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  #11  
Old September 23rd 11, 08:43 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default UARS seen on video

On 9/22/2011 7:53 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:

At the moment, their resistance to using the Euro as their currency
must look pretty wise in retrospect.


Quite. The problem with the Euro is similar to what's wrong with free
trade. Going too wide on either, thus connecting profoundly different
economies, tends to not work well. If Mexican wages are made the
norm for the US, bad things happen to most USians. If nations with
balanced banking sectors and budgets tie into nations lacking the
one or both, you get some of what is happening in Europe now.


There was a great deal of criticism about what the Euro was going to
lead to by putting such a group of both rich and impoverished nations
together under a common currency, from day one of its creation.
But apparently the dream of a pan-European economic future Utopia
defeated any thoughts of current reality, or indeed any consideration of
how such a union would work over a period of years or decades.
One is reminded of the immediate post French revolution... where
everything, including dating of years, the names and length of months
and measurements were going to get all changed.
France's Sarkozy has apparently decided that He knows the best way to
settle the Israeli/ Palestinian problem, unlike Obama:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/fr...010948169.html
Why do I see Napoleon setting his foot for the first time on the shores
of Egypt? :-D
He wants to wander into that swamp and replace the US in it as its
leader, more power to him. :-D :-D :-D

Pat
  #12  
Old September 23rd 11, 06:23 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Doug Freyburger
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Default UARS seen on video

Andre Lieven wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:

At the moment, their resistance to using the Euro as their currency
must look pretty wise in retrospect.


Once Greece pulls down the Euro, will the Pound and Dollar really last
all that much longer? Looking wise will probably only last a few years.

Quite. The problem with the Euro is similar to what's wrong with free
trade. Going too wide on either, thus connecting profoundly different
economies, tends to not work well. If Mexican wages are made the
norm for the US, bad things happen to most USians. If nations with
balanced banking sectors and budgets tie into nations lacking the
one or both, you get some of what is happening in Europe now.


When the United States switched from the Articles of Confederation to
the Constitution it opened up the largest free trade zone in the world
at the time. The result two centuries later was the biggest economic
powerhouse in the world. The result one century later was a Civil War
that was largely driven by economic differences. One set of states had
low labor costs from slavery. Another set of states had the labor
changes of the Industrial Revolution.

Doing rules for multi national entities should be about the floor
standard going UP to the level of the best, not down to the lowest.


I figure that was what NAFTA was supposed to be about. Certainly the
floor in Mexico has gone up significantly. At some point it will reach
the floor in both the US and Canada and all parties will resume rising.
The question is will there need to be a war in between based on similar
pressures?

Also note that world trade is doing this everywhere. It is driving up
economies in the undeveloped world at the expense of economies in the
developed world. At some point there won't be any more places to
outsource for cheaper labor anywhere in the world and then all of the
floors start going up. Unless there's large scale war to reset most of
the world.
  #14  
Old September 24th 11, 09:24 AM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default UARS seen on video

On Sep 23, 10:23*am, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Andre Lieven wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:


At the moment, their resistance to using the Euro as their currency
must look pretty wise in retrospect.


Once Greece pulls down the Euro, will the Pound and Dollar really last
all that much longer? *Looking wise will probably only last a few years..

Quite. The problem with the Euro is similar to what's wrong with free
trade. Going too wide on either, thus connecting profoundly different
economies, tends to not work well. If Mexican wages are made the
norm for the US, bad things happen to most USians. If nations with
balanced banking sectors and budgets tie into nations lacking the
one or both, you get some of what is happening in Europe now.


When the United States switched from the Articles of Confederation to
the Constitution it opened up the largest free trade zone in the world
at the time. *The result two centuries later was the biggest economic
powerhouse in the world. *The result one century later was a Civil War
that was largely driven by economic differences. *One set of states had
low labor costs from slavery. *Another set of states had the labor
changes of the Industrial Revolution.

Doing rules for multi national entities should be about the floor
standard going UP to the level of the best, not down to the lowest.


I figure that was what NAFTA was supposed to be about. *Certainly the
floor in Mexico has gone up significantly. *At some point it will reach
the floor in both the US and Canada and all parties will resume rising.
The question is will there need to be a war in between based on similar
pressures?

Also note that world trade is doing this everywhere. *It is driving up
economies in the undeveloped world at the expense of economies in the
developed world. *At some point there won't be any more places to
outsource for cheaper labor anywhere in the world and then all of the
floors start going up. *Unless there's large scale war to reset most of
the world.


Two comments: Mexico has problems and its the drug lords are looming
large. Second, wars is coming as it always is just give it time. The
world of man apparently stands at the brink of another Great
Depression
so why shouldn't there be another grand war between
the 'great' powers?

Labor labor everywhere and it can drink all the externalities unto
death
and beyond by way of its
progeny........................................... .Trig
 




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