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Sound waves in space?



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 15th 03, 05:01 PM
Bill Sheppard
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Can you actually see in real-time the
motion of this sound?

I don't think so. The evidence that it's a
sound wave seems to be the geometry of the pattern itself.


Since there's no long-term observations to determine actual velocity of
the waves, the question remains open as to whether they're 'gravity
waves' propagating at c or sound waves in interstellar gas.

IF they are GWs, their chaotic pattern suggests a violent event in the
object's past. Possibly the merger of a binary BH pair and subsequent
ringdown to the now-quiescent state. oc

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  #12  
Old September 16th 03, 11:54 AM
Painius
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"Jay Windley" wrote...
in message ...

"Rusty Shackleford" wrote in message
m...
|
| Is this an Aetherist interpretation of sound?

No. The black hole in question sits in a big gas cloud, which provides a
medium in which sound can propagate.

If a black hole farts in a cloud of gas, and no one is there to hear it,
does it make a sound? Yes! The alternating zones of compaction and
rarefaction -- which is how physicists define sound -- can be seen in the
photographs. Whether those waves are detected mechanically by a membrane or
optically by a telescope makes little difference.

Estimates of the density of the the material and the measurable wavelength
give us the frequency.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org


'Lo Jay and Rusty --

Nope, sorry i disagree... what you describe may be
sound *waves* but it is *not* "sound."

Sound, in order to *be* sound, must be *heard*. If not
heard, then it is not "sound," but merely "sound waves."

To use your common analogy, if a tree falls in the forest,
and there is no animal/plant(?) around with the ability to
hear the tree falling, then the falling tree will not generate
sound, i.e., the tree will not be heard. It shall, of course,
generate sound *waves*, which will dissipate without
being heard.

hth

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Life without love is
A lamp with no oil,
Love without prejudice
A world with no soil,
A tool with no toil.

Paine Ellsworth



  #13  
Old September 16th 03, 11:54 AM
Painius
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Default

"Jay Windley" wrote...
in message ...

"Rusty Shackleford" wrote in message
m...
|
| Is this an Aetherist interpretation of sound?

No. The black hole in question sits in a big gas cloud, which provides a
medium in which sound can propagate.

If a black hole farts in a cloud of gas, and no one is there to hear it,
does it make a sound? Yes! The alternating zones of compaction and
rarefaction -- which is how physicists define sound -- can be seen in the
photographs. Whether those waves are detected mechanically by a membrane or
optically by a telescope makes little difference.

Estimates of the density of the the material and the measurable wavelength
give us the frequency.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org


'Lo Jay and Rusty --

Nope, sorry i disagree... what you describe may be
sound *waves* but it is *not* "sound."

Sound, in order to *be* sound, must be *heard*. If not
heard, then it is not "sound," but merely "sound waves."

To use your common analogy, if a tree falls in the forest,
and there is no animal/plant(?) around with the ability to
hear the tree falling, then the falling tree will not generate
sound, i.e., the tree will not be heard. It shall, of course,
generate sound *waves*, which will dissipate without
being heard.

hth

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Life without love is
A lamp with no oil,
Love without prejudice
A world with no soil,
A tool with no toil.

Paine Ellsworth



  #14  
Old September 16th 03, 01:46 PM
Jay Windley
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"Painius" wrote in message
...
|
| Sound, in order to *be* sound, must be *heard*. If not
| heard, then it is not "sound," but merely "sound waves."

What does it mean to "hear"? Hearing is the detection of sound waves.
Sound waves can be detected via a number of methods. Just because you favor
a particular method, and your cranium is equipped with one, doesn't mean
that's the only way.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

  #15  
Old September 16th 03, 01:46 PM
Jay Windley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Painius" wrote in message
...
|
| Sound, in order to *be* sound, must be *heard*. If not
| heard, then it is not "sound," but merely "sound waves."

What does it mean to "hear"? Hearing is the detection of sound waves.
Sound waves can be detected via a number of methods. Just because you favor
a particular method, and your cranium is equipped with one, doesn't mean
that's the only way.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

  #16  
Old September 16th 03, 02:42 PM
Bill Sheppard
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Jay W. asks,

What does it mean to "hear"? Hearing is
the detection of sound waves. Sound
waves can be detected via a number of
methods.


You got a point there, Jay. "Hearing" is a rather ambiguous term. We can
'hear' radio signals using a suitable downconversion device (i.e., a
radio). And we can also hear into the ultrasonic range using a
converter. When 'gravity waves' are finally detected and amplified
sufficiently, we would actually hear them directly, since their
frequency range is expected to overlap the human auditory range. (Look
Ma, no downconversion!)

oc

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  #17  
Old September 16th 03, 02:42 PM
Bill Sheppard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jay W. asks,

What does it mean to "hear"? Hearing is
the detection of sound waves. Sound
waves can be detected via a number of
methods.


You got a point there, Jay. "Hearing" is a rather ambiguous term. We can
'hear' radio signals using a suitable downconversion device (i.e., a
radio). And we can also hear into the ultrasonic range using a
converter. When 'gravity waves' are finally detected and amplified
sufficiently, we would actually hear them directly, since their
frequency range is expected to overlap the human auditory range. (Look
Ma, no downconversion!)

oc

Anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net
Change 'at' to@

 




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