|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Good comments, well said. "John Doe" wrote in message ... And with all the years in service, you'd think Boeing would have predicted that a spark due to frayed wiring could cause a fuel tank to explode in a 747 and prevent TWA800. Many unpredictable things do happen over time. Systems that use liquids in 0g cannot really be tested on earth. They are tested and debugged while in orbit. And as time goes on, they discover new problems that crop up. That is what the space station is REALLY all about. Not research on how to grow crystals, but how to make and maintain/fix systems that are in long term use. They'll find the solution to elektron, and this event will contribute to the elektron maintenance manual, MTBF statistics and resupply requirements over the long term. And if we had to go to mars today, I'd trust Elektron far more than some newfangled USA (or other country) O2 generator that has not been tested in space yet. There have been enough failures of elektron to have a good idea of how much and what maintenance will be required over a long period. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Jim Oberg wrote:
Good comments, well said. Jim, OM is going to have your ass for quoting the whole article just to add that you agree! Sam |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
"John Doe" wrote in message ... "Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote: And of course compare, how many years have the Russians been working on Elektron in orbit vs. the American system. You'd think my now they'd have a bit more bugs worked out. And with all the years in service, you'd think Boeing would have predicted that a spark due to frayed wiring could cause a fuel tank to explode in a 747 and prevent TWA800. Many unpredictable things do happen over time. If 747s were falling out of the air as often as Elektron fails, we'd still be taking ships across the Atlantic. Systems that use liquids in 0g cannot really be tested on earth. They are tested and debugged while in orbit. And as time goes on, they discover new problems that crop up. That is what the space station is REALLY all about. Not research on how to grow crystals, but how to make and maintain/fix systems that are in long term use. So in other words the purpose of living in space is to find out how to live in space? A bit circular, wouldn't you say? They'll find the solution to elektron, and this event will contribute to the elektron maintenance manual, MTBF statistics and resupply requirements over the long term. I'd love to see the actual MTBF for Elektron. The perception at least is it isn't all that great for something that's what, 20 year old technology at this piont? And if we had to go to mars today, I'd trust Elektron far more than some newfangled USA (or other country) O2 generator that has not been tested in space yet. There have been enough failures of elektron to have a good idea of how much and what maintenance will be required over a long period. There have been enough failures of Elektron that I'd be insisting on carrying a LOT more O2 cylinders... or staying home. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Jim Oberg" wrote in message ... Good comments, well said. Jim, for one, you better than to toppost and to quote an entire article. And you're probably in a better position than most to get the actual stats like MTBF, etc. "John Doe" wrote in message ... And with all the years in service, you'd think Boeing would have predicted that a spark due to frayed wiring could cause a fuel tank to explode in a 747 and prevent TWA800. Many unpredictable things do happen over time. Systems that use liquids in 0g cannot really be tested on earth. They are tested and debugged while in orbit. And as time goes on, they discover new problems that crop up. That is what the space station is REALLY all about. Not research on how to grow crystals, but how to make and maintain/fix systems that are in long term use. They'll find the solution to elektron, and this event will contribute to the elektron maintenance manual, MTBF statistics and resupply requirements over the long term. And if we had to go to mars today, I'd trust Elektron far more than some newfangled USA (or other country) O2 generator that has not been tested in space yet. There have been enough failures of elektron to have a good idea of how much and what maintenance will be required over a long period. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
John Doe wrote:
"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote: And of course compare, how many years have the Russians been working on Elektron in orbit vs. the American system. You'd think my now they'd have a bit more bugs worked out. And with all the years in service, you'd think Boeing would have predicted that a spark due to frayed wiring could cause a fuel tank to explode in a 747 and prevent TWA800. Many unpredictable things do happen over time. That sounds pretty sensible and persuasive, to the uneducated on the issues. Sure Boeing knew frayed wiring was a hazard, they also knew that frayed wiring in a fuel tank was a hazard. What they didn't know, and had no reasonable way of knowing was that Flight 800 had problems and that they were critical. Out here in the real world you can't ground an aircraft type on a whim. (Assuming of course that wiring was the cause of the problem... Something that's not known for certain.) Systems that use liquids in 0g cannot really be tested on earth. They are tested and debugged while in orbit. And as time goes on, they discover new problems that crop up. That is what the space station is REALLY all about. Not research on how to grow crystals, but how to make and maintain/fix systems that are in long term use. Sensible. The problem is, the Russians advertised this as a functional device ready for operational service. Like so much else they have claimed, it's been shown to be a lie. They'll find the solution to elektron, and this event will contribute to the elektron maintenance manual, MTBF statistics and resupply requirements over the long term. That's nice. However, the Elektron isn't being manufactured any more. And if we had to go to mars today, I'd trust Elektron far more than some newfangled USA (or other country) O2 generator that has not been tested in space yet. There have been enough failures of elektron to have a good idea of how much and what maintenance will be required over a long period. You'd be a fool. Correction... You be a *dead* damm fool. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
"Jim Oberg" wrote:
Good comments, well said. You bought his bilge Jim? D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:
Systems that use liquids in 0g cannot really be tested on earth. They are tested and debugged while in orbit. And as time goes on, they discover new problems that crop up. That is what the space station is REALLY all about. Not research on how to grow crystals, but how to make and maintain/fix systems that are in long term use. So in other words the purpose of living in space is to find out how to live in space? A bit circular, wouldn't you say? No, he's saying what I've been saying for a while. LEO is the best place to develop and test systems for eventual Mars/Asteroid missions. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
No, he's saying what I've been saying for a while. LEO is the best place to develop and test systems for eventual Mars/Asteroid missions. Thats certinally true for a first step, the second step should be a long term moon base, and some circular trips to near earth asteroids.Take extended orbits for long duration stays where in a emergency you can get back pretty fast. Then begin nuclear propulsion and scale it up before attemopting a mars mission. Before crew leaves for Mars we should have already in orbit a mars orbiter station, some mars lander bases all set up, a fast emergency supplies vehicle, large power to weight to get needed emergency supplies to a mars transit vehicle.. then and only then send the first crew flying with a backup vehicle either attached or in a loose formation. HAVE A GREAT DAY! |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
"Derek Lyons" wrote in message ... "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote: Systems that use liquids in 0g cannot really be tested on earth. They are tested and debugged while in orbit. And as time goes on, they discover new problems that crop up. That is what the space station is REALLY all about. Not research on how to grow crystals, but how to make and maintain/fix systems that are in long term use. So in other words the purpose of living in space is to find out how to live in space? A bit circular, wouldn't you say? No, he's saying what I've been saying for a while. LEO is the best place to develop and test systems for eventual Mars/Asteroid missions. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. To the Russians credit, they actually have a working system up there and if their Elektron fails then they might have to burn one of their oxygen generating "candles" that have worked so well in the past, at least if they didn't cause a major fire. This makes me wonder just how much clout NASA has over the Russian equipment that goes on the ISS. I would hope that they are able to insist on some insight on the equipment, particularly things such as safety hazards. One negative is that I don't believe we even know whether or not Russia has anyone actually spending the money to have any organization actively trying to improve Elektron. It appears to me that rather than accepting the Russian equipment as super-qualified because it has been around for a long time that a combined U.S. Russian program to improve certain specific capabilities (Elektron, space suits, oxygen generating devices) could be very productive. Although probably tied up by political realities. Mike Walsh |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
"Mike Walsh" wrote:
To the Russians credit, they actually have a working system up there Where? Certainly not Elektron. This makes me wonder just how much clout NASA has over the Russian equipment that goes on the ISS. I would hope that they are able to insist on some insight on the equipment, particularly things such as safety hazards. NASA has a history of hiding and covering up Russian safety shortcomings. IIRC, JimO has a copy on his website of a report documenting this. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Progress on RCC Repair? | ed kyle | Space Shuttle | 0 | January 6th 04 07:38 PM |
Simple paintbrush can repair damaged tiles... | Brian C. | Space Shuttle | 0 | October 9th 03 04:22 PM |
MSNBC (Oberg): NASA returns to roots for tile repair | James Oberg | Space Shuttle | 0 | September 19th 03 03:33 PM |
MSNBC (Oberg): NASA returns to roots for tile repair | James Oberg | History | 0 | September 19th 03 03:33 PM |
No RCC Repair Kit for Next Shuttle Flight? | ed kyle | Space Shuttle | 4 | August 27th 03 02:05 PM |