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#31
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
On Oct 29, 6:58 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"robert casey" wrote in message ... If our priority is better observation and tracking, and the Chinese asat test shows earth orbit is not a very safe place, as the statement indicated with " It no longer takes a sophisticated adversary to impact space and ground systems..." Then what is the alternative to "space and ground"? Themoonis the logical alternative. Yes, theMoonwould be hard to take out with an ASAT, but it's rather too far away... Putin mentioned possible missile defense bases on themoon. Here's a quote by the NY Times from a couple of years ago. "Last March, Luan Enjie, director of the China National Aerospace Administration, described theMoonas ''the focal point wherein future aerospace powers contend for strategic resources.'' Do I need to explain what stategic means? And these quotes were from before the Chinese asat test. When we still thought we could defend our orbital assets. ''TheMoonis a beachhead,'' said Alice Slater, director of the Global Resource Action Center for the Environment, a private group in New York. ''It's the high ground from which they want to control space'' she said of the Bush administration."http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9802E1DF1039F931A15752... And if you think I'm equally nuts for claiming we intend to militarize space, read this quote from the horses mouth...and this was before Bush. Before 9/11 and before the Chinese asat test and before our new aggresive space policy. "As General Joseph Ashy, then commander in chief of the US Space Command, put it in 1996: 'It's politically sensitive, but it's going to happen. Some people don't want to hear this, and it sure isn't in vogue, but -- absolutely -- we're going to fight in space. We're going to fight from space and we're going to fight into space. ' Ashy spoke of 'space control,' the US military's term for controlling space, and space force application,' its definition for dominating Earth from space. Said General Ashy: 'We'll expand into these two missions because they will become increasingly important. We will engage terrestrial targets someday -- ships, airplanes, land targets -- from space. We will engage targets in space, from space.'"http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2465/is_2_31/ai_71634855/pg_5 What do you guys need, a picture of a room full of generals pointing to a picture of themoon? With the caption reading.....place military base here? This is not a hard case to make. Actually the moon's L1 with its tethered LSE-CM/ISS and dipole element that can safely reach to within 2r of mother Earth (closer if you'd dare) is a physics done deal, except that it's also a first come first served consideration that China isn't all that likely to pass up. - Brad Guth - |
#32
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:32:57 -0500, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: "Matt Wiser" wrote in message ... "Jonathan" wrote: (mindless drivel snipped) Boy, your wacko-meter is pretty high, I'd say. Did you escape out of the same lunatic asylum that the Guthball fled? If so, their security has a lot to be desired. Join the other conspiro-wackos, 9-11 "truthers", cheerleaders for the enemy, and other assorted crazies in my killfile, if you don't mind. PLONK. So you don't think going back to the moon is about missile defense....or military objectives? No one who is familiar with physics, and sane, thinks that. |
#33
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) RepeatingItself
Rand Simberg wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:32:57 -0500, in a place far, far away, "Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: "Matt Wiser" wrote in message ... "Jonathan" wrote: (mindless drivel snipped) Boy, your wacko-meter is pretty high, I'd say. Did you escape out of the same lunatic asylum that the Guthball fled? If so, their security has a lot to be desired. Join the other conspiro-wackos, 9-11 "truthers", cheerleaders for the enemy, and other assorted crazies in my killfile, if you don't mind. PLONK. So you don't think going back to the moon is about missile defense....or military objectives? No one who is familiar with physics, and sane, thinks that. Actually, now I'm growing kind of fond of Jonathan's idea of raining gigantic lunar boulder's down upon the world's cities. Consider it to be an 'improvement' over the existing cities. Call it 'urban renewal'. On the other hand, I would think the moon would be an ideal place for locating space based asteroid interceptors, to save the pathetic cities. |
#34
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
On Oct 30, 5:50 am, kT wrote:
Rand Simberg wrote: On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:32:57 -0500, in a place far, far away, "Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: "Matt Wiser" wrote in message ... "Jonathan" wrote: (mindless drivel snipped) Boy, your wacko-meter is pretty high, I'd say. Did you escape out of the same lunatic asylum that the Guthball fled? If so, their security has a lot to be desired. Join the other conspiro-wackos, 9-11 "truthers", cheerleaders for the enemy, and other assorted crazies in my killfile, if you don't mind. PLONK. So you don't think going back to the moon is about missile defense....or military objectives? No one who is familiar with physics, and sane, thinks that. Actually, now I'm growing kind of fond of Jonathan's idea of raining gigantic lunar boulder's down upon the world's cities. Consider it to be an 'improvement' over the existing cities. Call it 'urban renewal'. On the other hand, I would think the moon would be an ideal place for locating space based asteroid interceptors, to save the pathetic cities. Actually the moon's L1 is still the best NEO defense alternative, especially as accommodating those multigigawatt laser cannons, or on behalf of NEO interceptors that are efficiently launched away from my LSE-CM/ISS of 256e6 tonnes worth of such a nifty tethered space depot/ gateway. The moon itself needs to be used as our NEO pincushion. - Brad Guth - |
#35
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
On Oct 27, 8:06 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
First Bush and his Vision to the moon, then Japan, India and now China all gearing up to go back to the moon. ...The same reason for Apollo, we were in a ....military...race with the Soviets. On the other hand, what has humanity done in space since the end of the Cold War? Well...we've put up one-and-a-half space stations, we've got a half-assed heavy booster (which wasn't too reliable to start with; now it's apparently falling apart at the seams), and occassionally we've got a billionaire renting some space on the half- station for a few days. I say bring on the new Space Race. At least something will happen. |
#36
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
On Oct 30, 11:27 am, Damien Valentine wrote:
On Oct 27, 8:06 pm, "Jonathan" wrote: First Bush and his Vision to the moon, then Japan, India and now China all gearing up to go back to the moon. ...The same reason for Apollo, we were in a ....military...race with the Soviets. On the other hand, what has humanity done in space since the end of the Cold War? Well...we've put up one-and-a-half space stations, we've got a half-assed heavy booster (which wasn't too reliable to start with; now it's apparently falling apart at the seams), and occassionally we've got a billionaire renting some space on the half- station for a few days. I say bring on the new Space Race. At least something will happen. I 100% agree, that it's certainly a whole lot better off than having the likes of Japan, China and India making WMD for a living, or much less that of our clear intentions of putting nukes in space. At least while we're busy getting those innocent Muslims traumatised or dead, and otherwise insuring the maximum possible cost for fossil and yellowcake fuel, whereas perhaps Japan, China and India can set those new and improved physics and science standards that'll only benefit humanity, and perhaps even allow some viable degree of progress towards repairing our badly failing environment and/or advancing our human DNA via intelligent design towards becoming a whole lot more rad-hard. - Brad Guth - |
#37
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
On Oct 30, 4:40 am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote: On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:32:57 -0500, in a place far, far away, "Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: "Matt Wiser" wrote in message ... "Jonathan" wrote: (mindless drivel snipped) Boy, your wacko-meter is pretty high, I'd say. Did you escape out of the same lunatic asylum that the Guthball fled? If so, their security has a lot to be desired. Join the other conspiro-wackos, 9-11 "truthers", cheerleaders for the enemy, and other assorted crazies in my killfile, if you don't mind. PLONK. So you don't think going back to the moon is about missile defense....or military objectives? No one who is familiar with physics, and sane, thinks that. What makes you think the likes of our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) is sane? Was putting Christ on a stick for a Zion faith-based PR stunt "sane"? - Brad Guth - |
#38
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
"Damien Valentine" wrote in message oups.com... On Oct 27, 8:06 pm, "Jonathan" wrote: First Bush and his Vision to the moon, then Japan, India and now China all gearing up to go back to the moon. ...The same reason for Apollo, we were in a ....military...race with the Soviets. On the other hand, what has humanity done in space since the end of the Cold War? Well...we've put up one-and-a-half space stations, we've got a half-assed heavy booster (which wasn't too reliable to start with; now it's apparently falling apart at the seams), and occassionally we've got a billionaire renting some space on the half- station for a few days. I say bring on the new Space Race. At least something will happen. China will be a democracy, and no longer a threat, long before we have people stationed on the moon. But by then the program will have spent itself into a committment like the ISS. We're still building the ISS even though the original purpose for it has been entirely abandoned. The new purpose for the ISS, supporting the moon shots, will also be abandoned too in time. Leaving nothing really to show for all the effort. Having military needs driving the civilian space program is a contradiction, one is meant to build, the other destroy. We'll end up with a massively expensive program that delivers about as much as the ISS. Aa space station and moon base 'to nowhere'. NASA could be do much more., we shouldn't settle for whatever Lockheed and other big friends of Bush/Cheney want. NASA is a stocking stuffer for those guys. Nothing more. |
#39
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
"BradGuth" wrote in message ups.com... BTW, any WWIII task will only be accomplished by an all out first strike effort, and if it were launched from the tethered platform that's merely 2r from the core of Earth (that distance being 6371 km from Earth's surface) is not such a great fly-by-rocket distance to travel, especially when having the gravity assist of Earth working on behalf of those items launched towards Earth, which should arrive within less than 10 minutes. If' you'll read the Space Command pdd I just posted, you'll see they see the potential of L points also. Scroll down to page 30 and below, they have the orbits all plotted out. http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/libra...rden_Simon.pdf - Brad Guth - |
#40
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..New Space-Race to the Moon..History is (Tragically) Repeating Itself
On Oct 30, 4:00 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"Damien Valentine" wrote in message oups.com... On Oct 27, 8:06 pm, "Jonathan" wrote: First Bush and his Vision to the moon, then Japan, India and now China all gearing up to go back to the moon. ...The same reason for Apollo, we were in a ....military...race with the Soviets. On the other hand, what has humanity done in space since the end of the Cold War? Well...we've put up one-and-a-half space stations, we've got a half-assed heavy booster (which wasn't too reliable to start with; now it's apparently falling apart at the seams), and occassionally we've got a billionaire renting some space on the half- station for a few days. I say bring on the new Space Race. At least something will happen. China will be a democracy, and no longer a threat, long before we have people stationed on the moon. But by then the program will have spent itself into a committment like the ISS. We're still building the ISS even though the original purpose for it has been entirely abandoned. Too bad the likes of our spendy ISS couldn't have been placed into the moon's L1, as sort of Clarke Station worthy and efficiently station- keeping itself within that interactive zone that's always between Earth and our salty and dirty old moon that's so freaking gamma and X- ray nasty so much of the time. - Brad Guth - |
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