Sun's Hot Surface: Influence of Jupiter on our Sun~~~

I tried submitting to a Volcanology journal but they wanted nothing to
do with me. Thought that this was kind of funny since the source of
magma has never been discovered. I think I need to rewrite a better
paper and submit again. It has hard explaining this theory to
astronomers. Sometimes I feel if I die no one will ever publish this.
I really think I have discovered something. Maybe you could help me.
Want to write a 20 page paper?

Jon Riley
(no spam)

"granite stone" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Laury,
| Actually you got me thinking. Is the movement of Jupiter
| the same energy as the heat from the Sun?

Well, your idea got me thinking and I thought I'd work out how much heat
could be generated by the tidal effects you suggest.

I'm not sure how best to answer your question, though. The reason is
that my previous answer provided that answer, but your knowledge of
physics is not enough to allow you see the implications.

I'm sure you know that if you brake a car, the disks get hot because the
energy of the car's motion is being turned to heat energy.

One of the fundamentals foundations of physics is that energy is neither
created nor destroyed. If the Sun is radiating energy, something is
losing energy. Your idea is that Jupiter's tidal forces are heating the
sun. As a consequence, Jupiter and/or the Sun must be losing energy. I
looked at Jupiter's kinetic energy (energy of motion) and worked out how
long it would last if it was being converted into heating the Sun. As
with a car braking, so Jupiter would be slowed down.

What the figures showed was that, if all the energy stored in Jupiter's
motion were turned to heat in the Sun, it would allow the Sun to shine
at it's current level for another 30 years. A that time, Jupiter would
have been slowed to a stop, and the sun would stop shining.

I simplified it a bit because I was interested in seeing whether the
energy would last for days, years or millennia. I didn't have a clue
when I started. The answer was 30 years, but that's a very very rough
figure. But you can be fairly sure that it's between 3 and 300 years.

Incidentally, I used the centimetre-gram-second system for my
calculations which rather old-fashioned. In that system, energy is
measured in ergs, an erg being about as much energy as a flea jump.

I hope that helps.
--
.-. Laury
(o o)
{\0/}

"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
| It is not difficult to calculate what would happen to Jupiter's orbit
if
| it were powering the Sun.


Out of interest, I did that calculation in another post here, and
estimated Jupiter would slow to a stop in about 30 years if all its
orbital kinetic energy were converted to 'sunlight'. I'd welcome it if
you could tell me of any glaring errors. I rounded everything to one
figure as I was intersted in seeing the order of magnitude.
--
Laury

"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
| By my calculation, Jupiter's total KE is equal to the total energy
| output of the Sun for 13 years. Not very impressive in the grand
scheme
| of a solar system that is nearly 5 billion years old.

Aha! My order of magnitude figure was 30 years including energy of
rotation of the Sun, with the Sun contributing 1/6th. Thanks.

--
Laury

Good luck Jon.

--
John Carruthers
http://mysite.freeserve.com/jc_atm/
"granite stone" wrote in message
oups.com...
I tried submitting to a Volcanology journal but they wanted nothing to
do with me. Thought that this was kind of funny since the source of
magma has never been discovered. I think I need to rewrite a better
paper and submit again. It has hard explaining this theory to
astronomers. Sometimes I feel if I die no one will ever publish this.
I really think I have discovered something. Maybe you could help me.
Want to write a 20 page paper?

Jon Riley
(no spam)

granite stone wrote:
Good morning......Wow. Someone instead of telling me I am a troll is
asking where I copied this from. Still an insult but I have moved out
of the gutter to the sidewalk.

Trolls live under bridges, I believe .. not in gutters.

But you perhaps are not a troll .. merely uninformed and uninformable.

THis is the place to be for
new ideas but the ridiculing is so much!


This forum (saa) is exactly NOT the place for these ideas. There are
forums for such discussions, but this is not one of them .. as an
earlier poster pointed out with a detailed listing of the charter of
this forum. The point is not your ideas (as specious as they are) but
whether this is the place to inflict them on readers: It is NOT!

If you insist on discussing off topic material, you are properly a troll
and should be under a bridge

Phil

In message , Chris L
Peterson writes
On 25 Feb 2006 06:14:46 -0800, "granite stone"
wrote:

I say this and ask where does the energy of the Moon and the tides come
from? No one has answered this. It would not be kinetic energy.


By my calculation, Jupiter's total KE is equal to the total energy
output of the Sun for 13 years. Not very impressive in the grand scheme
of a solar system that is nearly 5 billion years old.

Interesting :-) So it takes the total output of the sun for years to
affect Jupiter.
But don't forget that we already know what this little troll's response
will be when it gets bored.
Sci.astro.amateur trimmed.

On 25 Feb 2006 08:59:15 -0800, "granite stone"
wrote:

I read all your posts. Well, I think the energy of Jupiter's orbit is
very large. (by the way, I have a college physics course behind me)
How can you work out the energy of the orbit as being low? Jupiter is
very large. In comparison to Saturn, 3 times bigger. The energy to
form Jupiter and put it into place, if that is what happened, was
enormous. I think the energy of the obit of Jupiter is very large.

The kinetic energy of Jupiter's orbital motion is

0.5 * 1.9e27 kg * 13.1 km/s * 13.1 km/s = 1.6e35 joules

By human standards, that's a lot of energy. But the Sun's output is
3.8e26 joules/s. So how long could Jupiter's orbital kinetic energy
power the Sun?

Jupiter also has some rotational kinetic energy. This is difficult to
calculate precisely because of all the differential rotation going on in
Jupiter, but if you simply take the planet to be a solid sphere you'll
get a reasonable estimate. Since you've got a college physics course
behind you, you shouldn't have any problem with this calculation (hint:
it is a little less than the orbital kinetic energy).

Add the two energy sources together. How long could Jupiter's total
kinetic energy power the Sun? (Hint: less than your age assuming you've
attended college.)


Also, the Moon has been giving Earth a tide for millions of years.
Please explain how much energy is in our moon's orbit.

_You_ can repeat the above calculations for the Moon. BTW, over millions
of years both the length of a day and the distance to the Moon have
changed considerably, due to the transfer of energy between the two
bodies.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

JRS: In article ,
dated Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:38:10 remote, seen in news:uk.sci.astronomy,
Laury posted :
"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
.. .
| It is not difficult to calculate what would happen to Jupiter's orbit
if
| it were powering the Sun.


Out of interest, I did that calculation in another post here, and
estimated Jupiter would slow to a stop in about 30 years if all its
orbital kinetic energy were converted to 'sunlight'. I'd welcome it if
you could tell me of any glaring errors. I rounded everything to one
figure as I was intersted in seeing the order of magnitude.

Javascript code, constants from oldish book, evaluated in js-quick.htm :

Mj = 1900e24 // kg
Vj = 2 * Math.PI * 777.7e9 // m
/ (12 * 365 * 86400) // s
Ej = 0.5 * Mj * Vj*Vj // J

Es = 4e9 // kg photons /sec
c = 3e8 // m/s
Es = Es * c*c

Years = Ej / Es / (86400*365)

Evaluates to 13.95


--
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JRS: In article .com
, dated Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:59:15 remote, seen in news:uk.sci.astronomy,
granite stone posted :
I read all your posts. Well, I think the energy of Jupiter's orbit is
very large. (by the way, I have a college physics course behind me)

That reminds me of a saying, possibly apocryphal, of Winston Churchill.

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
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