Hey lets outsource satellite launches too.

Bulk foods vs. processed foods are not anecdotal, its in the fine
print of the reports that were quoted by the other post. The *value*
of processed foods is far higher than the value of bulk foods.

Furthermore, the 'net exports' of bulk foods from the USA is not
market driven, its driven by food aid of which the USA provides 55% of
the world's total as part of its geopolitical control strategy.
Market driven trade of *all* foods, processed and bulk, show that the
USA is a net importer of food.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...l7 EdkzjAHirQ

The US subsidizes crops directly to the tune of $8 billion a year.
Another $7.3 billion is used to subsidize the production of crops for
conversion to ethanol. Another $7 billion in food aid to foreign
nations. Another $1.7 billion in other direct food export subsidies,
brings the total to $2 billion per month.

Another $31 billion per month in nutrition subsidies for 15% of all
Americans - while this doesn't promote exports, it does focus on basic
nutrition and skews local production.

The point is, the $2 billion per month in exports is more than paid
for by the US taxpayer and is not a reflection of the competitiveness
of the US farmer. The US farmer is a protected political class that
produces only a fraction of what America consumes. We we 100%
dependent on US farms alone our food quality variety and volume would
be radically reduced.

This is a reflection of the long-term policies of the USA that favor
banking and retail over manufacturing and farming - for the reasons
stated in the documents I cited - to maintain a disparity of income
between the USA and the rest of the world.

On Oct 19, 4:19*am, " wrote:
Why do ANYTHING in america? Jobs? Who cares corporate america can make
more money doing it in other countries, and we americans must not need
jobs....

we can import all of our manufactured products from china, satellite
launches from india, etc etc etc......

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories748.htm

Put William Mook in charge and stand back.

Print foreign currency in order to pay for everything.

What could possibly go wrong?

~ BG

) wrote:
Why do ANYTHING in america? Jobs? Who cares corporate america can make
more money doing it in other countries, and we americans must not need
jobs....

At least the article notes that US government policy currently prohibits
the kind of outsourcing you're concerned about, due to the risk of high
technology being used for military purposes.

One might also argue, though, that the US government kept too tight a
grip on launch capacity for many years. In the US, we've been all
excited about commercialization of space for the last few years, with
the X Prize and all that good stuff... but the French company Arianespace
commercialized launch capability in _1980_ and has been launching stuff
commercially since 1984.

Are you mad about Arianespace too?

--
djb@ | Dan Birchall - Observation System Associate - Subaru Telescope.
naoj | Views I express are my own, certainly not those of my employer.
..org | Oh wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! He is a _naughty_ person.

On Oct 20, 7:44*pm, Dan Birchall
wrote:
) wrote:
*Why do ANYTHING in america? Jobs? Who cares corporate america can make
*more money doing it in other countries, and we americans must not need
*jobs....

At least the article notes that US government policy currently prohibits
the kind of outsourcing you're concerned about, due to the risk of high
technology being used for military purposes.

One might also argue, though, that the US government kept too tight a
grip on launch capacity for many years. *In the US, we've been all
excited about commercialization of space for the last few years, with
the X Prize and all that good stuff... but the French company Arianespace
commercialized launch capability in _1980_ and has been launching stuff
commercially since 1984.

Are you mad about Arianespace too?

--
djb@ | Dan Birchall - Observation System Associate - Subaru Telescope.
naoj | Views I express are my own, certainly not those of my employer.
.org | Oh wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! *He is a _naughty_ person.

Soon China will be outperforming our NASA and USAF combined.

~ BG

(Brad Guth) wrote:
Soon China will be outperforming our NASA and USAF combined.

I think they'd have some catching-up to do on the military front,
but they certainly want to catch up fast in science and technology.
China and India are both aboard the Thirty Meter Telescope project,
for example:

http://www.tmt.org/news-center/china...escope-project
http://www.tmt.org/news-center/india...escope-project

'Course it's still being built in the US.

--
djb@ | Dan Birchall - Observation System Associate - Subaru Telescope.
naoj | Views I express are my own, certainly not those of my employer.
..org | Oh wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! He is a _naughty_ person.

In 1914 Henry Ford astonished the world by raising prevailing wages
from $1 per day for his factory workers to $5 per day. Ask how he
could pay such wages he called the $4 per day 'efficiency wages' that
were earned by workers due to the remarkable efficiency of his mass
production methods which he introduced in 1908. As an aside he said
$5 per day was what his workers needed to make in order to live well
and afford the cars they were making.

The American middle class was born.

And has been opposed by the high class business owners ever since.

2008 was the 100th anniversary of Ford's remarkable mass-production
system. It passed in America un-noticed. Not so in Japan where MITI
vowed to make an unmanned flexible factory commercially viable by 2035
- fifty years after the program demonstrations had started in 1985.

No comparable program exists in the United States supported at such a
high level (though Rennslear Polytechnic MIT and others have mounted
similar university level efforts) the policy of the United States is
to leave manufacturing to our allies assuming that the relative value
of the economic sectors that applied in 1940s will apply in 2040s.

They will not - and they do not today.

Retailing and banking are low value commodities in the digital age

Automation makes manufacturing very highly valued

Resource depletion and environmental costs have radically increased
the cost of raw materials food and energy.

In the digital era it is the preparation for war that is the great
destroyer of wealth, as war was the great destroyer of wealth in the
industrial era.

We must disinvest in the CIA and DOD
We must re-invest in manufacturing, low cost alternative energy, and
advanced food production
We must radically expand our use of off-world assets and resources to
bring new supplies to the center from our collective frontier.

We must do this very soon, or we will not have the chance to do it, as
someone else will do it before us and leave us dependent on them here
on out.

Any competitive game is won at the end, not the beginning. We played
the beginning well. We have removed our most serious decision making
process from critical oversight which is causing us to lose the end
game.

Those who oppose us in the present era do not do so overtly. They
oppose us covertly. Terrorism is a distraction and a tool. At most a
pawn in the battle for dominance that is being waged around us
today.

From 1940 through 1960 the US instituted structural changes that made
it reliant on the continued dominance of the retail and banking sector
as it arranged to pay for its war preparations.

From 1960 through 1980 the US undermined its currency going off gold,
and became dependent on foreign manufacturing and energy rather than
assess the wisdom of its commitment for war preparations in a world at
peace. Wrongly convinced that the world was peaceful *because* of its
preparations.

From 1980 through 2000 the US became dependent on foreign capital
rather than assess the wisdom of war preparations in a continuing
peace. The US organized radical Muslims throughout the world trained
them, funded them, provided weapons and intelligence support in
support of its perceived best interest.

From 2000 through the present the US has lost access to capital as the
radical Muslim movement it spawned turned against us and those who
oppose us covertly execute their wining strategy for the end-game.
The US in response has increased its resolve to be prepared for low
level threats while large pieces of world trade and large threats are
unaddressed.

What can you say about someone who complains that you don't know what
you're talking about when you don't cite sources and then complains
that you're just parroting what you've read when you do? lol.
Obviously anyone like that is on a mission and cares little about the
facts or reality.

Le 21/10/10 04:44, Dan Birchall a écrit :
) wrote:
Why do ANYTHING in america? Jobs? Who cares corporate america can make
more money doing it in other countries, and we americans must not need
jobs....


One might also argue, though, that the US government kept too tight a
grip on launch capacity for many years. In the US, we've been all
excited about commercialization of space for the last few years, with
the X Prize and all that good stuff... but the French company Arianespace
commercialized launch capability in _1980_ and has been launching stuff
commercially since 1984.

Are you mad about Arianespace too?


Arianespace did not outsource the rockets...

They built rockets. What Dan is complaining about is that the U.S. space
industry is getting outsourced to ****ries with lower wages to bypass
the high wages of american engineers.

Obviously when the standard of living of U.S. citizens will be lower
than in India, they will come back.

Isn't "the market" GREAT?

jacob navia wrote:

Arianespace did not outsource the rockets...

They are the outsource when any US satelite is launched on them.

They built rockets. What Dan is complaining about is that the U.S. space
industry is getting outsourced to ****ries with lower wages to bypass
the high wages of american engineers.

Obviously when the standard of living of U.S. citizens will be lower
than in India, they will come back.

Isn't "the market" GREAT?

I remember Japanese products being synonymous with junk and Japanese
labor being cheap. I saw that change across my career. Competing with
cheap overseas labor has been a part of my life as long as I have had a
job. For that matter the American colonies did the exact same thing to
the Brits centuries ago.

The difference now is my grandchildren will probably see a world with no
more places to outsource to. It's remotely possible I'll be alive when
the market saturates the world labor pool and there are no more places
to go for cheap labor. The rate of change toward that is much higher
than when it was only Japan and Taiwan and Singapore.