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  #91  
Old October 28th 07, 03:47 PM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
BoredToTears
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On 28 Oct, 14:33, "Jane" wrote:
"BoredToTears" wrote in message

ups.com...



On 28 Oct, 14:10, "Jane" wrote:
"BoredToTears" wrote in message


roups.com...


On 27 Oct, 16:55, "Jane" wrote:


I guess I would still need to hear the accents together to get the
differences, do you know of any good websites that has sound bites?


Jane


Have you watched the film 300? I sound just like King Leonidas.
Seriously! Pity I don't have his six-pack.


yes I have watched it and LOVED it , so I bought it ) Great accent
BTT!!!
He's fricken hot too.


You should hear my version of:


"King Leonidas: You bring the crowns and heads of conquered kings to
my city steps. You insult my queen. You threaten my people with
slavery and death! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Persian.
Perhaps you should have done the same!
Messenger: This is blasphemy! This is madness!
King Leonidas: Madness...? THIS... IS... SPARTA!"


It's uncanny! ;o)


Ok now you have to record it an email it to me!!!!



Hahaha! I reckon my neighbours think I'm nutty enough without them
over-hearing me shouting into a microphone doing Gerard Butler
impressions!

  #92  
Old October 28th 07, 03:54 PM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Jane[_2_]
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"BoredToTears" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 28 Oct, 14:33, "Jane" wrote:
"BoredToTears" wrote in message

ups.com...



On 28 Oct, 14:10, "Jane" wrote:
"BoredToTears" wrote in message


roups.com...


On 27 Oct, 16:55, "Jane" wrote:


I guess I would still need to hear the accents together to get the
differences, do you know of any good websites that has sound bites?


Jane


Have you watched the film 300? I sound just like King Leonidas.
Seriously! Pity I don't have his six-pack.


yes I have watched it and LOVED it , so I bought it ) Great accent
BTT!!!
He's fricken hot too.


You should hear my version of:


"King Leonidas: You bring the crowns and heads of conquered kings to
my city steps. You insult my queen. You threaten my people with
slavery and death! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Persian.
Perhaps you should have done the same!
Messenger: This is blasphemy! This is madness!
King Leonidas: Madness...? THIS... IS... SPARTA!"


It's uncanny! ;o)


Ok now you have to record it an email it to me!!!!



Hahaha! I reckon my neighbours think I'm nutty enough without them
over-hearing me shouting into a microphone doing Gerard Butler
impressions!


Well I definately would get a kick outta it. heehee!


  #93  
Old October 28th 07, 04:51 PM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Rowland McDonnell
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Jane wrote:

"Rowland McDonnell" wrote:
Jane wrote:


The /harsh/ Scouse accent doesn't sound laid back. Nor does the
Mancunian accent. Scousers do at least do `fun'. Mancs - well, the
city's just a bit too aggressive for my liking. Yes, I lived there for
years and I still visit on occasion. I now live on Merseyside - but the
other side of the river Mersey from Liverpool.

It's like this: Scousers and Mancs will both rob you blind. Mancs
prefer to leave you bleeding in the gutter. Scousers prefer to steal
from you unawares and then try to sell you back your own property.

The above is a humorous caricature - but gets the idea across.


Back in my early twenties I dated a guy who's family was originally from
Ireland. He was born and raised in Minnesota but he had Uncles,
Grandparents and cousins still living in Ireland, they would come to visit
etc. It was great I loved their accents.


mischievous grin But could you ever get a word in edgeways when the
Irish contingent were in the house? ;-)

The odd thing about the Liverpudlian and its lower-class - some might
say semi-criminal - relative the Scouse accent is that they're very
different to the accents from neighbouring parts of England (or any
other part of England for that matter). I'd often wondered about this,
until the day I heard the late, great George Melly demonstrate that the
difference is due to a large Irish influence - look at the map paying
attention to the location of Dublin and Liverpool to understand where
that came from (well, and the fact that Britain kept rather a lot of the
Irish dirt poor so they *had* to emigrate to make money; my country has
a dishonourable history in oh! - so many ways).

Anyway, he `did' a Liverpudlian (never Scouse, not Melly!) accent, and
slowly, stage by stage, morphed it into a Dublin accent and then back
again - yep, the connection is there all right.

We had a British female police office come stay with us for a month on an
exchange, my uncle was cheif of police in the small town we lived in, he
didn't have the extra room my mother did. Anyway, her accent was really
smooth. I loved the slangs she used and read them a lot here and on the UK
site.


grin I once mentioned to a Texan about `popping down the shops for a
packet of fags'. He jumped visibly at that one - I think he worked out
what I meant, what with him having worked abroad rather a lot, but -
well, I reminded myself to `try to speak American' what with me being on
the 'plane to Texas... The strange thing is that while I seemed to have
little trouble *understanding* American dialects, I'm damned if I could
speak American - vocabulary, that is. My accent is unlikely to change.
Slowly, slowly, one item at a time, I expanded my `vocabulary for
speaking with' even though my `vocabulary for listening with' was up to
the job. Weird, eh? Oh, it was a pain, it really was. And I'd had no
idea that I couldn't speak American until I found that, erm, I couldn't.

West coast I'm not sure yet, I've never been around a native west coast
person to really listen to their dialect. Northern states like
Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, Northern Michigan, well we all
sound a lot like the Canadians do. I live in Florida now and northern
Floridians sound like deep south accents of Georgia and Louisianna,
southern Florida is so mixed with New Yorkers and Cubans, Mexicans,
Haitians etc there is no real distiction.


Righto. A shame the distictions are going - but it's the same
everywhere.


It is a shame,


Too many languages are evaporating. sigh I mean, it's convenient for
*me*, 'cos the language that's taking over is English - but it's not
good.

On the bright side, Welsh had been looking at extinction round about now
if they'd not done something about it back in the 1950s - that one's
back, although there are `issues' in Wales regarding discrimination
against non-Welsh speakers (something like 75% of the population of
Wales) that need sorting out. There was a programme about that on BBC
Radio 4 last week, with a Welsh-speaking native Welshman explaining his
uneasiness about the pro-Welsh language (in the Plaid-approved accent,
it must be) bigotry that he's met. He's not happy about the
discrimination at all.

[Umm. Plaid Cymru: Party of Wales. The Welsh Nationalist political
party. So: Plaid-approved accent = messy way of saying `Party approved
accent' but specifying the Welsh (nationalist) party what with me using
the Welsh word rather than the usual `Party' in that context - which
would probably either mean Labour or Communist, depending on context.
And hardly anyone's a card-carrying Communist Party member these days.
Oh, we used to have loads - but they've been a standing joke for
decades]

(there is the other problem that the language that's taking over is
degraded English. Have you any idea what the apparatus of the EU has
done to English? They have a special dialect of `Euro-English' which is
painful to read, but it's what they use for official everything when
written in English. There are moves afoot to create an `international
English' which has been modified to make it easier for speakers of other
languages. And that's even worse - at least the EU version just uses
awkward syntax and vocabulary designed to suit French people (AFAICT,
anyway) rather than messing it about too much. Did you notice how I
*didn't* scream at US English here? Oh, it's a mess in some patches as
far as I'm concerned: but it's a set of natural langauge dialects that
you lot developed naturally, so - well, use it! It's yours! Let the
language live! And don't get me started on the pidgin English brands
from the Far East. Okay, okay, natural dialects, developed naturally
for people to use and they're useful. But... ARGH!!!)

there is a saying here in South Florida, that there are no
Native Floridians in south Florida, not unless you're under 5 years old, the
rest immigrated here from other countries or other locations inside of the
US.


You might be entertained to find out that the Football Association of
Ireland (FAI) often has its initials explained as `Find Another
Irishman'. But that's because Ireland has its own Gaelic games to play,
not because Ireland is short of Irishmen.

Most Native Floridians move out of south Florida when they can because
of how expensive it is to live here and the amount of crime there is as
well.


Righto. Coo.

I love the weather here, I don't do well in the cold anymore, but I
too would leave and move to another warm state if it were feasable.


Speaking for myself, I don't do well in the heat. Slows me down. I
like sunshine, mind, just not the heat. Or the bloody insects you get
in hot places yammering away at night or trying to eat you alive (mind
you, they have midges in Scotland capable of stripping a cow to the bone
in 30s - at least, that's what one thinks when under attack by the evil
buggers).

Personally, no. Why not come and visit and travel about a bit? ;-)


thanks Rowland, I would love to visit and travel about, money though and I
have so many responsibilities here that maybe in my retirement years I might
but now I just really couldn't afford it.


Fair enough - 'tis the same for most people, alas. Although the weak
dollar (good for US exports, bad for US tourists abroad) can't be
helping.

Rowland.

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  #94  
Old October 29th 07, 03:42 AM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Jane[_2_]
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"Rowland McDonnell" wrote in message
...


Back in my early twenties I dated a guy who's family was originally from
Ireland. He was born and raised in Minnesota but he had Uncles,
Grandparents and cousins still living in Ireland, they would come to
visit
etc. It was great I loved their accents.


mischievous grin But could you ever get a word in edgeways when the
Irish contingent were in the house? ;-)


Actually no I didn't get much word in LOL but it was fun anyway, I spent
most of the time trying to figure out what they were saying and laughing so
hard at times when I would try to talk with their accent and trying to get
them to speak with an American accent. It was great fun having them around
for the times they did visit. It's too bad I lost touch with all of them,
it would be so great to see them again.


The odd thing about the Liverpudlian and its lower-class - some might
say semi-criminal - relative the Scouse accent is that they're very
different to the accents from neighbouring parts of England (or any
other part of England for that matter). I'd often wondered about this,
until the day I heard the late, great George Melly demonstrate that the
difference is due to a large Irish influence - look at the map paying
attention to the location of Dublin and Liverpool to understand where
that came from (well, and the fact that Britain kept rather a lot of the
Irish dirt poor so they *had* to emigrate to make money; my country has
a dishonourable history in oh! - so many ways).

Anyway, he `did' a Liverpudlian (never Scouse, not Melly!) accent, and
slowly, stage by stage, morphed it into a Dublin accent and then back
again - yep, the connection is there all right.


that would be so cool to hear... maybe I'll spend some time when I have it
just messing around on the internet listening to all the different accents.

grin I once mentioned to a Texan about `popping down the shops for a
packet of fags'. He jumped visibly at that one - I think he worked out
what I meant, what with him having worked abroad rather a lot, but -
well, I reminded myself to `try to speak American' what with me being on
the 'plane to Texas... The strange thing is that while I seemed to have
little trouble *understanding* American dialects, I'm damned if I could
speak American - vocabulary, that is. My accent is unlikely to change.
Slowly, slowly, one item at a time, I expanded my `vocabulary for
speaking with' even though my `vocabulary for listening with' was up to
the job. Weird, eh? Oh, it was a pain, it really was. And I'd had no
idea that I couldn't speak American until I found that, erm, I couldn't.


That is funny, the exchange police officer smoked as well and when she asked
my Uncle for a fag I about dropped to the floor. I was about 13 at the time
so of course I had no idea what she was talking about but like the child I
was I giggled for days. Of course I couldn't wait to go to school the next
day and tell all of my friends.

I lived in Texas (Dallas/Ft Worth) for four years. My son was born there,
by the time I had left Texas and moved back to Minnesota my accent was very
strong. All the Minnesotans laughed at my accent for sometime. It took
almost a year to shake it and I find myself when talking to some of the deep
southern accents here in Florida, that mine creeps back in. When I talk to
my family in Minnesota they say my "Floridian Accent" is pretty strong.
Funny how I don't hear it?

I love the weather here, I don't do well in the cold anymore, but I
too would leave and move to another warm state if it were feasable.


Speaking for myself, I don't do well in the heat. Slows me down. I
like sunshine, mind, just not the heat. Or the bloody insects you get
in hot places yammering away at night or trying to eat you alive (mind
you, they have midges in Scotland capable of stripping a cow to the bone
in 30s - at least, that's what one thinks when under attack by the evil
buggers).


I used to be very accustomed to the cold, being born and raised in
Minnesota. We had average winter temps in the single digits to the teens
below zero. I drove snowmobiles, went ice fishing on the frozen lakes,
played broom ball (ice hockey in boots with a broom and a small rubber ball)
I loved winter sports. As I got older my health deteriorated quickly, and
at 41 without a thyroid, I just can't seem to stay warm, even in Florida if
the temp falls into the 70'sF I get chilled. I can't go home in the winter,
I think it would kill me.


Personally, no. Why not come and visit and travel about a bit? ;-)


thanks Rowland, I would love to visit and travel about, money though and
I
have so many responsibilities here that maybe in my retirement years I
might
but now I just really couldn't afford it.


Fair enough - 'tis the same for most people, alas. Although the weak
dollar (good for US exports, bad for US tourists abroad) can't be
helping.


No it definitely isn't, but I want to Thank you Rowland, this has been a
nice conversation with you and I've enjoyed it.

Jane


  #95  
Old October 29th 07, 02:02 PM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Rowland McDonnell
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Jonathan wrote:

"Rowland McDonnell" wrote:

Us Brits know all about the bad **** *our* nation has done
over the years - we get taught it in school. *WE* don't shy away from
admitting it.



So what's it like to live in a police state?


I don't know: you tell me. Your nation is closer to that description
than is mine.

I spent a week in the DDR once. That wasn't a police state any more
than the modern UK is. I spent a week in the USA once. That's not a
police state either. I know you will dismiss this point as hate-filled
bigotry to save you responding to it, but the DDR had aspects of the
police state about it and *some* of them have been introduced to the USA
since 9/11 but are still very firmly illegal in the UK - the police and
spooks here keep asking for these extra powers, but Parliament keeps
telling them to stuff it.

The DDR's secret police, the Stasi, used powers similar to some of those
granted to US police and intelligence services in the wake of 9/11.
Such powers would have been unthinkable in the USA before that date, but
it seems you lot are sleepwalking into an oppressive regime for the sake
of security.

Wasn't it one of the founding fathers of your nation who made the point
that anyone who gives up liberty in exchange for security - as your
nation has done since 9/11 - deserves neither? Yes, I think it was.

Your criticism of America is biased.


Your criticism of my country is based on total ignorance. Your defence
of America is based on hatred and bigotry and ignorance.

And you possess no sense of humour.

If there's something biased about my criticism, explain where the bias
is. All you've done is launch a hate-filled bigoted attack against me
personally which is based on nothing but your hatred for anyone who
dares to suggest that your nation is less than perfect.

If I have a bias in fact, you will be able to analyse my words and
demonstrate where that bias lies without descending to personal abuse.

So: if you are capable of not descending to personal abuse and can
indeed assemble a coherent factual argument, let's hear it.

But on current showing, your education has been so poor that you are
incapable of an intellectual feat of that nature. I predict that you
will merely hoot and gibber at me some more, like a chimp in a cage at a
zoo.

You see only the negative as you
obviously need something to hate.


I think the USA is a brilliant idea and I'm all in favour of it.

I hate the ignorance and bigotry expressed by people like you.

So what I do is throw back your ignorance and bigotry into your faces -
just turning around the things you lot say about other parts of the
world, but applying them to the USA.

It's called `taking the ****' where I come from. Intelligent people
respond in a good humoured way (although it might be very sharp good
humour). Humourless idiots respond to me by ignoring any points I make
and insulting and attacking me personally. The respond just like you,
complaining about me being `biased' (as if you are not!) and so on - but
they never seem to have any response to the actual arguments I raise
about the flaws of the USA. No response to that at all - it seems that
for all that you claim I'm biased, you don't actually have any reason
for saying that aside from having defined all criticism of the USA as
evidence of bias. You seem to have abandoned the founding ideals of the
USA - rationality and science - and replaced them with bigotry and
faith.

And you lot don't half get cross. It seems that you're happy to dish
out ignorant ravings about other nations, but you get very very cross
indeed when people criticise your own nation. And you're utterly
incapable of addressing any concerns anyone has about your nation:
you've decided that the USA is perfect, and so anyone criticising your
nation must be attacked violently. That sort of behaviour is why so
many people outside the USA are so critical of your compatriots: it's
utterly unreasonable, uncivilised, and very backwards behaviour. But
you're too ignorant to understand that point, aren't you? You're just
not as good a human being as the USAians I've actually met in real life
- you're letting the side down, you are. You're a disgrace to your
country: not up to the standard that I have met in US citizens.

And it's interesting to focus on the fact that your type - and you *are*
a type, there's a lot of you about - never seem to have any argument
against what I say except to tell me that I'm a hate-filled bigot - and
all because I can see that there are things wrong with the way your
country is run and tell you about some of them.

You never have any counter to any points I raise - you just launch
personal attacks against me, exposing the shallowness of your intellect
and your moral bankruptcy for all to see. It's quite funny, watching
you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole without you even knowing
that you're doing it.

That's why I do it: I happen to think that the USA is a brilliant idea,
but it's broken and it's broken because of hate-filled ignorant bigots
like you. It's not the USA I hate: it's the ignorant bigotry of many of
its citizens that has permitted the USA to leave decent, civilised
values so far behind in recent years.

I've met many, many people from the USA and even in the USA the one time
I visited. Every US citizen I've ever spent any significant time
talking to has turned out to be a decent, educated, cultivated,
intelligent, well-informed reasonable human being who was a pleasure to
converse with - in glaring contrast to *YOU* they were all very nice
people.

People like you are the reason the USA is broken.

Hate-filled ignorant bigots like you refuse to address any criticism of
your nation: you defend all actions of the USA as right and proper, and
you attack anyone criticising the USA as a hated-filled bigot.

That attitude is what is known as `bigotry'.

You never admit that your nation is imperfect - and so, of course, your
nation continues with bad government making bad decisions, messsing up
your nation and others.

If you were at all rational, you would see that much criticism of the
USA is fully justified - and then you'd do something about it and get
the USA working properly.

But not, you're an ignorant bigot, you defend the USA regardless, and -
well, I have a book here by Robert Heinlein: a patriotic American who,
unlike you, volunteered for military service and served his country
bravely until illness forced him to retire from the profession he had
chosen to follow: a military officer defending his nation. I'd shake
his hand - but I'd spit in your face.

Expanded Universe is the book - take a read. Much of my criticism of
the USA is simply repeating what Heinlein explained to me. I get my
information about what's wrong with the USA from loyal, patriotic
Americans like him in many cases - not traitors to its founding
principles like *you* and your `friends'.

Hated-filled bigot - is that who you think Heinlein was, eh?

He explained that was *certain* that the USA could never ever start a
war against another nation. But your nation, the USA, has in fact gone
off the rails so far since Heinlein's death that is *HAS* done so -
invaded Iraq!

But you don't see any problem with that, do you?

There is only one way to knock America
down to size, to diminish our influence
and power. The only way is for other countries
to become free market democracies.


There are no free markets in the world, and the only democractic nation
in the world is Switzerland. The USA is one of the least democratic
`democratic' nations going - although the UK is even less democratic
(it's quite funny: the UK, `mother of all parliaments', `home of
democracy' - but we don't have democracy!). Democracy is denied almost
everyone in the world.

Also: all markets are heavily regulated and utterly un-free; hence, for
example, recent WTO sanctions against the USA for failing to scrap its
illegal farm subsidies which are - along with other similar subsidies
elsewhere in the world - the cause of much famine and hardship in Africa
and the developing world generally.

So: it might well be that democracy and free markets are a good idea.
But we don't have 'em and never have had. The USA has some of the least
free markets in the `developed' world, which is why the WTO spends so
much time threatening and sometimes implementing economic sanctions
against the USA - the USA has far too many illegal protectionist
measures implemented by the US government to distort the so-called `free
market' and `protect' its businesses at home. At the same time as the
US government demands that other nations dismantle *their* trade
barriers, the US government refuses to take down its own trade barriers!

You need to learn how the world works. And get yourself a sense of
humour and a sense of perspective. And learn how to stop hating -
you've got far too much hatred inside you against `outsiders', haven't
you? It's one of the signs of your bigotry that I mentioned.

[snip]

Rowland.

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  #96  
Old October 29th 07, 02:23 PM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Rowland McDonnell
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Owain wrote:

Rowland McDonnell wrote:
Too many languages are evaporating. sigh I mean, it's convenient for
*me*, 'cos the language that's taking over is English - but it's not
good.
On the bright side, Welsh had been looking at extinction round about now
if they'd not done something about it back in the 1950s


On the other hand, is spending £18m on Gaelic television for the approx
70,000 Gaelic speakers in Scotland a good use of public money?


£18m is peanuts in the national budget. Loss of linguistic diversity is
one of the biggest cultural plagues of our time. I'd say it would
indeed be money well spent - and this is coming from a 100% Englishman
who only speaks English and isn't likely to learn any other languages.
I'd be happy for the money to come from the UK and not Scottish budget.

(there is the other problem that the language that's taking over is
degraded English. Have you any idea what the apparatus of the EU has
done to English? They have a special dialect of `Euro-English' which is
painful to read, but it's what they use for official everything when
written in English. There are moves afoot to create an `international
English' which has been modified to make it easier for speakers of other
languages. And that's even worse - at least the EU version just uses
awkward syntax and vocabulary designed to suit French people (AFAICT,
anyway) rather than messing it about too much.


I suspect that much EU stuff originates in French and is
machine-translated into English.


Actually, no - although the EU was originally set up pretty much
entirely using the French language and in strictest secrecy with as much
as possible being done under wraps and behind closed doors - even closed
to the delegates to the secret meetings that discussed what the founding
documents were going to contain when they were written!!!! Really.
(they had this programme on R4, y'see. Well, lots of 'em actually).

They discussed what to put in the documents, the minutes were taken, and
then the bloke in charge of the minutes and all documentation went away
and got the documents drawn up according to what his records said they'd
agreed on, and then returned to the delates with completed documents
which had to be agreed on in full with no modification. Yes, that
really is how it was all started.

It was founded in secrecy and obscurity with that influence coming from
one particular Roman Catholic - that should explain a lot. In his
defence, there wasn't any other way he was going to get the paperwork
drawn up and agreed to at all - nothing /sinister/ about it: he just
wanted to get the job done to make future wars in Europe impossible.
And good on him - but...

Anyway, in recent years the French have been getting very sniffy because
English has in fact taken over as the `standard lingo' in the EU,
sidelining French despite all the efforts and possibly perplexing the
Germans 'cos there are more native German speakers than native speakers
of other languages in the EU. Chirac threw a very French sulk one day
and stormed out of a meeting when a French businessman came right out
and said that English was the standard international language and we
were all going to just have to work with it.

Rowland.

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  #97  
Old October 29th 07, 07:55 PM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Eric Chomko[_2_]
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On Oct 26, 10:02 pm, (Rowland
McDonnell) wrote:
slunky wrote:
_/ Jane wrote \_
Oh Cin is well aware of the abusive Rowland, that's how I came to know him,
watching him talk "****" about Cin and I stuck up for her and of course I
became her bigot buddy after that.


That's what you get for being an American and therefore a terrorist.


sigh Terrorist *supporter* - but only if you are in favour of US
foreign policy.


Your elites tied to oil and banking is just like our elites. You
acting like we are worse than you is the proverbial pot calling the
kettle black.


Not all Yanks are ignorant ******* - I know that; almost all the Yanks
I've met in real life have been very decent people indeed when I've had
enough time in their company to suss them out. Then again, I've mostly
met the ones who have travelled abroad, only having visited the USA
once.


Where in the US did you visit? It says a lot about what you don't
know.

It's just that there is a lot of ignorance spouted by ignorant Yanks on
Usenet, and it needs commenting on.


And the ignorant Brits spouting on USENET are supposed to get a pass?



  #98  
Old October 29th 07, 07:56 PM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Eric Chomko[_2_]
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On Oct 26, 10:05 pm, slunky wrote:
_/ Rowland McDonnell wrote \_

It's just that there is a lot of ignorance spouted by ignorant Yanks on
Usenet, and it needs commenting on.


Is ignorant your second favorite word next to USA?


Give the guy a break. He has crop circles whereas we have the Grand
Canyon.



  #99  
Old October 30th 07, 02:31 AM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Jonathan
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"Rowland McDonnell" wrote in message
...
Jonathan wrote:

"Rowland McDonnell" wrote:

Us Brits know all about the bad **** *our* nation has done
over the years - we get taught it in school. *WE* don't shy away from
admitting it.



So what's it like to live in a police state?


I don't know: you tell me. Your nation is closer to that description
than is mine.



If you're from the UK, that's priceless. You do know every one of
your internet posts is kept by mi-5 for seven years, just in case?
You do know they also can read all of your e-mails with the
carnivore program? They can, and do word search every e-mail
that crosses your shores.

You do know that 'forgetting' your encryption password
is a high crime? And that all encryption legal in the UK
has a govt back door.

And even better, if I utter an illegal 'opinion' here, and
you respond to the post, you could be prosecuted
for it. Gosh!

Terrorism can be a perfectly acceptable tactic under
certain conditions.

Oops, If I were in the UK, I could go to jail for that statement.
Don't neglect to edit it out of your responce, if any, so you
don't become a felon. I'd hate to be the cause of your
inprisonment.


And now they're banning video games and music videos
the govt finds distasteful. Isn't that nice to have a govt
that decides .....FOR YOU.. what is good and wholeshome
and what you shouldn't experience.

And next year they plan on banning even anonymous
bloggers. Or even an author from reviewing his own
book...will be illegal in the UK. Thank goodness for
the govt saving us from such evils as bad opinions
violent games and sexy thoughts.

Maybe it's easier to list what is not illegal in the UK.
You have no freedom of speech. Come on, I dare you
just say something good about terrorism, just
to show you could if you wanted to.

You've been dared!




I spent a week in the DDR once. That wasn't a police state any more
than the modern UK is. I spent a week in the USA once. That's not a
police state either. I know you will dismiss this point as hate-filled
bigotry to save you responding to it, but the DDR had aspects of the
police state about it and *some* of them have been introduced to the USA
since 9/11 but are still very firmly illegal in the UK - the police and
spooks here keep asking for these extra powers, but Parliament keeps
telling them to stuff it.



Because the UK already has more powers than any other
western country wrt searching and wiretapping.




The DDR's secret police, the Stasi, used powers similar to some of those
granted to US police and intelligence services in the wake of 9/11.
Such powers would have been unthinkable in the USA before that date, but
it seems you lot are sleepwalking into an oppressive regime for the sake
of security.



Almost all of the new measures expire automatically over time.
Almost all of the new measures are childs-play next to what
the UK does routinely, and for decades.



Wasn't it one of the founding fathers of your nation who made the point
that anyone who gives up liberty in exchange for security - as your
nation has done since 9/11 - deserves neither? Yes, I think it was.



Anyone that can't change with circumstances is a fool.
Have any of your laws changed since 9/11? If so
I think you should add hypocrite to your resume.




Your criticism of America is biased.


Your criticism of my country is based on total ignorance. Your defence
of America is based on hatred and bigotry and ignorance.

And you possess no sense of humour.



Show me your humor, and I'll show you mine!



If there's something biased about my criticism, explain where the bias
is. All you've done is launch a hate-filled bigoted attack against me
personally which is based on nothing but your hatred for anyone who
dares to suggest that your nation is less than perfect.



Right, you started it.



If I have a bias in fact, you will be able to analyse my words and
demonstrate where that bias lies without descending to personal abuse.




Your lack of knowledge of how the laws differ between the US and
UK make your bias self evident.





So: if you are capable of not descending to personal abuse and can
indeed assemble a coherent factual argument, let's hear it.

But on current showing, your education has been so poor that you are
incapable of an intellectual feat of that nature. I predict that you
will merely hoot and gibber at me some more, like a chimp in a cage at a
zoo.



Now who is doing the childish taunting?



You see only the negative as you
obviously need something to hate


..

I think the USA is a brilliant idea and I'm all in favour of it.

I hate the ignorance and bigotry expressed by people like you.



You mean, you hate it when people disagree with your
opinions.



So what I do is throw back your ignorance and bigotry into your faces -
just turning around the things you lot say about other parts of the
world, but applying them to the USA.

It's called `taking the ****' where I come from. Intelligent people
respond in a good humoured way




So, a long rote list of generic insults qualifies as humor now
in the UK. And all this time I thought your best example of
high-brow humor was Benny Hill...silly me.



(although it might be very sharp good
humour). Humourless idiots respond to me by ignoring any points I make
and insulting and attacking me personally. The respond just like you,
complaining about me being `biased' (as if you are not!) and so on - but
they never seem to have any response to the actual arguments I raise
about the flaws of the USA. No response to that at all - it seems that
for all that you claim I'm biased, you don't actually have any reason
for saying that aside from having defined all criticism of the USA as
evidence of bias. You seem to have abandoned the founding ideals of the
USA - rationality and science - and replaced them with bigotry and
faith.




It's called patriotism over here. Some euro-snob offers a lame and
uneducated insult at my country, and I feel justified in a good
old fashioned bitch-slap. And listen to you cry and complain
like some ....oh nevermind. It wouldn't be polite to say.




And you lot don't half get cross. It seems that you're happy to dish
out ignorant ravings about other nations, but you get very very cross
indeed when people criticise your own nation.



I guess that depends on who is correct in their opinions.
Watching someone from the UK call the US repressive
is truly an Orwellian moment that shouldn't be allowed
to pass without letting others enjoy such a timeless
spectacle.


And you're utterly
incapable of addressing any concerns anyone has about your nation:
you've decided that the USA is perfect, and so anyone criticising your
nation must be attacked violently.



Ya, exactly, and what's wrong with that? This is supposed to be when
I remind you of how your country would be worshipping the swastika
....and loving it...today if not for us. But I won't, that wouldn't be nice.
Or true. You owe your freedom to Stalin, hence your nostalgic
affection for police states.


That sort of behaviour is why so
many people outside the USA are so critical of your compatriots: it's
utterly unreasonable, uncivilised, and very backwards behaviour.



You're calling an American uncivilized and backwards?
So I guess I shouldn't accuse you of originality.



But
you're too ignorant to understand that point, aren't you? You're just
not as good a human being as the USAians I've actually met in real life
- you're letting the side down, you are. You're a disgrace to your
country: not up to the standard that I have met in US citizens.




That's about the fourth time you'd said the same thing.
Are you senile? Because I'm not hard of hearing, I heard
you the first three times.





And it's interesting to focus on the fact that your type - and you *are*
a type, there's a lot of you about - never seem to have any argument
against what I say except to tell me that I'm a hate-filled bigot - and
all because I can see that there are things wrong with the way your
country is run and tell you about some of them.

You never have any counter to any points I raise - you just launch
personal attacks against me, exposing the shallowness of your intellect
and your moral bankruptcy for all to see. It's quite funny, watching
you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole without you even knowing
that you're doing it.

That's why I do it: I happen to think that the USA is a brilliant idea,
but it's broken and it's broken because of hate-filled ignorant bigots
like you. It's not the USA I hate: it's the ignorant bigotry of many of
its citizens that has permitted the USA to leave decent, civilised
values so far behind in recent years.

I've met many, many people from the USA and even in the USA the one time
I visited. Every US citizen I've ever spent any significant time
talking to has turned out to be a decent, educated, cultivated,
intelligent, well-informed reasonable human being who was a pleasure to
converse with - in glaring contrast to *YOU* they were all very nice
people.

People like you are the reason the USA is broken.

Hate-filled ignorant bigots like you refuse to address any criticism of
your nation: you defend all actions of the USA as right and proper, and
you attack anyone criticising the USA as a hated-filled bigot.

That attitude is what is known as `bigotry'.

You never admit that your nation is imperfect - and so, of course, your
nation continues with bad government making bad decisions, messsing up
your nation and others.

If you were at all rational, you would see that much criticism of the
USA is fully justified - and then you'd do something about it and get
the USA working properly.

But not, you're an ignorant bigot, you defend the USA regardless, and -
well, I have a book here by Robert Heinlein: a patriotic American who,
unlike you, volunteered for military service and served his country
bravely until illness forced him to retire from the profession he had
chosen to follow: a military officer defending his nation. I'd shake
his hand - but I'd spit in your face.

Expanded Universe is the book - take a read. Much of my criticism of
the USA is simply repeating what Heinlein explained to me. I get my
information about what's wrong with the USA from loyal, patriotic
Americans like him in many cases - not traitors to its founding
principles like *you* and your `friends'.

Hated-filled bigot - is that who you think Heinlein was, eh?

He explained that was *certain* that the USA could never ever start a
war against another nation. But your nation, the USA, has in fact gone
off the rails so far since Heinlein's death that is *HAS* done so -
invaded Iraq!

But you don't see any problem with that, do you?



Whew...even I lost count of all the personal insults above.
I can barely add up just the lines. And I'm a math major!


Well, since I stated my opinion that you "need something
to hate" you have written ...80....eighty... lines of insults.
I would say that I've scored a homerun (goal) in terms of
.....hitting a nerve. A very sore nerve considering the incredibly
long, repetitive and obvious littany of standard insults
that resulted from that one little observation.

I'm now convinced you do need something to hate.
Should I bill you for this service???



There is only one way to knock America
down to size, to diminish our influence
and power. The only way is for other countries
to become free market democracies.


There are no free markets in the world, and the only democractic nation
in the world is Switzerland. The USA is one of the least democratic
`democratic' nations going - although the UK is even less democratic
(it's quite funny: the UK, `mother of all parliaments', `home of
democracy' - but we don't have democracy!). Democracy is denied almost
everyone in the world.

Also: all markets are heavily regulated and utterly un-free; hence, for
example, recent WTO sanctions against the USA for failing to scrap its
illegal farm subsidies which are - along with other similar subsidies
elsewhere in the world - the cause of much famine and hardship in Africa
and the developing world generally.

So: it might well be that democracy and free markets are a good idea.
But we don't have 'em and never have had.




And when did I claim our form of free market democracy was
perfect?


The USA has some of the least
free markets in the `developed' world,



That's why our trade deficit is in the tens of billions a month.
Because of our restrictions on trade....pahlease...at least
start an argument you have a chance of winning.
Are you a masochist?




You need to learn how the world works. And get yourself a sense of
humour and a sense of perspective. And learn how to stop hating -




Now that was precious.....NOT



you've got far too much hatred inside you against `outsiders', haven't
you? It's one of the signs of your bigotry that I mentioned.



.....twelve times at least....yawn!


Face it, you unzipped your fly for all to see with such an incredibly
long-winded and lame response to one simple observation.


I'm up 15-love, your serve.


s












[snip]

Rowland.

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  #100  
Old November 29th 07, 03:10 AM posted to alt.support.social-phobia,alt.support.depression,uk.people.support.depression,sci.space.policy
Jonathan
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"Rowland McDonnell" wrote in message
...

Us Brits know all about the bad **** *our* nation has done
over the years - we get taught it in school. *WE* don't shy away from
admitting it.



So what's it like to live in a police state?

Your criticism of America is biased.
You see only the negative as you
obviously need something to hate.

There is only one way to knock America
down to size, to diminish our influence
and power. The only way is for other countries
to become free market democracies.

Or...the only way to beat us, is to become
...just..like..us. And when that happens those
countries will no longer be adversaries, but
fast friends and partners.

That simple fact must bother you no end.

America, as one of the most diverse and open
countries, is a small scale example
of what the world is to become.

There is indeed an American in everyone
just waiting to get out. Even you~






Do you lot get taught about that sort of thing? About, for example, how
your nation subjected the previous inhabitants to genocide?

Rowland.

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