...My Agenda!

To witness the world returned to Nature, once and for all.


I'm laughing too as I type this, as just a few years ago
I'd also brand any such statement ludicrous or the
sign of mental illness. But here's the rub....

My major and hobby is mathematics, in particular one
of the newest fields of math, complexity science. Which
is what chaos theory has grown to become.

http://necsi.org/publications/dcs/index.html
http://www.calresco.org/

With all my heart and mind I believe what math and science
teaches. And my hobby teaches me, the math is clear, that
the above statement ....is possible.

How can a 'shot be heard 'round the world'?

How, exactly, does that happen?

I've spent the last few years practicing on everyone
how to express the concepts involved without requiring
a reader do a year or two of extensive homework....
without the math and in plain English. After all, mathematical
equations are merely shorthand for the spoken word.
If I can't express them to anyone in plain English
then I don't understand the concepts.

Here's some of what complexity science has taught me.

How a tiny pebble can start an unstoppable avalanche.
A non-linear or cascading event where a tiny input
can have enormous or system wide effects.
And in the ...abstract, to allow application to any
system.
http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~jacob...des/15-SOC.pdf

It's taught me the abstract form nature takes, so that
we can see, in any system, what is natural and
unnatural. A mathematical representation of
good and evil. Shouldn't morality be based
on rational thought?
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm

And the chaos and complexity sciences has taught
me one more thing, that ties the above together.

Nature has taught that the exact spot where the
tinyest disturbance must create that avalanche
is at that point where a system is farthest
from natural. As in....

"When the Wall Fell"

Overnight the strongest 'wall' every built came
crashing down. What were the system properties
at the time that happened? The same as that famous
'shot' heard everywhere. The most unnatural system
possible, a very large and very rigid control structure
was suddenly exposed as vulnerable to ...everyone
.....at once.

Shock the sytem, and at it's weakest point.

This means that an abstract understanding of nature
can give us some very powerful tools. Namely how
to easily recognize system weak points, or its
weakest conditions, and how to have the strongest
effect with the smallest cause possible.

In terms of activism, the theoretical limit becomes easy
to find concerning the 'biggest bang for the buck'.


Or.....how a few people can change the world.


If a few people can have such a large effect on the
world, doesn't that mean anarchy and destruction?

No, the power of nature, evolution, is nothing to fear.
Because when a system is shocked in this manner, the
only thing that is imposed is a process of change.
A process of change that settles on the best possible
solution all by itself. And it only works on a system
already at or near bottom, or most unnatural.

When the entire world is dominated by such an evolutionary
process, I consider the world....'returned to nature'.

Utopia is not a place or thing, it's a process of change.
And once that process is understood, it wraps around
you like a warm blanket, and from that moment on
Utopia becomes a personal reality.

So, in looking around the world, I've been trying to find
the two or three greatest obstacles to creating a world
dominated by nature...and...are especially vulnerable
to this kind of non-linear change.

I settled on three things.

In the abstract....

First, we must understand the processes of creation.
Second, we must have the ability for sustained growth.
And third, connect the above two to ....everyone.

So, what systems or issues can best achieve those
goals, and are most vulnerable to non-linear tools?

In reality....

First, is life a fluke? Or the inevitable result of a universal
process? The one system that stands out is the question
of life on Mars. A lot of people on the fence, and pitting
Science vs Religion. Two very large and very rigid control
structures battling it out with the winner decided by
maybe a ...single microbe on a distant planet.

Second, the global warming/energy problems.
An issue that has been strongly under the thumb
of the few and the powerful. Teetering on the brink
of a new mandate being generated from the
grass roots.

And third, find a way of suddenly connecting these
two issues ...and...the entire world at a single
place and time.

Where and when is that non-linear .....sweet spot?

That place and time is completely obvious.

The largest dictatorship (unnatural) system in the
history of humanity is about to become the center
of the world stage with the upcoming Beijing Olympics.
The most polluted, fasted growing, energy hungry and
rigid system in the entire known universe is about
to find itself under the spotlight. It is their chance
to gain legitimacy and will be their point of greatest
system stress....vulnerability.

In and around the Beijing Olympics, a unique and timeless
opportunity will become reality. When the largest and most
unnatural system known will be at it's most vulnerabe moment.

A chance for a single tiny pebble to bring down the last of the
.....Great Walls.

The system dynamics of self fullfilling prophecies, such as
this small event at the 68 Mexico Olympics

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"


Perhaps the Beijing Olympics will provide a moment where such
a small symbolic 'disturbance' could result in nothing less
than returning the world to nature. A tiny symbolic pebble
like this....

http://www.falunau.dyndns.org:8000/a...ren/index.html


It just might be enough to /convince/ 'them' that such a disturbance
is planned, not actually stage it. And their own over reaction
will see to it 'something' happens.

In the proper conditions nature...'finds a way'.

Convincing 'them' something is planned to poliicize the Olympics
is within the grasp of a few, or even one, person.

I intend to find out if the math is correct.


s

On Oct 24, 10:19 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
To witness the world returned to Nature, once and for all.

I'm laughing too as I type this, as just a few years ago
I'd also brand any such statement ludicrous or the
sign of mental illness. But here's the rub....

My major and hobby is mathematics, in particular one
of the newest fields of math, complexity science. Which
is what chaos theory has grown to become.

http://necsi.org/publications/dcs/in....calresco.org/

With all my heart and mind I believe what math and science
teaches. And my hobby teaches me, the math is clear, that
the above statement ....is possible.

How can a 'shot be heard 'round the world'?

How, exactly, does that happen?

I've spent the last few years practicing on everyone
how to express the concepts involved without requiring
a reader do a year or two of extensive homework....
without the math and in plain English. After all, mathematical
equations are merely shorthand for the spoken word.
If I can't express them to anyone in plain English
then I don't understand the concepts.

Here's some of what complexity science has taught me.

How a tiny pebble can start an unstoppable avalanche.
A non-linear or cascading event where a tiny input
can have enormous or system wide effects.
And in the ...abstract, to allow application to any
system.http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~jacob.../CPSC601-73/Sl...

It's taught me the abstract form nature takes, so that
we can see, in any system, what is natural and
unnatural. A mathematical representation of
good and evil. Shouldn't morality be based
on rational thought?http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm

And the chaos and complexity sciences has taught
me one more thing, that ties the above together.

Nature has taught that the exact spot where the
tinyest disturbance must create that avalanche
is at that point where a system is farthest
from natural. As in....

"When the Wall Fell"

Overnight the strongest 'wall' every built came
crashing down. What were the system properties
at the time that happened? The same as that famous
'shot' heard everywhere. The most unnatural system
possible, a very large and very rigid control structure
was suddenly exposed as vulnerable to ...everyone
....at once.

Shock the sytem, and at it's weakest point.

This means that an abstract understanding of nature
can give us some very powerful tools. Namely how
to easily recognize system weak points, or its
weakest conditions, and how to have the strongest
effect with the smallest cause possible.

In terms of activism, the theoretical limit becomes easy
to find concerning the 'biggest bang for the buck'.

Or.....how a few people can change the world.

If a few people can have such a large effect on the
world, doesn't that mean anarchy and destruction?

No, the power of nature, evolution, is nothing to fear.
Because when a system is shocked in this manner, the
only thing that is imposed is a process of change.
A process of change that settles on the best possible
solution all by itself. And it only works on a system
already at or near bottom, or most unnatural.

When the entire world is dominated by such an evolutionary
process, I consider the world....'returned to nature'.

Utopia is not a place or thing, it's a process of change.
And once that process is understood, it wraps around
you like a warm blanket, and from that moment on
Utopia becomes a personal reality.

So, in looking around the world, I've been trying to find
the two or three greatest obstacles to creating a world
dominated by nature...and...are especially vulnerable
to this kind of non-linear change.

I settled on three things.

In the abstract....

First, we must understand the processes of creation.
Second, we must have the ability for sustained growth.
And third, connect the above two to ....everyone.

So, what systems or issues can best achieve those
goals, and are most vulnerable to non-linear tools?

In reality....

First, is life a fluke? Or the inevitable result of a universal
process? The one system that stands out is the question
of life on Mars. A lot of people on the fence, and pitting
Science vs Religion. Two very large and very rigid control
structures battling it out with the winner decided by
maybe a ...single microbe on a distant planet.

Second, the global warming/energy problems.
An issue that has been strongly under the thumb
of the few and the powerful. Teetering on the brink
of a new mandate being generated from the
grass roots.

And third, find a way of suddenly connecting these
two issues ...and...the entire world at a single
place and time.

Where and when is that non-linear .....sweet spot?

That place and time is completely obvious.

The largest dictatorship (unnatural) system in the
history of humanity is about to become the center
of the world stage with the upcoming Beijing Olympics.
The most polluted, fasted growing, energy hungry and
rigid system in the entire known universe is about
to find itself under the spotlight. It is their chance
to gain legitimacy and will be their point of greatest
system stress....vulnerability.

In and around the Beijing Olympics, a unique and timeless
opportunity will become reality. When the largest and most
unnatural system known will be at it's most vulnerabe moment.

A chance for a single tiny pebble to bring down the last of the
....Great Walls.

The system dynamics of self fullfilling prophecies, such as
this small event at the 68 Mexico Olympics

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"

Perhaps the Beijing Olympics will provide a moment where such
a small symbolic 'disturbance' could result in nothing less
than returning the world to nature. A tiny symbolic pebble
like this....

http://www.falunau.dyndns.org:8000/a...Children/index...

It just might be enough to /convince/ 'them' that such a disturbance
is planned, not actually stage it. And their own over reaction
will see to it 'something' happens.

In the proper conditions nature...'finds a way'.

Convincing 'them' something is planned to poliicize the Olympics
is within the grasp of a few, or even one, person.

I intend to find out if the math is correct.

s

You seem to be talking about some kind of resonance effect
(butterfly effect?) that resonates all at once with a
large mass of people who are gathered together in one
place. It would occur, based upon some seat of unconscious
that was never talked about in public, maybe because of
the police state of affairs that used to be so prevalent
in that society, that the people of China are realizing
because of mass communication, the same things that are
happening in their economy, have either already happened
somewhere else, or is unique to their own culture as a
whole. Thus, there are two paths of thought that can be
taken on this:

(1) They recognize the tyranical nature of a place like
N. Korea, and will forever oppose the control that *any*
type of oppressive government has over them, and thus
will forever banish the futile nature of a society that
was never responsive enough in a myriad of ways, to the
people at large.

or

(2) They do not want to become an 'ideologue' of the
United States, or even of the western world, and will
seek to 'make their mark' which uniquely identifies
them as a peculiar variety of economy, that is, a
spacefaring nation.

I see (2) as the better alternative, because the intro-
duction of cell phones and mass media will only have an
enamouring effect for so long, and then the state
controlled media will begin to chill them to the bone.
This should happen so much so, that their communications
job market will have already been swollen to the max,
because of the increased international and domestic
competition, and then the question of, What do you do
with 1.3 billion people, in order to associate them with
making a living that is unique to the Chinese people?

The answer must be that you can only teach them the
universal language of the earth, English, and then send
them away to wherever it is that you want them to go.
In doing this, they can achieve at least bringing a piece
of the universally communicated scientific culture back
to their homeland for intelligence gathering, and see
where their directives lie.

So the "pebble" that you speak of may be an outspoken
critic in the media or communications business that is
able to start an "avalanche", just like when Arnold
Schwartzenegger became elected as governor of California,
so might "Chen Pao Huyens" be the first "rising star"
to rally the people for space exploration (outside of
establishing any additional oil cartels, limited advanced
technological growth, environmentalisms, patriot acts,
pork barrel spending, illegal immigration, software
pirating, or arms deals with the Soviet Union).

In other words, they will end up being just like us,
despite all of the good intentions any human would prefer.

American

"The wisdom that is from above is first pure,
then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated,
full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality,
and without hypocrisy." (James 3:17)

On Oct 24, 10:19 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
To witness the world returned to Nature, once and for all.

[...]

The system dynamics of self fullfilling prophecies, such as
this small event at the 68 Mexico Olympics

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"

Forget the politics, the most memorable event of the Mexico City
Olympics was Bob Beamon breaking the world record long jump by 21 3/4
inches! Having the judges inspect several tapes believing that they
were flawed, as no one breaks a mark like that but by only fractions
of an inch, etc. Yet he did it...

I don't recall if Beamon, who is black, raised his fist in a power
jesture on the podium.


Perhaps the Beijing Olympics will provide a moment where such
a small symbolic 'disturbance' could result in nothing less
than returning the world to nature. A tiny symbolic pebble
like this....

http://www.falunau.dyndns.org:8000/a...Children/index...

I hope one person does something great as Beamon did.


It just might be enough to /convince/ 'them' that such a disturbance
is planned, not actually stage it. And their own over reaction
will see to it 'something' happens.

In the proper conditions nature...'finds a way'.

Convincing 'them' something is planned to poliicize the Olympics
is within the grasp of a few, or even one, person.

I intend to find out if the math is correct.

Explain Beamon's long jump feat with your math....

....if you can!

On Oct 25, 2:16 am, American wrote:

(2) They do not want to become an 'ideologue' of the
United States, or even of the western world,

Perhaps you mean "imitation", "image", or even "eidolon"?

Or that they don't wish to adopt the ideology of the United States or
the Western world.

But I'm not sure that what the Chinese people want has ever mattered,
or is likely to matter any time soon. Shaking up China, were that to
happen, would only give it the opportunity to settle into a lower
energy state. Given that democracy is a fragile thing, hard to
maintain, the best we might hope for is a movement from
totalitarianism to authoritarianism.

John Savard

"Quadibloc" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 25, 2:16 am, American wrote:

(2) They do not want to become an 'ideologue' of the
United States, or even of the western world,

Perhaps you mean "imitation", "image", or even "eidolon"?

Or that they don't wish to adopt the ideology of the United States or
the Western world.

But I'm not sure that what the Chinese people want has ever mattered,
or is likely to matter any time soon.Shaking up China, were that to
happen, would only give it the opportunity to settle into a lower
energy state.


Huh? We're dealing with dictatorships and democracies as
two different types of complex adaptive systems. The first
is a man-made system, where the final product is conceived
in advance, and rigidly maintained. A disturbance is measured
not by energy, but transient length, which is the time the
disturbance lasts. Which can be from near zero to infinite.

The optimum disturbance, the one with the most force, would
be neither zero or infinite, but complex (equal properties of both
extremes). Picture a domino sequence. If not disturbed
enough, the domino may not touch the next one and
the transient length is near zero. Or the dominos might
be on weak springs and initiate a chaotic response that goes
on for quite some time.

Either extreme example drives the system very little from
it's previous equilibrium. A ...complex... disturbance would
define the maximum possible effect.

Picture this, China is a vast array of dominoes that
are kept in place with firm springs. No matter how
much you disturb any one of those dominoes, little
will result. The trick is find a way to apply the very
same force not on one dominoe, but on....
.......THEM ALL AT ONCE.

The force of the event is magnified, in the case of
China, by...a billion. The Olympics for them is a
national coming out party.

It's not so much about the strength of the disturbance, but
the ....connectivity...between the disturbance and
the system components.

The level of connectivity is everything.

A smaller scale example we all witnessed a
few years ago of this non-linear response would
be the Janet Jackson nipple-slip at the Super Bowl.

A fraction of a second nudity, normally an event not
worth mentioning. But the same event within a
very rigid (censored) system that is highly sensitive
to opposition set off a nation wide response. Committees
were formed policies changed and for a day or two
everyone talked about it.

A tiny event cascaded because of the system structure, the
character of the disturbance, and the extremely high
level of connectivity to the system components (people).

The trick is to find the complex solution to all the primary
questions involved.

For instance, the nipple slip is an extraordinary example
of a complex solution. It was a work of high art.
And here's why.


Was it an deliberate of an accident?
Was it a publicity stunt or a statement against censorship?
Was is porn or an expression of beauty?
In the abstract, was it static or chaotic.
Was it obviously one or the other extreme?

If the event clearly defines itself, that is one extreme
or the other. But if the ....observer...is left to decide
due to the event being an equal combination of either
possibility, that it is complex.

Like the Mona Lisa smile, if the observer is left to decide
which it is? It then has the maximum potential to
create change, the strongest transient.

Complexity defines art and beauty.


Even Dear Emily intuitively understood the power
of standing /between/ the extremes, and allowing
the observers to fight over which truth is being
displayed by the event or work.



Through the straight pass of suffering
The martyrs even trod,
Their feet upon temptation,
Their faces upon God.

A stately, shriven company;
Convulsion playing round,
Harmless as streaks of meteor
Upon a plant's bound.

Their faith the everlasting troth;
Their expectation fair;
The needle to the north degree
Wades so, through polar air.




Given that democracy is a fragile thing,


No more fragile than a healthy forest or the Congo.
In fact, a democracy, once established, defines
resilience.

hard to
maintain,


Come on. The primary property of evolutionary systems
as with a democracy, is it's ability to settle on the best
possible solution all by itself, as with a market system
or a forest. Democracies are hard to ....start, but once
over the hump, they are almost impossible to destroy
or stop from spreading.



the best we might hope for is a movement from
totalitarianism to authoritarianism.


The two have almost identical system properties.
It doesn't really matter if a society is governed
by a rigid military, religious or corrupt capitalist
system. They are all rigid structures highly susceptible
to non-linear effects. There is a ...reason...why
such control systems seek to control communication
speech and assembly first and foremost. To isolate
the system components from each other and prevent
just such a cascading movement.

China has the most rigid (static) political system
around. It also has a very corrupt or abusive form
of capitalism. Whenever a rigid control system
attempts to contain an evolving populace, stress
inevitably builds. Leading ....inevitably...to conflict
and destruction.

It is typical, however, to suddenly swing from
one extreme to the other once the "wall falls".
In nature change follows a power law, which means
countless small changes combines with a few
very large catastrophic changes.

As in the Soviet Union, from a tightly controlled
and uniform society to chaos overnight. And
over time evolving back to the the middle or
....complex...solution. A dynamic combination
of both extremes.

As in capitalism tempered with socialist ideals.
As in the struggle between laws and freedom.
When one can't tell which dominates, you have
a naturally evolving complex system. One that
takes on a life of it's own, self organizes and
defines the very best the universe has to
offer.








John Savard

"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 24, 10:19 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
To witness the world returned to Nature, once and for all.

[...]

The system dynamics of self fullfilling prophecies, such as
this small event at the 68 Mexico Olympics

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"

Forget the politics, the most memorable event of the Mexico City
Olympics was Bob Beamon breaking the world record long jump by 21 3/4
inches! Having the judges inspect several tapes believing that they
were flawed, as no one breaks a mark like that but by only fractions
of an inch, etc. Yet he did it...

I don't recall if Beamon, who is black, raised his fist in a power
jesture on the podium.


Perhaps the Beijing Olympics will provide a moment where such
a small symbolic 'disturbance' could result in nothing less
than returning the world to nature. A tiny symbolic pebble
like this....

http://www.falunau.dyndns.org:8000/a...Children/index...

I hope one person does something great as Beamon did.


It just might be enough to /convince/ 'them' that such a disturbance
is planned, not actually stage it. And their own over reaction
will see to it 'something' happens.

In the proper conditions nature...'finds a way'.

Convincing 'them' something is planned to poliicize the Olympics
is within the grasp of a few, or even one, person.

I intend to find out if the math is correct.

Explain Beamon's long jump feat with your math....

...if you can!


Well that's easy. An emergent or complex solution is always
the dynamic combination of system specific opposite extremes.
Such as a democracy pitting the rule of law against freedoms.
Or with biological evolution a system combining the opposite
forces of genetics and mutation. Control vs chaos.
Or static vs chaotic.

This is the natural or optimum solution.

So, with high jumping, what are the system specific
opposite extremes in possibility.

Wouldn't it be horizontal and vertical velocity?

If one or the other dominates, the system fails.
If both are in equilibrium, and btw, at simultaneous
maximums, the system shines....is complex.


Or a diet for instance. The opposite extremes are
typically intake vs exercise. Which would define
the best diet? One or the other extremes, or
both combined?

"American" wrote in message
ups.com...


You seem to be talking about some kind of resonance effect
(butterfly effect?) that resonates all at once with a
large mass of people who are gathered together in one
place.


That's right. When the event is strongly connected
to the bulk of the system components. But the
character of the initial event is crucial for it
to cascade. The event must not clearly define
itself, or be obvious. It must be designed to
combine the opposites in possibility for the
system at hand. And each opposite must
be at it's own extreme.

For instance, the competition between censorship
and free speech. If each camp took an extreme
position, no freedom vs no restrictions, it would
likely fissle. But what if someone combined the
opposites into one system. The idealistic extreme
of complete freedom, with the ugliest speech
possible?

Let's say a movement tried to defend free speech
by insisting on a right to show snuff flicks.
You have the opposite extremes in possibility
combined and each at simultaneous mamimums.

Good and evil in one system. Such a ...complex...
system, combining both extremes draws people
into the debate. Complexity or uncertainty is
an attractor.

Whatever the system at hand is, define it's opposites
in possibility, then combine them.

As in Dante combining visions of heaven and hell
in one work. The state space is expanded to the
maximum possible, from one limit to the other,
allowing the observer to chose which extreme
or combination is being displayed.

Let the observer define the event or work.
And everyone can find a place of interest/



It would occur, based upon some seat of unconscious
that was never talked about in public, maybe because of
the police state of affairs that used to be so prevalent
in that society, that the people of China are realizing
because of mass communication, the same things that are
happening in their economy, have either already happened
somewhere else, or is unique to their own culture as a
whole. Thus, there are two paths of thought that can be
taken on this:

(1) They recognize the tyranical nature of a place like
N. Korea, and will forever oppose the control that *any*
type of oppressive government has over them, and thus
will forever banish the futile nature of a society that
was never responsive enough in a myriad of ways, to the
people at large.

or

(2) They do not want to become an 'ideologue' of the
United States, or even of the western world, and will
seek to 'make their mark' which uniquely identifies
them as a peculiar variety of economy, that is, a
spacefaring nation.


I don't think it matters exactly what the people
want. I think what matters is that a rigid or
unchanging control system ....must...eventually
come into conflict with a population that is
evolving or changing over time. You just cannot
get past the fact that one changes over time
while the other doesn't. The two camps, govt
and the people....must drift apart over time.

As long as the political system remains static, the
stress must internal system stress must build over
time. And in proportion to the rigidity of the govt.

Conflict and destruction are inevitable.

And it is this internal stress that causes the whole
to become increasingly brittle over time.
Where once the damn is pierced, even so
slightly, it all collapses overnight.

China is the largest and most brittle house of cards
this planet has ever seen. The Beijing Olympics
should define the point of maximum system stress
with all thats riding on it's success. And with so
many people watching ...at the same time.

The power of any disturbance, if properly designed, could
be amplified a billion fold by the level of connectivity
between the event and the people.

There's a reason dictatorships are so determined
to control communication, speech and assembly.
So any disturbance is limilted to just a few, so
the entire govt can pounce on a few.

A non-linear approach seeks to reverse that.
Where all the people respond at once.
No govt can possibly contain that.




I see (2) as the better alternative, because the intro-
duction of cell phones and mass media will only have an
enamouring effect for so long, and then the state
controlled media will begin to chill them to the bone.
This should happen so much so, that their communications
job market will have already been swollen to the max,
because of the increased international and domestic
competition, and then the question of, What do you do
with 1.3 billion people, in order to associate them with
making a living that is unique to the Chinese people?

The answer must be that you can only teach them the
universal language of the earth, English, and then send
them away to wherever it is that you want them to go.
In doing this, they can achieve at least bringing a piece
of the universally communicated scientific culture back
to their homeland for intelligence gathering, and see
where their directives lie.

So the "pebble" that you speak of may be an outspoken
critic in the media or communications business that is
able to start an "avalanche", just like when Arnold
Schwartzenegger became elected as governor of California,
so might "Chen Pao Huyens" be the first "rising star"
to rally the people for space exploration (outside of
establishing any additional oil cartels, limited advanced
technological growth, environmentalisms, patriot acts,
pork barrel spending, illegal immigration, software
pirating, or arms deals with the Soviet Union).

In other words, they will end up being just like us,
despite all of the good intentions any human would prefer.

American


Why not, America is by far the most diverse around.
A small scale example of what the world is sure to
become someday.

Natural evolutionary processes have the property of
finding the best possible solutions for any given
problem. Honest democracies and market systems
mimic very well the abstract properties of
Darwinian evolution. So any two societies that
are evolving should settle on similar answers.
Adjusted for local conditions.

Just because nature can be cruel, culling the less fit, doesn't
mean a society has to do the same. We can chose to cull
only bad ideas say, bad products and behavior, not people.






"The wisdom that is from above is first pure,
then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated,
full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality,
and without hypocrisy." (James 3:17)

in article , Eric
Chomko at wrote on 10/25/07 2:14 PM:

On Oct 24, 10:19 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
To witness the world returned to Nature, once and for all.

[...]

The system dynamics of self fullfilling prophecies, such as
this small event at the 68 Mexico Olympics

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"

Forget the politics, the most memorable event of the Mexico City
Olympics was Bob Beamon breaking the world record long jump by 21 3/4
inches! Having the judges inspect several tapes believing that they
were flawed, as no one breaks a mark like that but by only fractions
of an inch, etc. Yet he did it...

I don't recall if Beamon, who is black, raised his fist in a power
jesture on the podium.


Perhaps the Beijing Olympics will provide a moment where such
a small symbolic 'disturbance' could result in nothing less
than returning the world to nature. A tiny symbolic pebble
like this....

http://www.falunau.dyndns.org:8000/a...Children/index...

I hope one person does something great as Beamon did.


It just might be enough to /convince/ 'them' that such a disturbance
is planned, not actually stage it. And their own over reaction
will see to it 'something' happens.

In the proper conditions nature...'finds a way'.

Convincing 'them' something is planned to poliicize the Olympics
is within the grasp of a few, or even one, person.

I intend to find out if the math is correct.

Explain Beamon's long jump feat with your math....

...if you can!

Years ago the American Journal of Physics (the journal of the American
Association of Physics Teachers) had an article on the physics behind the
differences in performance due to the higher altitude of Mexico City. I'm
not sure if you can find the article online, but a university library should
have it.

Jonathan wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 24, 10:19 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
To witness the world returned to Nature, once and for all.

[...]

The system dynamics of self fullfilling prophecies, such as
this small event at the 68 Mexico Olympics

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"

Forget the politics, the most memorable event of the Mexico City
Olympics was Bob Beamon breaking the world record long jump by 21 3/4
inches! Having the judges inspect several tapes believing that they
were flawed, as no one breaks a mark like that but by only fractions
of an inch, etc. Yet he did it...

I don't recall if Beamon, who is black, raised his fist in a power
jesture on the podium.


Perhaps the Beijing Olympics will provide a moment where such
a small symbolic 'disturbance' could result in nothing less
than returning the world to nature. A tiny symbolic pebble
like this....

http://www.falunau.dyndns.org:8000/a...Children/index...

I hope one person does something great as Beamon did.


It just might be enough to /convince/ 'them' that such a disturbance
is planned, not actually stage it. And their own over reaction
will see to it 'something' happens.

In the proper conditions nature...'finds a way'.

Convincing 'them' something is planned to poliicize the Olympics
is within the grasp of a few, or even one, person.

I intend to find out if the math is correct.

Explain Beamon's long jump feat with your math....

...if you can!


Well that's easy. An emergent or complex solution is always
the dynamic combination of system specific opposite extremes.
Such as a democracy pitting the rule of law against freedoms.
Or with biological evolution a system combining the opposite
forces of genetics and mutation. Control vs chaos.
Or static vs chaotic.

This is the natural or optimum solution.

So, with high jumping, what are the system specific
opposite extremes in possibility.

Wouldn't it be horizontal and vertical velocity?

If one or the other dominates, the system fails.
If both are in equilibrium, and btw, at simultaneous
maximums, the system shines....is complex.


Or a diet for instance. The opposite extremes are
typically intake vs exercise. Which would define
the best diet? One or the other extremes, or
both combined?

In the affairs of man (due to his contrary nature - yes/no love/hate
poverty/riches etc+/ etc-) this seems to be true - 'The Power of
Opposites' (attract).... - that something only has value (power) to
the extent that its opposite is also 'true'. But what do you make of
it for the natural world (science)? For example the Nonsense of Plate
Tectonics? It is we who pontificate 'the thing' and its
contradiction at the same time and assign them the same validity,
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/nonsense/subcrux.html
..not nature. And indeed combine the two to give supposedly greater
force. In nature there is only one correct option. Things are not
paired 'in extremis' . Attraction would seem to be the opposite of
repulsion (from the viewpoint of human experience, but is it, in the
real world? Is 'no mass' really the opposite of 'mass'? What is
the opposite of an atom? What is the opposite of 'sky'? a mountain?
a river? Or that pile of ****e with an aresehole that calls itself
Big Al?

What then?

On Oct 25, 10:24 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"American" wrote in message

ups.com...



You seem to be talking about some kind of resonance effect
(butterfly effect?) that resonates all at once with a
large mass of people who are gathered together in one
place.

That's right. When the event is strongly connected
to the bulk of the system components. But the
character of the initial event is crucial for it
to cascade. The event must not clearly define
itself, or be obvious. It must be designed to
combine the opposites in possibility for the
system at hand. And each opposite must
be at it's own extreme.

You mean anomalous, but muffled enough to cause a stir
in the sense of something that was 'muffled', or 'muzzled'.
We're seeing that *all* the time in this society, in terms
of a monopoly in the energy industry, where somebody
or something (like increased gas prices) always seems to
be calling the shots. Well I've thought about this quite a bit,
and I've come to the conclusion that it'll get a lot worse
the more we think about it. So the answer is, don't think
about it that much until that 'tipping point' comes. When it
does, everybody will be involved - probably the whole world.

You see, its more than just the Chinese who are involved -
it's the Middle East, Israel, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan,
India, Pakistan - the whole region is a hotbed of conflict,
mainly because it is oil that (would) drive all of their econ-
omies. Once the oil isn't available, all hell brakes loose,
because any oil-based economy of the earth will implode,
causing mass chaos in those areas that are affected.

If just a few of the major oil producing refineries around the
world were nuked, causing mass panic in those areas, and
if a rush for oil to the already strained producers were the
result, oil would skyrocket to over $200.00 a barrel, costing
as much as $10.00 a gallon at the pumps. People would
just park their cars. Borrowers would default on their loans,
prices for all delivered goods at the supermarket would
increase. Financial institutions would implode.

It's the deal that we've already made with the devil. The
manipulations are in place in order to cause an increase
and/or adjustment in the market in the event that some rev-
olutionary energy alternative should appear. As Brad Guth
says, and with whom such usenet naysayisms reign supreme,
it's "don't rock thy boat of the good ship LOLLIPOP" that gets
rocked over, spilling whatever good intentions that the warlords
had with us, into a sea of foaming shame and remorse.

Now we wouldn't want THAT to happen until ARMAGEDDON,
right? But here come the Chinese, and they are no closer
to introducing a revolutionary energy alternative than we are.
So we bow to each other and go our oily, merry ways, right?
No, not quite. If the Chinese people are as intelligent as I
thought they were, then they can also figure out a way
out of their world situation before it's too late.

Are you saying that the Beijing Olympics could be the tipping
point? I doubt it. The Olympics will be too controlled, media-
spun, and publicised to matter about anything revolutionary.
The truth will continue to be squelched, but I wouldn't even
put it past some radically anti-militaristic contingent to make
their mark. (They've done it in the past, you know, and for
much better reasons than the all the swine over here would).

American

The Sephiroth of the Tree of Life has many rituals, yet all
must ascend to face judgement.