

Mr. Boyd, you weren't very clear, aside from stating
your atheism. After all, one may be an atheist yet espouse
astrology at the same time, I suppose.

Alan

bwhiting wrote:

Florian wrote:
Well, if we are quoting bible passages, here's a word
for all the 'fundamentalists' in Proverbs, 1-22:

"How long, ye simple ones [you], will ye love simplicity?
and the scorners (you) delight in their scorning, and
FOOLS (you) HATE KNOWLEDGE?"

(parenthesis and caps mine)...I know, you'll twist it around
somehow....out of context, etc. I've heard it all before.


Well, in the context of Old Testament writings, "knowledge"
and "wisdom" refer to religious and moral teachings. The idea
of studying anything like natural science as we concieve of
it would have been anathema to those guys.

Scientific learning crept in as mystical esoterica, e.g.
the gematria. Cf. The Book of Enoch where he rambles on
incomprehensibly about calendry. I do find it interesting
as nascent natural science, although the Babylonians did
quite a bit better with the subject.

I was gonna say, though, regarding Proverbs, that there are
some very interesting remarks concerning "wisdom". In Proverbs 8,
Wisdom personified speaks and claims to have been coexistent with
God at the Creation - "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him"

This is significant since it places God within a context of existent
reality. This is also evident in Genesis, as God does not create
Time itself, but acts within time to create the objects of the
material universe. "L.C." remarked that "God isn't big enough"
for the big bang, and I would agree in the sense that Geometrodynamics
is a more ambitious explanation than Genesis, whose writers seemed
not to question the prexistence of absolute space and time.

Lew Mammel, Jr.

"And thus much concerning God; to discourse of whom from the
appearances of things, does certainly belong to Natural Philosphy."

- Newton's General Scholium on Te System of the World