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'Elektron' repair fails



 
 
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  #51  
Old September 21st 04, 09:48 PM
John Doe
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bob haller wrote:
Caution should be the watchword as another MAJOR screw up may take man out of
nasa forever.


It is called risk management. You know there is a risk of crossing a street on
a green light because some crazy driver may decide to ignore his red light.
But you also know that risk is fairly low and that if it happens, you may have
enough time to react and save your life.

On the station, most everything happens in slow motion. Contrary to Star Trek,
when life support fails on station, the crew don't immediatly faint. If there
is total loss of power, the crew don't instantly freeze to death and then burn
up as the station immediatly falls back to earth.
Mir provided plenty of lessons in that respect. (fire, depressurisation, total
loss of power etc)

Oh, and they have the Soyuz as escape pod.

So, if a meteorite hits the station and depressurisation happens so quickly
that the crew don't have time to get to Soyuz or isolate the faulty module,
then I strongly suspect that a board of inquiry will decide that neither NASA
nor Russia were at fault, and may in fact point fingers at congress for
widthadring funding for a US side espace pod, or preventing the USA from
purchasing an Extra Soyuz to be parked on the USA segment to provide dual
"exits" from station.
  #52  
Old September 22nd 04, 02:18 AM
bob haller
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So, if a meteorite hits the station and depressurisation happens so quickly
that the crew don't have time to get to Soyuz or isolate the faulty module,
then I strongly suspect that a board of inquiry will decide that neither NASA
nor Russia were at fault, and may in fact point fingers at congress for
widthadring funding for a US side espace pod, or preventing the USA from
purchasing an Extra Soyuz to be parked on the USA segment to provide dual
"exits" from station.



What just what if the worst happens and electron explodes and the crew dies,
while the station control is permanetely lost, creating a ISS deathwatch, with
fear of debris hitting people on earth?

Falling so closely after Columbia NASA might be neutered permanetyely by
congress. Manned spaceflight muight never recover.

Or any other failure where the station is lost, or crew is injured. With the
station in limp along mode a safety inquiry might be very damaging..
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
  #53  
Old September 22nd 04, 02:21 AM
Mike Walsh
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"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Findley" wrote:

"Explorer8939" wrote in message
om...
Basically, US ECLSS suffers from the same fate as a lot of other US
space technology, lots of systems engineering, great viewgraphs, but
the damned thing doesn't work.


I know. I just like to see others pointing this out since Derek is
constantly bashing the Russian ECLSS components that are working, at

least
part of the time.


sigh No, I'm not bashing the Russian components. I'm pointing out
that that Russian systems aren't the all perfect all wonderful (all
singing, all dancing) things they are all too often believed to be by
many.

D.
--


To try to get back on the Elektron repair situation.

SpaceNews September 13, 2004 Issue.

Oxygen Generator Shutdown Poses No Threat to ISS Crew

Quote:

The Russian-made Elektron oxygen generator has shut down before,
usually due to air bubbles. Engineers in Moscow initially suspected a
clogged line was to blame for the latest shutdown, but a potential
software glitch became the prime suspect Sept. 10 after ISS Crew
Commander Genady Padalka spent the better part of the day
rebuilding Elektron and clearing its lines.

End of quote. See the article for some more details.

Sounds as if the Russians are still working on and making changes to
Elektron so they aren't just recycling old hardware. Sounds as if
they still aren't doing a thorough job of testing software fixes before
using them. (I draw that conclusion from some of the information
in the book Dragonfly).

In order to determine just how reliable Elektron really is you would
need to be able to view its operating experience and measure how
long it is on and off-line.

I also note that sometimes when you try to fix things to increase
reliability you can make things worse.

From the article, I would assume that the Russians are actively
trying to upgrade Elektron and I give them credit for that.

Mike Walsh


  #54  
Old September 22nd 04, 03:47 PM
Jeff Findley
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"bob haller" wrote in message
...

What just what if the worst happens and electron explodes and the crew

dies,
while the station control is permanetely lost, creating a ISS deathwatch,

with
fear of debris hitting people on earth?


For all you know about Elektron, this could be as likely as a toaster oven
exploding.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.



  #55  
Old September 22nd 04, 08:59 PM
bob haller
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For all you know about Elektron, this could be as likely as a toaster oven
exploding.

Jeff


Actually that occured once here when I was a kid, turned out to be A known
manufacturers defect and they replaced the 3 year ld unit for free

Elektron has all the needed ingredients for explosion, oxygen hydrogen and
electricity, along with being in poor condition...

If theres a problem what will the next safety board have to say about ISS
management?
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
  #56  
Old September 22nd 04, 10:04 PM
Jeff Findley
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"bob haller" wrote in message
...

Actually that occured once here when I was a kid, turned out to be A known
manufacturers defect and they replaced the 3 year ld unit for free

Elektron has all the needed ingredients for explosion, oxygen hydrogen and
electricity, along with being in poor condition...


So does a fully charged cell phone dropped in the toilet, but that doesn't
mean that the toilet is going to explode.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.



  #57  
Old September 22nd 04, 10:07 PM
John Doe
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bob haller wrote:
Elektron has all the needed ingredients for explosion, oxygen hydrogen and
electricity, along with being in poor condition...


Actually, we don't know that Elektron is in "poor" condition. We know that it
is not in best posisble condition and that sensors shut it down when they
detect an anomaly. (even without gas analyser).

Does it get shut down seconds before the unit would have turned into a
hydrogen bomb ? Or does it shut down a microsecond after 2 molecules strayed
into the wrong tube ? We don't know that.

It could very well be that Elektron fails often because they have extremely
high safety standards and it shuts down WAY before any danger could occur. Or
problems could be detected verty late in the game, which might make it a
dangerous unsafe unit. WE DO NOT KNOW WHICH APPLIES.

But the possibility remains that it is still quite safe to operate.
  #58  
Old September 22nd 04, 10:47 PM
bob haller
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dangerous unsafe unit. WE DO NOT KNOW WHICH APPLIES.

But the possibility remains that it is still quite safe to operate.


Yep. and columbia, foam shedding is safe
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
  #59  
Old September 22nd 04, 10:48 PM
bob haller
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So does a fully charged cell phone dropped in the toilet, but that doesn't
mean that the toilet is going to explode.

Jeff


cell phones dont intentionally break down hydrogen and oxygen...
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
 




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