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Manned vs unmanned



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 11th 04, 02:53 AM
Doug Angus
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Default Manned vs unmanned

I'm not sure if this is the right news group to help with this question.
I had an argument with a friend the other day about whether its cheaper
to send a probe to mars than it is to send humans. I say its cheaper
by a long shot to sent probes (ie robots) rather than astronauts to do
space missions. He feels that its the opposite and that NASA is
reluctant to send anyone to Mars for fear of failure and killing humans
(i.e. a public relations disaster). So we figured we need to specify a
particular mission to help narrow things down.

Mission:
Lets say NASA wants to get some rock samples from Mars to bring back to
Earth and that the rocks will be collected from an area 1 km by
1 km.

Scenario 1 - Probe/robot: Lets say the cost for sending the probe not
only involves those associated with the actually transportation and
space craft design, but also the cost of developing, manufacturing and
maybe possibly requiring two missions if the first fails. There may
be some other costs I might be forgetting though.

Scenario 2 - Human: Other than `standard' training and salary for the
astronaut (which I imagine is minimal wrt to all other costs), space
craft design, life support. As well, there could be other costs I'm
forgetting.

Question: which is more economical in dollars, scenario 1 or scenario 2?

  #2  
Old March 12th 04, 01:46 PM
Anthony Garcia
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Default Manned vs unmanned

"Doug Angus" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure if this is the right news group to help with this question.
I had an argument with a friend the other day about whether its cheaper
to send a probe to mars than it is to send humans. I say its cheaper
by a long shot to sent probes (ie robots) rather than astronauts to do
space missions. He feels that its the opposite and that NASA is
reluctant to send anyone to Mars for fear of failure and killing humans
(i.e. a public relations disaster). So we figured we need to specify a
particular mission to help narrow things down.

Mission:
Lets say NASA wants to get some rock samples from Mars to bring back to
Earth and that the rocks will be collected from an area 1 km by
1 km.

Scenario 1 - Probe/robot: Lets say the cost for sending the probe not
only involves those associated with the actually transportation and
space craft design, but also the cost of developing, manufacturing and
maybe possibly requiring two missions if the first fails. There may
be some other costs I might be forgetting though.

Scenario 2 - Human: Other than `standard' training and salary for the
astronaut (which I imagine is minimal wrt to all other costs), space
craft design, life support. As well, there could be other costs I'm
forgetting.

Question: which is more economical in dollars, scenario 1 or scenario 2?


I'm not an expert in the costs associated with such a program but consider
this.

The cost of sending humans will be relatively high not so much because of
their direct costings so much as the design and mission choices that would
be influenced by the fact that humans are on the mission.

1 - The actual craft will have overhead associated with humans such as
consumables (food, energy for lifesupport and comfort, design changes for
life support, additional gear to allow for humans such as space suits,
buggies, additional facilities such as galley and lavatory) while an
unmanned probe need not have such facilities.
2 - There will be costs associated with boosting all of the additional
gear into orbit then into an earth-mars transfer orbit that will not be
incurred for an unmanned mission. Such cost is not inconsiderable.
Compare what was required to send the surveyor probes to the Moon vs
sending the Apollo missions. I think it is arguable one could send
several probes for every single apollo mission that went.
3 - There are PR considerations for and against. It is easier to get
people excited about interplanetary exploration when there is a human
element however they also blanch when they see the price to do so. Space
probes on the other hand still cost a lot but less than human exploration
but they lack as much human element.

  #3  
Old March 17th 04, 06:17 PM
Richie086
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Posts: n/a
Default Manned vs unmanned

Doug Angus wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right news group to help with this question.
I had an argument with a friend the other day about whether its cheaper
to send a probe to mars than it is to send humans. I say its cheaper
by a long shot to sent probes (ie robots) rather than astronauts to do
space missions. He feels that its the opposite and that NASA is
reluctant to send anyone to Mars for fear of failure and killing humans
(i.e. a public relations disaster). So we figured we need to specify a
particular mission to help narrow things down.

Mission:
Lets say NASA wants to get some rock samples from Mars to bring back to
Earth and that the rocks will be collected from an area 1 km by
1 km.

Scenario 1 - Probe/robot: Lets say the cost for sending the probe not
only involves those associated with the actually transportation and
space craft design, but also the cost of developing, manufacturing and
maybe possibly requiring two missions if the first fails. There may
be some other costs I might be forgetting though.

Scenario 2 - Human: Other than `standard' training and salary for the
astronaut (which I imagine is minimal wrt to all other costs), space
craft design, life support. As well, there could be other costs I'm
forgetting.

Question: which is more economical in dollars, scenario 1 or scenario 2?


Consider this..

How and why would we ever send people there without first being able to
conduct a sample return mission? If we cant launch a few rocks off the
surface theres not much hope of getting 1-3 humans much farther
Think of all the things that will have to happen in order to allow
humans to safely land and return. First off, on earth we have all the
engineers, launch pads, rocket fuel, etc needed to get us there. On
mars there is not much in the way of support to help get back off the
surface (as far as i know)..

In order to even land people there we will first have to launch a lot
of support gear beforehand and either have it in orbit around mars ,
waiting for the final human cargo or have it land and hope it lands on
target so the human explorers (assuming they land and survive) wont have
to travel 50 mi just to get a shipment of life support cargo like food
or water.

The human trip to mars will most definatley cost at least twice
(probabally way more than that) as much as any non-manned rover package.

Richie

  #4  
Old April 3rd 04, 02:11 PM
Rodney Kelp
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Posts: n/a
Default Manned vs unmanned

If they sent a probe instead of Lewis and Clark, not much would have been
know about the trip.

"Doug Angus" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure if this is the right news group to help with this question.
I had an argument with a friend the other day about whether its cheaper
to send a probe to mars than it is to send humans. I say its cheaper
by a long shot to sent probes (ie robots) rather than astronauts to do
space missions. He feels that its the opposite and that NASA is
reluctant to send anyone to Mars for fear of failure and killing humans
(i.e. a public relations disaster). So we figured we need to specify a
particular mission to help narrow things down.

Mission:
Lets say NASA wants to get some rock samples from Mars to bring back to
Earth and that the rocks will be collected from an area 1 km by
1 km.

Scenario 1 - Probe/robot: Lets say the cost for sending the probe not
only involves those associated with the actually transportation and
space craft design, but also the cost of developing, manufacturing and
maybe possibly requiring two missions if the first fails. There may
be some other costs I might be forgetting though.

Scenario 2 - Human: Other than `standard' training and salary for the
astronaut (which I imagine is minimal wrt to all other costs), space
craft design, life support. As well, there could be other costs I'm
forgetting.

Question: which is more economical in dollars, scenario 1 or scenario 2?



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