Shutting down the U.S.A

"Next year's NASA budget is poised to force premature cancellation of
either Curiosity or Cassini -- the agency's flagship missions. Funding
decisions get made behind closed doors, but projected figures reduce
Cassini's budget in 2014 by almost half, and half again in 2015, making
it impossible to fly. Even funding for analyzing data will be
"restructured," according to NASA."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/14/op...ion/index.html

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:56:46 PM UTC-5, jacob navia wrote:
"Next year's NASA budget is poised to force premature cancellation of

either Curiosity or Cassini -- the agency's flagship missions. Funding

decisions get made behind closed doors, but projected figures reduce

Cassini's budget in 2014 by almost half, and half again in 2015, making

it impossible to fly. Even funding for analyzing data will be

"restructured," according to NASA."



http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/14/op...ion/index.html

The decision to go off the gold standard, avoid the development of high temperature nuclear reactors, ending project NERVA and ROVER, and turning the far reaching New Frontier into a meaningless moon program combined with the decision to side track the development of coal conversion technology to make synthetic fuels at $8 per barrel, and outsource our industry and raw materials to thers, was when the decision was made to shut down America. We're just seeing the logical end point.

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:22:19 PM UTC-8, William Mook wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:56:46 PM UTC-5, jacob navia wrote:

"Next year's NASA budget is poised to force premature cancellation of



either Curiosity or Cassini -- the agency's flagship missions. Funding



decisions get made behind closed doors, but projected figures reduce



Cassini's budget in 2014 by almost half, and half again in 2015, making



it impossible to fly. Even funding for analyzing data will be



"restructured," according to NASA."







http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/14/op...on/index..html



The decision to go off the gold standard, avoid the development of high temperature nuclear reactors, ending project NERVA and ROVER, and turning the far reaching New Frontier into a meaningless moon program combined with the decision to side track the development of coal conversion technology to make synthetic fuels at $8 per barrel, and outsource our industry and raw materials to thers, was when the decision was made to shut down America. We're just seeing the logical end point.

There were plenty of "panics" back in the era of the gold standard. Nuclear
tech is by its nature pretty nasty. Though liquid thorium reactor seem
to have promise provided they are at ground zero of nuke attack.
The best coal is coal left in the ground.

Don't get me wrong, I'd willing to use nuclear tech for propulsion.

Shipping the production jobs offshore was a first order mistake.
Resources and the means of production are the true wealth of
a nation in Ready Freddy sense.

Koch's, Krupps and class are the cause and the end point, in their
point of view in this and other eras. Will it work out for them
maybe. Will they work their will on the greater society to
an extent for sure.

Don't dance with Franz Von Poppen and the boys from Ruhr ........Trig

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:53:19 PM UTC-8, Wrong Stuff wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:22:19 PM UTC-8, William Mook wrote:

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:56:46 PM UTC-5, jacob navia wrote:



"Next year's NASA budget is poised to force premature cancellation of







either Curiosity or Cassini -- the agency's flagship missions. Funding







decisions get made behind closed doors, but projected figures reduce







Cassini's budget in 2014 by almost half, and half again in 2015, making







it impossible to fly. Even funding for analyzing data will be







"restructured," according to NASA."















http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/14/op...ion/index.html







The decision to go off the gold standard, avoid the development of high temperature nuclear reactors, ending project NERVA and ROVER, and turning the far reaching New Frontier into a meaningless moon program combined with the decision to side track the development of coal conversion technology to make synthetic fuels at $8 per barrel, and outsource our industry and raw materials to thers, was when the decision was made to shut down America. We're just seeing the logical end point.



There were plenty of "panics" back in the era of the gold standard. Nuclear

tech is by its nature pretty nasty. Though liquid thorium reactor seem

to have promise provided they are at ground zero of nuke attack.

I meant if the reactor wasn't at ground zero but in a sense it
works other way around. Maybe a Austrian/Freudian slip?


The best coal is coal left in the ground.



Don't get me wrong, I'd willing to use nuclear tech for propulsion.



Shipping the production jobs offshore was a first order mistake.

Resources and the means of production are the true wealth of

a nation in Ready Freddy sense.



Koch's, Krupps and class are the cause and the end point, in their

point of view in this and other eras. Will it work out for them

maybe. Will they work their will on the greater society to

an extent for sure.



Don't dance with Franz Von Poppen and the boys from Ruhr ........Trig

Wrong Stuff wrote, "There were plenty of "panics" back in the era of the gold standard."

William replies,"That has nothing to do with the underlying value of the dollar, which is what we're talking about when we say we can't afford stuff like keeping our robots going on Mars, let alone build a city there."


Wrong Stuff wrote, "Nuclear tech is by its nature pretty nasty."

William replies, "That depends on the details."

Wrong Stuff wrote, "Though liquid thorium reactor seem to have promise"

William replies, "Point proven... There are better technologies that have been suppressed. 6_Lithium and 2_Hydrogen support Jetter Cycle fusion which can be used with 9_Beryllium to support a clean bulk reactor like Rossi's E-Cat Fusion, or inertial confinement rapid detonation, for propulsive applications. We produce 3,000 metric tons of 6_Lithium per year at present. Each ton of 6_Lithium converted in a Jetter Cycle to heat releases the equivalent of 8.62 million tons of coal. 3,000 tons of 6_Lithium properly used in a fusion generator releases the equivalent of 25.9 billion tons of coal per year."

Wrong Stuff wrote, "The best coal is coal left in the ground."

William replies, "That depends on the details too. Its not like we're not using coal. Humanity burns 5 billion tons of coal per year to generate 53% of our electrical energy and spends $300 billion per year for that fuel. Humanity also burns 30 billion barrels of crude oil per year and spends $3,000 billion per year for that fuel. Now, 5 billion tons of coal releases 140 billion billion joules of energy. Now, using Jetter Cycle fusion this is all replaced by using 580 tons of 6_Lithium in a Jetter Cycle fusion reactor. Adding 750 million tons of hydrogen which requires 900 metric tons of 6_Lithium to produce the energy to break 6.75 billion tons of water down to hydrogen and oxygen. That 750 million tons of hydrogen when combined with 5 billion tons of coal via direct hydrogenation of the Bergius process produces 42.15 billion barrels of crude oil per year at a cost of $8 per barrel - $337 billion. Doing this will reduce carbon emissions, and kill the oil companies while freeing up trillions of dollars per year for our economy, taking it out of oil company pockets. Further, extracting oil from deep sea and remote locations is far more ecologically harmful than extracting coal from Wyoming and Montana. Finally, the profits earned from the sale of synfuels are then used to increase Jetter Cycle fusion applications over time - eliminating the use of coal as fuel over time."

Wrong Stuff, "Don't get me wrong, I'd willing to use nuclear tech for propulsion."

William Replies, "Jetter Cycle fusion when implemented through inertial confinement fusion produces exhaust speeds of 22,000 km/sec of easily directed of alpha particles. This is vastly higher than anything else we've got going on. Check it out,

Solid Rocket: 1.8 km/sec
Chemical Rocket: 2.8 km/sec
Cryogenic Rocket: 4.2 km/sec
Solid Core Nuclear: 8.5 km/sec
Orion Nuclear Pulse: 20.0 km/sec
Laser Pulse: 30.0 km/sec
Ion Rocket: 35.0 km/sec
Fusion Pulse: 22,000.0 km/sec
Photon Rocket: 300,000.0 km/sec

The Space Shuttle used Solid Rocket SRBs at lift off, and a cryogen LOX/LH2 mix in the External Tank, and hypergolic chemical rockets for ACS and orbital maneuvering.

The Apollo system used Chemical rocket, LOX/RP1 for the first stage, cryogen LOX/LH2 for the second and third stage, hypergolic chemical rockets for ACS, SM, and LEM operations.

This size the system and sized the payloads and set achievable mission times and parameters.

The Orioneers, that wanted to use shaped nuclear charges to propel payloads across the solar system. They could have done it too! To take a payload to the moon and back requires a delta vee of at least 16.5 km/sec. Using rockets with 4.3 km/sec exhaust speeds and dividing the task up into four stages of 4.125 km/sec each means that 617% of the weight of each stage is propellant. Allocating 15.3% to each stage for inert mass of the stage itself, means that 20.0% is left for payload. So, each stage is 5x the weight of the payload it carries. With four stages that is 5^4 = 625 kg, lbs, or tons, is needed for each kg, lb or ton taken through the 16.5 km/sec delta vee. Doing this same mission with an Orion type rocket requires only one stage that is 56.2% propellant. With 23.8% inert structure this leaves the same 20% payload, but with only one stage only 5x the weight is needed at lift off. Logistically one stage also means you get your vehicle back to reuse and don't have stages spread all over the show. You get 31.25x the effect for your money.

Now check out the fusion rocket! Only 750 grams of Lithium-6 Deuteride is needed to propel one metric ton to the moon and back, with the 16.5 km/sec delta vee! Boosting at constant gee from Earth and back again, escaping both the lunar gravity and terrestrial gravity, requires 292.3 km/sec delta vee. This reduces the flight time from 8 days to 8 hours! Its impossible to do with either Orion or Chemical rockets. Easy to do with Fusion rockets and Photon rockets. Only 13.2 kg of Lithium-6 Deuteride per ton of payload even under this condition!

This makes a spaceship in every garage a reality and is what we should be working on!"

Wrong Stuff writes, "Shipping the production jobs offshore was a first order mistake."

William Replies, "Yes! The point is all people should have short supply chains that they understand and control, not long supply chains controlled by others with massive hidden costs."

Wrong Stuff writes, "Resources and the means of production are the true wealth of a nation..."

William Replies, "Yes! It all starts with energy and information and an individual's control of that. Ultimately we should have 3D print technology with compact fusion power that's capable of processing rock and garbage to a hot plasma that is recombined to produce anything we wish on demand without excessive supply chains. Swarming robot technologies to assemble these components into more sophisticated forms, including transport, homes, food, clothing, drugs, all made locally - from designs downloaded over the internet."

nASA could cut costs dramatically by buying everything from china... after all the chinese have taken most of our manufacturing jobs, and just landed a rover on the moon.

Le 15/12/2013 18:20, bob haller a écrit :
nASA could cut costs dramatically by buying everything from china...

after all the chinese have taken most of our manufacturing jobs, and
just landed a rover on the moon.


YES!

You are right.

RIIIIIIIGHT!

NASA?

Replace it by the chinese spatial agency. Much cheaper (zero dollars
spent). Why buy anything? Just let the chinese do that alone!

Le 15/12/2013 02:56, jacob navia a écrit :
"Next year's NASA budget is poised to force premature cancellation of
either Curiosity or Cassini -- the agency's flagship missions. Funding
decisions get made behind closed doors, but projected figures reduce
Cassini's budget in 2014 by almost half, and half again in 2015, making
it impossible to fly. Even funding for analyzing data will be
"restructured," according to NASA."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/14/op...ion/index.html



In addition:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...ssini-science/