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Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve - Extraterrestrial Knowledge



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 17th 21, 05:35 AM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
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Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve -Extraterrestrial Knowledge

On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 10:53:57 AM UTC-7, wrote:

What is Wilhelm "Olbers s" Paradox?
Wilhelm Olbers [1758-1840]. #proposed what is known as Olbers' paradox, which re
lates to
the problem of why the sky is dark at night. If the universe is endless and
uniformly populated with luminous stars, then every line of sight must
eventually terminate at the surface of a star.
-- www.britannica.com/science/Olbers-paradox


You do know, don't you, that Olber's Paradox has been explained satisfactorily to be incorrect... right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olbers...tic%20universe.

"The darkness of the night sky is one of the pieces of evidence for a dynamic universe, such as the Big Bang model. That model explains the observed non-uniformity of brightness by invoking spacetime's expansion, which lengthens the light originating from the Big Bang to microwave levels via a process known as redshift; this microwave radiation background has wavelengths much longer than those of visible light, and so appears dark to the naked eye."
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  #32  
Old April 17th 21, 05:46 AM posted to alt.astronomy
R Kym Horsell[_2_]
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Posts: 111
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve - Extraterrestrial Knowledge

palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 10:53:57 AM UTC-7, wrote:

What is Wilhelm "Olbers s" Paradox?
Wilhelm Olbers [1758-1840]. #proposed what is known as Olbers' paradox, which re
lates to
the problem of why the sky is dark at night. If the universe is endless and
uniformly populated with luminous stars, then every line of sight must
eventually terminate at the surface of a star.
-- www.britannica.com/science/Olbers-paradox


You do know, don't you, that Olber's Paradox has been explained satisfactorily to be incorrect... right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olbers...tic%20universe.

"The darkness of the night sky is one of the pieces of evidence for a dynamic universe, such as the Big Bang model. That model explains the observed non-uniformity of brightness by invoking spacetime's expansion, which lengthens the light originating from the Big Bang to microwave levels via a process known as redshift; this microwave radiation background has wavelengths much longer than those of visible light, and so appears dark to the naked eye."



So you're another one that claims the universe in infinte.
I'll put you down.

--
You know you're a hillbilly if #43:
You believe an inverse square attenuation of point sources
multiplied by infinity is zero.
  #33  
Old April 18th 21, 05:24 AM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve -Extraterrestrial Knowledge

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 9:46:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:

So you're another one that claims the universe in infinte.
I'll put you down.


I have no idea if the universe is infinite or not. All I said is that Olber's Paradox has been refuted.

Do you have evidence that the universe is not infinite? Let's see it.

BTW, spellchecker is your friend. Use it.
  #34  
Old April 18th 21, 06:16 AM posted to alt.astronomy
R Kym Horsell[_2_]
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Posts: 111
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve - Extraterrestrial Knowledge

palsing wrote:
On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 9:46:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:

So you're another one that claims the universe in infinte.
I'll put you down.


I have no idea if the universe is infinite or not. All I said is that Olber's Paradox has been refuted.


A paradox is not refuted. It is a paradox and "wrong" to start with.
A paradox is RESOLVED to show why it is wrong.

It seems you have not read anything I wrote in the past 3m
or of you did did not understand a word.

In an argument with a Hillbilly who claims the universe it
"obviously" infinite in time and space why would anyone bring
up Olbers Paradox?

Obviously to refute the claims the universe is infinite.

And equally obviously anyone that has been banging on about
the universe starting with a big bang ~13 bn years back is
quite aware how Olber's paradox was supposedly "recently refuted".

You are just making a fool of yourself.

--
, 17 Apr 2021]
You know you're a hillbilly if #45:
You didn't believe a paradox was "recently proved incorrect".
  #35  
Old April 18th 21, 02:26 PM posted to alt.astronomy
[email protected]
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Posts: 537
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve - Extraterrestrial Knowledge

You're=20the=20fool.

The=20universe=20is=20obviously=20infinite=20in=20 space=20and=20ti=
me.

If=20not,=20then=20just=20show=20us=20a=20limit=20 or=20boundary.=
=20Of=20course=20you=20can't=20because=20there=20a re=20none.


  #36  
Old April 18th 21, 04:00 PM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,068
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve -Extraterrestrial Knowledge

On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 10:16:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
palsing wrote:
On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 9:46:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:

So you're another one that claims the universe in infinte.
I'll put you down.


I have no idea if the universe is infinite or not. All I said is that Olber's Paradox has been refuted.

A paradox is not refuted. It is a paradox and "wrong" to start with.
A paradox is RESOLVED to show why it is wrong.

It seems you have not read anything I wrote in the past 3m
or of you did did not understand a word.

In an argument with a Hillbilly who claims the universe it
"obviously" infinite in time and space why would anyone bring
up Olbers Paradox?

Obviously to refute the claims the universe is infinite.

And equally obviously anyone that has been banging on about
the universe starting with a big bang ~13 bn years back is
quite aware how Olber's paradox was supposedly "recently refuted".

You are just making a fool of yourself.

--
, 17 Apr 2021]
You know you're a hillbilly if #45:
You didn't believe a paradox was "recently proved incorrect".


So, you are unable to provide evidence for your claim that the universe is not infinite. Got it.
  #37  
Old April 18th 21, 04:07 PM posted to alt.astronomy
R Kym Horsell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve - Extraterrestrial Knowledge

palsing wrote:
On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 10:16:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
palsing wrote:
On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 9:46:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:

So you're another one that claims the universe in infinte.
I'll put you down.

I have no idea if the universe is infinite or not. All I said is that Olber's Paradox has been refuted.

A paradox is not refuted. It is a paradox and "wrong" to start with.
A paradox is RESOLVED to show why it is wrong.

It seems you have not read anything I wrote in the past 3m
or of you did did not understand a word.

In an argument with a Hillbilly who claims the universe it
"obviously" infinite in time and space why would anyone bring
up Olbers Paradox?
Obviously to refute the claims the universe is infinite.
And equally obviously anyone that has been banging on about
the universe starting with a big bang ~13 bn years back is
quite aware how Olber's paradox was supposedly "recently refuted".
You are just making a fool of yourself.
--
, 17 Apr 2021]
You know you're a hillbilly if #45:
You didn't believe a paradox was "recently proved incorrect".

So, you are unable to provide evidence for your claim that the universe is not infinite. Got it.


This from someone that reverses if/then. Lame.

Olber posits an "if X then Y". That was maybe the last time X included
an "open and shut" assumption of an infinite universe. If X is false
then nothing is said about Y. If Y is true it shows nothing about X --
that's a fallacy of inverted-if.

The "light" from the CMB anyway can't be mistaken for the "light" in
Olbers Paradox. The CMB doesn't come from stars scatted between here
and the far distance -- it comes from a dark wall about 50 GY distant.
OP wants more than just any old kind of radiation -- it talks about
light from an approx uniform distribution of stars. Given science in
the mid 18th cent didn't recognize galaxies or even meteorites OP
represents a simplified but reasonable world view.

The simple math is if the universe is infinite then an inverse square
law don't save you -- the stars visible at 1000 LY in a patch of sky
shines with the same amount of light as the same size patch of stars
2000 LY away, 1 mn LY away, 1 bn LY away, etc. The number of stars at
distance R scales as R^2 and that cancels out the inverse square of
the individual point sources. A patch of sky is not a point source.
You integrate up the radiation directed your way from distance 0 to
infinity (don't forget to allow for lensing of light around nearer
stars -- they don't end up blocking totally any starlight coming from
behind) and you get a big number even from a small patch of sky, let
alone the whole celestial sphere.(*)

Infinite universes have other logical problems. These problems don't
guarantee an infinite universe doesn't exist. It just makes it unlikely.

We see out to 50 GLY which we calculate takes us about 13 GY into the
past. Beyond the blank wall we can see out there is calculated to be
another 1 GY worth of space -- the Dark Age -- before you reach the
tiny region that was the big bang. How much space in LY is back there
is up for debate. Considering the BB stretched the space we can see
in front "only" about 4-fold it's not likely an infinite amount.

[other stuff about infinities]

(*) My calc gets 13,000 sun's worth of light hitting Earth 24/7.
About 13 MW/m2. With that kind of pressure it might be impossible
for dust clouds or planets to form.

  #38  
Old April 19th 21, 03:13 AM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,068
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve -Extraterrestrial Knowledge

On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 8:07:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
palsing wrote:
On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 10:16:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
palsing wrote:
On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 9:46:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:

So you're another one that claims the universe in infinte.
I'll put you down.

I have no idea if the universe is infinite or not. All I said is that Olber's Paradox has been refuted.
A paradox is not refuted. It is a paradox and "wrong" to start with.
A paradox is RESOLVED to show why it is wrong.

It seems you have not read anything I wrote in the past 3m
or of you did did not understand a word.

In an argument with a Hillbilly who claims the universe it
"obviously" infinite in time and space why would anyone bring
up Olbers Paradox?
Obviously to refute the claims the universe is infinite.
And equally obviously anyone that has been banging on about
the universe starting with a big bang ~13 bn years back is
quite aware how Olber's paradox was supposedly "recently refuted".
You are just making a fool of yourself.
--
, 17 Apr 2021]
You know you're a hillbilly if #45:
You didn't believe a paradox was "recently proved incorrect".

So, you are unable to provide evidence for your claim that the universe is not infinite. Got it.

This from someone that reverses if/then. Lame.

Olber posits an "if X then Y". That was maybe the last time X included
an "open and shut" assumption of an infinite universe. If X is false
then nothing is said about Y. If Y is true it shows nothing about X --
that's a fallacy of inverted-if.

The "light" from the CMB anyway can't be mistaken for the "light" in
Olbers Paradox. The CMB doesn't come from stars scatted between here
and the far distance -- it comes from a dark wall about 50 GY distant.
OP wants more than just any old kind of radiation -- it talks about
light from an approx uniform distribution of stars. Given science in
the mid 18th cent didn't recognize galaxies or even meteorites OP
represents a simplified but reasonable world view.

The simple math is if the universe is infinite then an inverse square
law don't save you -- the stars visible at 1000 LY in a patch of sky
shines with the same amount of light as the same size patch of stars
2000 LY away, 1 mn LY away, 1 bn LY away, etc. The number of stars at
distance R scales as R^2 and that cancels out the inverse square of
the individual point sources. A patch of sky is not a point source.
You integrate up the radiation directed your way from distance 0 to
infinity (don't forget to allow for lensing of light around nearer
stars -- they don't end up blocking totally any starlight coming from
behind) and you get a big number even from a small patch of sky, let
alone the whole celestial sphere.(*)

Infinite universes have other logical problems. These problems don't
guarantee an infinite universe doesn't exist. It just makes it unlikely.

We see out to 50 GLY which we calculate takes us about 13 GY into the
past. Beyond the blank wall we can see out there is calculated to be
another 1 GY worth of space -- the Dark Age -- before you reach the
tiny region that was the big bang. How much space in LY is back there
is up for debate. Considering the BB stretched the space we can see
in front "only" about 4-fold it's not likely an infinite amount.

[other stuff about infinities]

(*) My calc gets 13,000 sun's worth of light hitting Earth 24/7.
About 13 MW/m2. With that kind of pressure it might be impossible
for dust clouds or planets to form.


You would be wise to look up "interstellar reddening", and also the ramifications of "redshift". Your calculations are worthless if they don't take these phenomena into account.
  #39  
Old April 19th 21, 03:29 AM posted to alt.astronomy
R Kym Horsell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default Pyramids-How Were They Built and What Do They Serve - Extraterrestrial Knowledge

palsing wrote:
On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 8:07:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
palsing wrote:

....

Let's review again what if/then means.

If A then B means:
if A is true then B must be true.
If A is false then B may or may not be true.
If B is true then is says nothing about A.
If B is false then A must be false.

We can generate the contra-positive from the above by negating and
reversing A and B. IOW "if A then B" is logically the same as "if not
B then not A".

A classical fallacy is to "reverse the if" and believe that "if A then
B" means the same as "if B then A".

Review done.

Olber's Paradox is roughly
- We think the universe is infinite
- If the universe is infinite then we should see stars/light in all directions
- We do not see stars in all directions

This does not mean if we see light in all directions it implies
anything. If A "the universe is infinite" is false OP says nothing
about whether we expect to see light in all directions or not.

The fact that the apparent finitude of the universe -- we can see 50
GLY out to the end of the "Dark Age" around 13 GY ago -- resolves OP
because it simply refutes the first point. (You seem to have started
out citing this yourself, but then decided you don't believe it.
Classic hillbilly .
The fact we see a CMB from all directions is just an ironical not logical
point. The belief in an infinite universe is old and problematic.

Infinity is problematic because many clues tell us the universe -- at
least the part of "creation" with the set of properties that allow
physics and life as we know it to operate -- is finite. It's been
estimated a m3 of space can be in 10^(10^70) possible configurations
of matter and energy. Not an infinite number of ways.

So an infinite universe must repeat the same m3 of space an infinite
number of times. Ditto km3. Or any size. So there must be an infinite
number of Earths that look identical to Earth at this second.
And this second. And this second. But there are also an infinitude
that look as it did in the 18th century. Or any century. Or as depicted
in many books of fiction. Any realistic possibility. An infinite number
of times.

A much smaller i.e. finite universe could incorporate all possible
configurations of matter & energy upto a certain size exactly once.
Like a 3d or 4d construction similar to Champernowne's Number (one of the
simplest "normal numbers" that contains every possible sequence of digits).

Nutty stuff.

So is saying the universe is "obviously infinite".

Or accepting the universe should be pumping out MWs of star power
over earth 24/7.

 




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