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http://www.space.com/13060-nasa-huma...ture-path.html I watched Apollo astronauts Neil Armstrong and Eugene Cernan, in space.com today and it was sad. So sad it made me cry. Amstrong's hands were trembling when he spoke softly. And I remembered those days of 69 when everything seemed possible and he proved it before all mankind as we watched him step into another planet. I remembered my grandfather, the same that told me that he paid big money in his youth to go to a show to see a machine heavier than the air take off and fly over the rooftops. And he could see, before he died, that a man stepped into a machine heavier than the air and flew to the moon. And all that came in a second, when I saw Amstrong and Cernan with their hair all white (as mine) plead for returning to space, keeping on that dream. But nothing goes any more in this era of greed. Space is just not profitable. |
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Space is just not profitable. Neither is welfare but it seems that's where the folks like Obama would rather spend the nation's money. Somehow though the space pioneers faded from public view after Apollo when their presence and support may have brought us something more meaningful than the Space Shuttle and ISS that became bottomless money pits without inspiring most of the population or delivering on any of their promises. |
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On 9/23/2011 1:38 PM, jacob navia wrote:
But nothing goes any more in this era of greed. Space is just not profitable. We wouldn't have built may airplanes either if you couldn't: A. Use them to aid in killing people. B. Make a buck off of them. Now if Buzz had been there, things would have been different. He would have danced with most of the members of congress, then brought in his pet chimpanzee, "Moonwatcher" who would present each of the congress members with a small model of Phobos with a tiny black monolith on it. After that, they would know what to do. After the chimp's bullet riddled and lifeless body was dragged from the chamber and Buzz was safely in the custody of the police, Neil's testimony would seem like the height of rationality and most sage advice. I suggested this outside-the-box strategy to NASA last week, but the hidebound fools would have none of it. Pat |
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"jacob navia" wrote in message ... And all that came in a second, when I saw Amstrong and Cernan with their hair all white (as mine) plead for returning to space, keeping on that dream. "Dreams are well but Waking's better, If One wake at Morn If One wake at Midnight better Dreaming of the Dawn" There are two ways of looking at the space program. The way it is, or what it could become. It could provide the long term solution to the global energy future. And end wars over oil. It could become the primary solution to climate change. It could bring prosperity and opportunity to billions in the third world, and end world hunger. It could transform humanity from barbaric, to civilized once and for all. The largest industry in the world is food, followed closely by energy. And a quarter of the food produced spoils for a lack of energy. All it takes is to figure out how in the world the space program can become directly connected to those industries and needs Space Solar Power is no pipe-dream, colonies on Mars and mining asteroids are pipe-dreams which provide little hope for a better future. Nothing approaching the possibilities of an entirely clean energy source which can /travel/ to the ends of the Earth, reaching all those people currently left behind, where conventional power will never reach. Because of the ability of Space Solar Power to reach anywhere including thinly populated areas, SSP would be every bit as big an advance as AC power was over DC. For billions it would be the difference between electricity and the Internet, or nothing, and remaining in stone age poverty. All that, and our space program badly needs new inspiration and direction. You may feel sad at the current state of affairs, I see a space program which only just now has a rare and magnificent opportunity to Save the World from itself yet again. I truly believe that day will soon come true. These guys feel the same way, and they represent the best and brightest in their field. Space Energy Inc. http://spaceenergy.com/ "But how shall finished Creatures A function fresh obtain? Old Nicodemus' Phantom Confronting us again!" s |
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On Sep 23, 5:20*pm, "Val Kraut" wrote:
Space is just not profitable. *Neither is welfare but it seems that's where the folks like Obama would rather spend the nation's money. Somehow though the space pioneers faded from public view after Apollo when their presence and support may have brought us something more meaningful than the Space Shuttle and ISS that became bottomless money pits without inspiring most of the population or delivering on any of their promises. And his replacement will only be concerned about the welfare of the CEOs, the very rich, members of corporate boards, and the more special member of the American Chamber of Commerce. Space exploration isn't on that list either except as pork sausage with lots of cereal fillers. For some it is greed and others it is the result of being too low on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It is true there are always poor but there aren't always Depressions and we may only be at 1929 as it stands. Or at the very best sometime in the 1930s prior to the second dip. Perhaps the next grand old party can reintroduce the policies of pre-war Dixie? Or maybe "they" can retread the "final solution" or perhaps go with the slogan "we only tax the poor and the working classes so there will be fewer of them" or perhaps "the rich are worth it so they deserve lower taxes".............oops they already use that one or nearly so. So the free market won't explore space? Maybe the great state of Texas can do it with hot air balloons and faith based propulsion systems. I wonder if Mars has hydrocarbon deposits for exploitation? Maybe we can get some global warming going on there? Off to live in a rat hole on a rock in a near vacuum with the employer controlling the air supply. .................................................. Trig |
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Check this out;
Ever wonder why we didn't have income taxes before 1913? Ever wonder how government coped? We didn't have income taxes before 1913 because before 1913 the USA issued debt free currency as a sovereign state - and spent that money into existence and then raised sufficient tax to keep the money in circulation of stable value. That's how Lincoln paid for the Civil War, and why the USA accumulated so much wealth and grew so rapidly from the Civil War through 1913 despite millions of people coming to America during this period. Lincoln's commitment to debt free currency is why Lincoln was assassinated. The issuance of debt free currency to resolve an artificially induced banking crisis is why Garfield was assassinated. Imposing restrictions to keep US gold and silver from Alaska in the US to support US currency is why McKinley was assassinated. A big supporter of McKinley and US economic growth independently of European influence, John Astor, was killed along with 600 other major supporters of the "American Way" were given free passage on the maiden voyage of the Titanic, by the major supporter of European banking interests, JP Morgan, who bought the White Star line, paid for the Titanic, and sold the company afterward. A few months after the death of Astor and his associates, the Federal Reserve was made law. Check out this chart of wages and productivity; http://jkornacki.com/wp-content/uplo...real_wages.jpg Productivity and wages decoupled in 1913. The decoupling accelerated in 1963. What happened on these dates? In 1913 the USA created the Federal Reserve and IRS. In 1963 JFK was assassinated and the perpetrators got precious metals out of our currency and got into power and passed laws that restricted liberties and free markets and created 'too big to fails' which is another name for Fascism. Why is that important? Because after 1913 money=debt and debt bears interest which extracts all the wealth out of an economy. After 1963 the government lost all ability to operate independently of the Federal Reserve. Federal Reserve: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...84887024293324 JFK Assassination: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAQ5mFkrlDs JFK Jr. Death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=284zz4Nl00g FDR Assassination Attempt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnr7CxqxJdQ The American Way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgcdRCWEt4Q What can we do? Personal currency instead of world currency... Return to our roots, with modern counterfeit proof electronic currency http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgcdRCWEt4Q A peer to peer electronic currency: http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf Gift economy versus market economy... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy How do you bring this about? CORE PRODUCTIVE CAPACITY (1) Self-replicating machine systems... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_machine CORE TRANSPORT CAPABILITY (2) Voitenko Compressor initiated microfusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voitenko_compressor CORE MECHANICAL ENERGY CAPABILITY (3) Zero-point energy extraction http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html Alright, so let's put this together. THE POWER OF SELF REPLICATION: A 23 micron diameter nano-robot made by reacting chemicals against a chemically structured wafer masses 7.5 nano-grams. So, you need 133 billion of these devices to make 1 kilogram of material. How long does it take to do this starting with one machine? Well if the replication time takes 1 hour - you'll need; 1 hour * LN(133e9)/LN(2) = 36.956 hours ~ 37 hours! Starting with 1 kg of these devices it will take 1 hour * LN(1000)/LN(2) = 9.965 hours ~ 10 hours! to make a tonne. Starting with 1 tonne of these devices it will take 1 hours * LN(7e9)/LN(2) = 32.704 hours ~ 33 hours! to produce 1 tonne of these devices for every man woman and child on the face of the planet. Approximately 80 hours - less than four days - after completing the very first machine. PRACTICAL FUSION Lithium-6 isotope of Lithium when combined with Deuterium isotope of Hydrogen forms a powder with an average density of 0.82 grams per cubic centimeter - when compressed with a Voitenko Compressor, produces an aneutronic fusion reaction - that produces alpha particles, which are EASILY deflected, moving at 11% light speed (33,000 km/sec) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion Designs for these engines have been completed and tested. Disposable chemical and electromagnetic compressors have been built using micro- electro-mechanical systems (MEMS) aka wafer fab techniques at very low cost and efficient paraboloid deflectors have been designed built and tested. With this sort of engine it is possible to fly across the solar system in a matter of days at constant gee. Consider a trip from Earth to Moon at constant gee. One where you accelerate half way then flip over and slow half way to a gentle landing, avoiding the problem of zero gee aboard ship. Well if you do that with this fusion rocket it takes 3.6 hours each way and consumes 0.75% of the total vehicle's weight to go out and back. You reach a top speed of 62.7 km/sec. How about a constant gee trip to Mars? Well this takes 48 hours each way and consumes 9.9% of the total vehicles weight to go out and back. A top speed of 858.2 km/sec is achieved. How about a constant gee trip to Ceres and back? This takes 57 hours each way and requires 21.7% of the ships mass be propellant. Cutting these accelerations back to 1/10th gee - for freight - changes the Earth Moon times to 5.6 hours each way the top speed to 39.6 km/ sec and the propellant fraction to 0.24% It changes the Earth Mars times to 48.6 hours each way, top speed to 85.8 km/sec and propellant fraction to 1%. It changes the Earth Ceres times to 114.1 hours top speed to 403.2 km/sec and propellant fraction to 2.41% One way they consume about 1.5% propellant fraction. Minimum energy orbits require vastly less energy with longer trip times. Wealthy humanity uses around 4 tonnes per person per year of materials. 1.5 tons of that is fuel. This means that there are 2.5 tonnes per person per year is other stuff since practical fusion ends reliance on fossil fuels. Assuming all persons are wealthy and obtain their raw materials from the Asteroid belt at 1/10th gee - each person would consume 28.2 kilograms of lithium-6. There are 21 trillion kg of lithium-6 in Earth's oceans. Even more in the ices of Saturn's moons and in the asteroids. Enough to last centuries even assuming every man woman and child obtained every raw material they used on Earth from the asteroid belt. It takes up to 30 days to ship things by container ship. It takes 5 days to ship by fusion rocket at 1/10th gee. The space travel problem is solved with this technology. ZERO POINT ENERGY The Casimir-Polder force is a well defined effect caused by the zero point energy of the vacuum. Since this force is not conserved, it can be tapped. That is the State Variable of the Vacuum is non-zero. Chemicals have been designed to work with microscopic channels to take advantage of this Casimir force to extract useful energy to change the chemical's state. This changes everything. And useful machines have been built using them. The important point here is we have no energy shortages running our machinery and especially our self replicating machinery. While this is useful for replacing chemical fuels, and batteries, it does not yet work at the nuclear level, so, fusion power has specific application. WHAT CAN WE DO? I am engaged in the following program; (1) deploy a cloud of microscopic observers throughout the biosphere that network together to implement a free intelligence service and internet; (2) send a 1 kg payload to Saturn at 1 gee using a 207 gram fusion rocket (yes they can be made that small). It arrives in 9 days. (3) deposit the self-replicating payload in the Saturnian moon Iapetus. This moon contains 1.6e+21 kg of water ice. The Earth's hydrosphere contains 1.4e+21 kg of water. (4) process the entire body of Iapetus with self-replicating machine systems extracting 2e+20 kg of raw materials, and sending sufficient water to Venus to form an ocean that covers 50% of its surface, sufficient water to cover 25% of Mars, 25% of the Moon and 25% of Mercury with oceans. (5) Eject ice from Saturn's moon Iapetus at 35 km/sec using fusion energized rockets toward Venus, Mercury and the Moon, it arrives at 40 km/sec to 45 km/sec - and directed against the limb of these worlds, causes them to spin - taking up a 24 hour day. Mars already spins at a rate of 24 hours. It takes 9 months for the oceans to arrive at these planets. (6) During transit send small self-replicating systems to Venus, Mars, the Moon and Mercury as well as Ceres and other major asteroids. Process the atmosphere of Venus and the crusts of these worlds to a depth of 20 km. (7) There is enough nitrogen on Venus to sustain 4.3 Earth atmospheres. Enough oxygen (when separated from Carbon) to sustain 306 Earth atmospheres. Enough carbon to construct large sun shields and diamondoid solar panels at Lagrange Point 1 between the Sun and Each planet. For Venus and Mercury these reduce light levels on the planet to Earth normal. For Mars this operates as a condenser to focus additional light on Mars to raise light levels to Earth normal. Solar energy is used to drive powerful electro magnetic at each shield to provide protection from Solar wind and Solar flares. The atmospheric gases are sufficient to give Venus, Mars, the Moon and Mercury earth normal atmospheres. (8) The materials are processed in the crusts of each world to make them stable after the arrival of water. Excess materials, and especially metals, are extracted and sent to Lagrange Point 1, to be held in trust for all mankind. These materials along with self- replicating machine systems that extracted them, are capable of making any manner of products. (9) After the arrival and settling of the oceans, self replicating machine systems shape the land and sea floor and establish stable chemical conditions. Advanced propagation techniques are applied to a small quantity of stock extracted from Earth to fill the land and ocean with Earth life, including freely available food crops fiber crops and livestock. This will be completed only 5 years after launch of the initial Saturn probe. A total of 90 billion acres of land have been developed. (10) Based on modeling of the human race derived from the intelligence network mentioned previously construct free flying fusion powered space homes at Mercury and fly them to Earth. Pick up all people who desire a freehold off world. Each man woman and child (7 billion total as of today) can claim 5 acres each, along with a proportionate demand on the self-replicating systems and feedstock materials extracted by this process - to build a self-sustaining homestead anywhere of their choosing off world. They owe nothing for this, it is a gift. The only requirement is that they give to those in need as they see the need, as payment. http://www.scribd.com/doc/62745980/Flying-Home (11) Over the next 15 years the entire asteroid belt along with surplus air and water, are used to complete a ring of large interconnected space colonies in a ring 820 million km in diameter with a colony diameter of 30 km - with a condenser orbiting sunward 240 km in diameter to achieve shielding and Earth normal light levels. This has vast oceans and 7.3 TRILLION acres of productive land area. Saturn's moon Enceladus provides additional water. Neptune's moon Triton provides added nitrogen. Venus continues to supply adequate oxygen. At 80 acres per home it will take over 600 years to reach that capacity of this structure. (12) At Mercury large solar pumped laser arrays are built and deployed to float on light pressure 3.7 million km above the Sun's surface. Laser energy is directed outward to a reflector, also held in place by light pressure, 100 billion km or more from the Sun. This reflector bounces the light back AROUND the Sun, using its gravity as a vast lens, allowing beams to be accurately formed and maintained across the light years - pointed at a nearby star. Laser light sails operate with fusion powered rockets to allow them to accelerate to 33% light speed. They boost at 1/6 gee from the Solar system to 100 billion km in about 4 months - along the line connecting Sol to the nearby star. There a solar sail is deployed and the engine is cut off. Acceleration rises to 1/3 gee - and lasts about 9 months. The ship is now traveling at 100,000 km/sec. In 12 to 15 years depending on the star, the ship arrives at the nearby star. There a similar laser pointing away from the star, slows the ship after it deploys its light sail. It arrives at the target star and uses its fusion engine to slow further and navigate throughout the remote star system. Earlier, two stage light sails deposited self replicating machine systems which first surveyed the target star, and terra formed planets and built space colonies - as at Sol. As for the Solar System, vast areas around each star are turned to the support of human beings. Starting in 2025 and continuing through 2300 - even assuming a 1.14% per year rate of growth in human numbers, we can see that the number of people per Earth area drops from 43 million to 5,000!! This is the vision I have for space travel over the next few years. Cheers William Mook |
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On Sep 27, 6:54*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote: Check this out; Ever wonder why we didn't have income taxes before 1913? Uh, we did. No we didn't. The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows the Congress to levy an income tax. That was passed at the same time as the Federal Reserve 1913. Before that time Congress didn't do collect unapportioned taxes in peace time. It merely spent money into existence. In war time Congress had to spend more money than the growth of the economy could absorb. So, to avoid inflation during the Civil War Congress introduced the Revenue Act of 1861. It levied a flat tax of 3% on annual incomes above $800. This act was replaced the following year with the Revenue Act of 1862, which levied a graduated tax of 3–5% on income above $600. It also specified a termination in 1866. We didn't have income taxes before 1913 because before 1913 the USA issued debt free currency as a sovereign state - and spent that money into existence and then raised sufficient tax to keep the money in circulation of stable value. That's how Lincoln paid for the Civil War, and why the USA accumulated so much wealth and grew so rapidly from the Civil War through 1913 despite millions of people coming to America during this period. Gee, and here I thought that the first income tax was enacted in 1862 to pay for the Civil War and THAT is how they did it. No. The money was printed and spent into existence without incurring debt. The Revenue Act proves my point. It was an emergency measure to keep the money Congress spent to prosecute the war from inflating during the excessive demands of money from the war. It ended when the war ended. remaining Mookery of the facts removed unread shrug If you read them maybe you'd learn something that you weren't indoctrinated with and begin thinking for yourself. Your choice. -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the *truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson This quote is taken out of context. People should know that. In this quote Jefferson was writing about Limestone in the State of Virginia and commenting on Voltaire's theories of how Limestone came to have the configuration found in the State of Virginia. The quote isn't about life or philosophy of truth or anything and shouldn't be taken that way. With that in mind, I regard Freddies misquotation as a crude attempt at psyop - trying to suggest the founding fathers embraced ignorance as a general way of life. They didn't. Jefferson was merely saying he thought Voltaire's theories about Limestone formation in the State of Virginia were not quite right. Notes on the State of Virginia (1781-1783) was a book written by Thomas Jefferson. Originally written in 1781, it was subsequently updated and enlarged in 1782-83 and anonymously published in Paris in 1784. It was the only book by Jefferson published during his lifetime. It was written in order to answer questions posed to Jefferson about Virginia by François Barbé-Marbois then the Secretary of the French Legation in Philadelphia who mentioned Voltaire's theories to him and to which he responded. Here's the entire quote; Limestone But one vein of lime-stone is known below the Blue ridge. Its first appearance, in our country, is in Prince William, two miles below the Pignut ridge of mountains; thence it passes on nearly parallel with that, and crosses the Rivanna about five miles below it, where it is called the South-west ridge. It then crosses Hardware, above the mouth of Hudson's creek, James river at the mouth of Rockfish, at the marble quarry before spoken of, probably runs up that river to where it appears again at Ross's iron-works, and so passes off south-westwardly by Flat creek of Otter river. It is never more than one hundred yards wide. From the Blue ridge westwardly the whole country seems to be founded on a rock of lime-stone, besides infinite quantities on the surface, both loose and fixed. This is cut into beds, which range, as the mountains and sea-coast do, from south-west to north-east, the lamina of each bed declining from the horizon towards a parallelism with the axis of the earth. Being struck with this observation, I made, with a quadrant, a great number of trials on the angles of their declination, and found them to vary from 22 degrees to 60 degrees but averaging all my trials, the result was within one-third of a degree of the elevation of the pole or latitude of the place, and much the greatest part of them taken separately were little different from that: by which it appears, that these lamina are, in the main, parallel with the axis of the earth. In some instances, indeed, I found them perpendicular, and even reclining the other way: but these were extremely rare, and always attended with signs of convulsion, or other circumstances of singularity, which admitted a possibility of removal from their original position. These trials were made between Madison's cave and the Patowmac. We hear of lime-stone on the Missisipi and Ohio, and in all the mountainous country between the eastern and western waters, not on the mountains themselves, but occupying the vallies between them. Near the eastern foot of the North mountain are immense bodies of _Schist_, containing impressions of shells in a variety of forms. I have received petrified shells of very different kinds from the first sources of the Kentucky, which bear no resemblance to any I have ever seen on the tide-waters. It is said that shells are found in the Andes, in South-America, fifteen thousand feet above the level of the ocean. This is considered by many, both of the learned and unlearned, as a proof of an universal deluge. To the many considerations opposing this opinion, the following may be added. The atmosphere, and all its contents, whether of water, air, or other matters, gravitate to the earth; that is to say, they have weight. Experience tells us, that the weight of all these together never exceeds that of a column of mercury of 31 inches height, which is equal to one of rain-water of 35 feet high. If the whole contents of the atmosphere then were water, instead of what they are, it would cover the globe but 35 feet deep; but as these waters, as they fell, would run into the seas, the superficial measure of which is to that of the dry parts of the globe as two to one, the seas would be raised only 52 1/2 feet above their present level, and of course would overflow the lands to that height only. In Virginia this would be a very small proportion even of the champaign country, the banks of our tide-waters being frequently, if not generally, of a greater height. Deluges beyond this extent then, as for instance, to the North mountain or to Kentucky, seem out of the laws of nature. But within it they may have taken place to a greater or less degree, in proportion to the combination of natural causes which may be supposed to have produced them. History renders probable some instances of a partial deluge in the country lying round the Mediterranean sea. It has been often (* 1) supposed, and is not unlikely, that that sea was once a lake. While such, let us admit an extraordinary collection of the waters of the atmosphere from the other parts of the globe to have been discharged over that and the countries whose waters run into it. Or without supposing it a lake, admit such an extraordinary collection of the waters of the atmosphere, and an influx of waters from the Atlantic ocean, forced by long continued Western winds. That lake, or that sea, may thus have been so raised as to overflow the low lands adjacent to it, as those of Egypt and Armenia, which, according to a tradition of the Egyptians and Hebrews, were overflowed about 2300 years before the Christian aera; those of Attica, said to have been overflowed in the time of Ogyges, about 500 years later; and those of Thessaly, in the time of Deucalion, still 300 years posterior. But such deluges as these will not account for the shells found in the higher lands. A second opinion has been entertained, which is, that, in times anterior to the records either of history or tradition, the bed of the ocean, the principal residence of the shelled tribe, has, by some great convulsion of nature, been heaved to the heights at which we now find shells and other remains of marine animals. The favourers of this opinion do well to suppose the great events on which it rests to have taken place beyond all the aeras of history; for within these, certainly none such are to be found: and we may venture to say further, that no fact has taken place, either in our own days, or in the thousands of years recorded in history, which proves the existence of any natural agents, within or without the bowels of the earth, of force sufficient to heave, to the height of 15,000 feet, such masses as the Andes. The difference between the power necessary to produce such an effect, and that which shuffled together the different parts of Calabria in our days, is so immense, that, from the existence of the latter we are not authorised to infer that of the former. M. de Voltaire has suggested a third solution of this difficulty (Quest. encycl. Coquilles). He cites an instance in Touraine, where, in the space of 80 years, a particular spot of earth had been twice metamorphosed into soft stone, which had become hard when employed in building. In this stone shells of various kinds were produced, discoverable at first only with the microscope, but afterwards growing with the stone. From this fact, I suppose, he would have us infer, that, besides the usual process for generating shells by the elaboration of earth and water in animal vessels, nature may have provided an equivalent operation, by passing the same materials through the pores of calcareous earths and stones: as we see calcareous dropstones generating every day by the percolation of water through lime-stone, and new marble forming in the quarries from which the old has been taken out; and it might be asked, whether it is more difficult for nature to shoot the calcareous juice into the form of a shell, than other juices into the forms of chrystals, plants, animals, according to the construction of the vessels through which they pass? There is a wonder somewhere. Is it greatest on this branch of the dilemma; on that which supposes the existence of a power, of which we have no evidence in any other case; or on the first, which requires us to believe the creation of a body of water, and its subsequent annihilation? The establishment of the instance, cited by M. de Voltaire, of the growth of shells unattached to animal bodies, would have been that of his theory. But he has not established it. He has not even left it on ground so respectable as to have rendered it an object of enquiry to the literati of his own country. Abandoning this fact, therefore, the three hypotheses are equally unsatisfactory; and we must be contented to acknowledge, that this great phaenomenon is as yet unsolved. Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, then he who believes what is wrong. |
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On Sep 29, 12:00*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote: On Sep 27, 6:54 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: Check this out; Ever wonder why we didn't have income taxes before 1913? Uh, we did. No we didn't. Yes we did. *Go look it up, you ignorant ****. I did you removed them. http://www.irs.gov/app/understanding...hm02_les03.jsp Mookie lies removed unread The IRS is mis-stating the facts. THIS IS WHAT YOUR REFERENCE SAYS: In 1862, Congress passed the first federal income tax law to ease the burden of Civil War debts. This early tax was a progressive tax. It applied only to people who made more than $600, ensuring that the tax was based on citizens' ability to pay. The government relied on voluntary compliance with the income tax. Before it was repealed in 1872, this federal income tax provided nearly a quarter of the war revenue. HERE ARE THE FACTS The Revenue Act of 1861 was extended in 1862 and was terminated in 1866. What the IRS says is a 'repeal' in 1872 is actually the defeat of an attempt to restore the Revenue Act which was defeated in 1872. The Revenue Act died a natural death in 1866. More specifically, the Revenue Act of 1861, formally cited as Act of August 5, 1861, Chap. XLV, 12 Stat. 292. The Act, motivated by the need to redeem a portion of the sovereign dollars spent into existence to pay for Civil War and avoid inflation at the same time. Rates under the 1861 Revenue Act were 3% on income above $800 This was replaced in 1862. The tax provision (Sections 49, 50 and 51) was repealed by the Revenue Act of 1862. Sec.89, which replaced the flat rate with a progressive scale of 3% on annual incomes beyond $600. Significantly the Act was explicitly temporary specifying termination of tax in "the year eighteen hundred and sixty-six". That's why the Sixteenth Amendment had to be ratified in 1913 to allow the federal government to tax citizens' incomes directly. THE MAIN POINT: The United States CREATED THE MONEY IT NEEDED AS A SOVEREIGN POWER WITHOUT BORROWING!!!! Doing so saved US citizens significant interest and maintaining control of the money supply. Taxes when they were levied were apportioned and were raised only to take excess money out of circulation to control inflation. It wasn't until the creation of the FEDERAL RESERVE that the Sixteenth Amendment was passed which caused Americans to be taxed generally. TODAY ALL TAXES ARE PAID DIRECTLY TO THE PRIVATE FEDERAL RESERVE TO PAY FOR INTEREST ON LOANS OUTSTANDING. THE MONEY THAT IS SPENT BY CONGRESS IS THAT MONEY LOANED TO CONGRESS BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE AFTER CONGRESS AGREES TO CONDITIONALITIES IMPOSED BY THE PRIVATELY OWNED FEDERAL RESERVE. THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS A SCAM TO EXTRACT THE WEALTH OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND ISN'T NEEDED FOR OUR GOVERNMENT TO FUNCTION!!! THE PRESIDENT CAN CAUSE MONEY TO BE CREATED AND SPENT INTO EXISTENCE WITHOUT BORROWING IT FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE (See JFK Executive Order 11110 and Lincoln's Legal Tender Act of 1861) With the Super Congress Obama could impose a TOBIN TAX OF 1% RETROACTIVELY over last year's trading and rise $33 trillion and pay off the US Debt of $17 trillion. He could then issue sovereign currency against the $16 trillion liability and do whatever was needed. Accounting and legal fees run about 2% of trading volume, so a 1% tax would be easily supported. The US exchanges transacted $3.3 Quadrillion in trades last year. The Revolutionary War wasn't about taxes on tea. It was about King George III along with British Parlaiment prohibiting New England from issuing paper currency as legal tender. This imposes a hardship on the colonists of the region, many of whom are engaged in the trading economy and who find hard currency increasingly scarce because they keep sending it to England in order to pay debts. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is *only stupid." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine Fred's an asshole to say that what I said previously was a lie. The man's a friggin' jerk. |
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Sadness
On Sep 29, 10:07*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote: On Sep 29, 12:00 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: On Sep 27, 6:54 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: Check this out; Ever wonder why we didn't have income taxes before 1913? Uh, we did. No we didn't. Yes we did. Go look it up, you ignorant ****. I did you removed them. No, you didn't. *You spewed a bunch of your usual paranoid delusions. http://www.irs.gov/app/understanding...hm02_les03.jsp Mookie lies removed unread The IRS is mis-stating the facts. And so is EVERYONE ELSE BUT MOOKIE! Seek professional help. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is *only stupid." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine Its not me saying it Freddie, its the Congressional Record. Look up the Revenue Act and its history and you'll see the IRS is misquoting history on their web site. In any case, the IRS and the facts prove my point about the ability of the USA to operate without an income tax. Namely, that the United States, as a Sovereign Power, has the ability to create money from nothing and spend it into existence. It doesn't have to go beg for money or borrow money. It does have a responsibility to regulate the value of the money it creates. How does it do that? The taxes that it collects is used to regulate the value of that money. The IRS itself says the income tax collected 25% of the cost of the war. Where did the other 75% come from? The fact is, the 75% came from the printing presses. The growth of economic activity during and after the war, absorbed and made good use of the currency. That growth maintained its value. After the war the revenue expired and the government went back to business as usual - without income tax. If the United States created a 1% Tobin Tax on Wall Street transactions last year, and urged all other nations to tax their stock exchanges in a similar way, we could eliminate our current debts to the central banks, not take any more loans from them, and issue debt free currency the same way Lincoln did and the same way JFK did. We also need to end fractional reserve banking and institute 100% reserve banking. We finally need to phase out derivative trading and work to get the quadrillions of dollars in fake liabilities off the books of the world's banking system while preserving the health of the real economy. |
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Sadness
On Sep 29, 11:57*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote: On Sep 29, 10:07 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: On Sep 29, 12:00 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: On Sep 27, 6:54 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: Check this out; Ever wonder why we didn't have income taxes before 1913? Uh, we did. No we didn't. Yes we did. Go look it up, you ignorant ****. I did you removed them. No, you didn't. You spewed a bunch of your usual paranoid delusions. http://www.irs.gov/app/understanding...hm02_les03.jsp Mookie lies removed unread The IRS is mis-stating the facts. And so is EVERYONE ELSE BUT MOOKIE! Seek professional help. Its not me saying it Freddie, Yeah it is, Mookie. remaining insanity elided Seek professional help, you threadjacking little whackjob. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is *only stupid." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine Obviously I'm just a mirror for your madness Fred. I only made one comment on my own. All the others were in response to your errors. I think if you cut the pills in half, you might have better results. |
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