Harvest Moon

Harvest Moon

In a 1993 Sotheby's auction, approximatly 200 miligrams of a
sample return from a Russian luna mission sold for 442000 dollars or
about $2200 per miligram. that's a handy number, about a billion
dollars per pound at that rate.
If after an initial investment of perhaps a hundred million
dollars, it were possible to return samples for in the range of
$100000 a pound, a milligram would cost about $0.22. About the size
of a pinhead it would clearly be visible to the eye and be a
significant landscape to a scanning electron microscope. An out of
this world collectible, with irreproducable micrometeorite impacts,
for under ten dollars, could have a market of millions.
The real potential would be salvageing gold foil from the lower
stage at an Apollo landing site or pieces of the asent stage at a
crash site. 4.3 tons of LEM are still on the moon for each of the six
missions, and they are not making them anymore. Apollo 11 might be
sancrosanct, but 12,14,15,16 and 17 would be fair game.
A harvest moon mission for an astronomical treasure. A market
insured by nostalgia for "the greatest adventure".

Stephen Kearney

Be sure and check with the Smithsonian Institution they bought up the
"rights" to the first LEM at least. They do like having all the
firsts they can.

The sad part is that is because it is some of the first and a lot of
people believe we will not, probably be going back there in the next
30 years.
We now will spend or time scratching at the surface of Mars.

If you build enough of them they will stop coming.


Bob L. Petersen

In article ,
Old Physics wrote:
The real potential would be salvageing gold foil from the lower
stage at an Apollo landing site or pieces of the asent stage at a
crash site. 4.3 tons of LEM are still on the moon for each of the six
missions, and they are not making them anymore. Apollo 11 might be
sancrosanct, but 12,14,15,16 and 17 would be fair game...

Except that they are still the property of the US government. No, they
have not been abandoned in any legal sense; you would need government
permission to sell material taken from them.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

boblpetersen wrote:

Be sure and check with the Smithsonian Institution they bought up the
"rights" to the first LEM at least. They do like having all the
firsts they can.



IIRC, technically, they own them all. They just lend them out to
other groups.

"boblpetersen" wrote in
message ...
Be sure and check with the Smithsonian Institution they bought up the
"rights" to the first LEM at least. They do like having all the
firsts they can.

They bought nothing.

By law the NASM gets first ownership rights to these items.



The sad part is that is because it is some of the first and a lot of
people believe we will not, probably be going back there in the next
30 years.
We now will spend or time scratching at the surface of Mars.

If you build enough of them they will stop coming.


Bob L. Petersen

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...

Except that they are still the property of the US government. No, they
have not been abandoned in any legal sense; you would need government
permission to sell material taken from them.


You know, watching 2010 the other day, I wonder how many people base their
sense of space law off of Floyd's discussion in the movie (and to some
extent in the book) about needing to declare Discovery not space junk so
that the Russians can't claim it.

--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...


Except that they are still the property of the US government. No, they
have not been abandoned in any legal sense; you would need government
permission to sell material taken from them.



You know, watching 2010 the other day, I wonder how many people base their
sense of space law off of Floyd's discussion in the movie (and to some
extent in the book) about needing to declare Discovery not space junk so
that the Russians can't claim it.



That would imply that people saw that movie.

No, this idea predates that by a large margin. Remember that great
70's show called "Salvage"?

Everyone applies what they believe the current laws on salvage are.
(And, get those wrong also).

Harvest Moon

In a 1993 Sotheby's auction, approximatly 200 miligrams of a
sample return from a Russian luna mission sold for 442000 dollars or
about $2200 per miligram. that's a handy number, about a billion
dollars per pound at that rate.
If after an initial investment of perhaps a hundred million
dollars, it were possible to return samples for in the range of
$100000 a pound, a milligram would cost about $0.22. About the size
of a pinhead it would clearly be visible to the eye and be a
significant landscape to a scanning electron microscope. An out of
this world collectible, with irreproducable micrometeorite impacts,
for under ten dollars, could have a market of millions.
The real potential would be salvageing gold foil from the lower
stage at an Apollo landing site or pieces of the asent stage at a
crash site. 4.3 tons of LEM are still on the moon for each of the six
missions, and they are not making them anymore. Apollo 11 might be
sancrosanct, but 12,14,15,16 and 17 would be fair game.
A harvest moon mission for an astronomical treasure. A market
insured by nostalgia for "the greatest adventure".

Stephen Kearney

(Old Physics) wrote in
om:

The real potential would be salvageing gold foil from the lower
stage at an Apollo landing site or pieces of the asent stage at a
crash site. 4.3 tons of LEM are still on the moon for each of the six
missions, and they are not making them anymore. Apollo 11 might be
sancrosanct, but 12,14,15,16 and 17 would be fair game.

You can repeat that as often as you like, but it doesn't make it true.
Henry and Charles are right; the US government still owns the Apollo LMs on
the moon and there are no "salvage rights" to them. Spacecraft are governed
by the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, not salvage law:

http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/treat/ost/outersptxt.htm

Article VIII

A State Party to the Treaty on whose registry an object launched into outer
space is carried shall retain jurisdiction and control over such object,
and over any personnel thereof, while in outer space or on a celestial
body. Ownership of objects launched into outer space, including objects
landed or constructed on a celestial body, and of their component parts, is
not affected by their presence in outer space or on a celestial body or by
their return to the Earth. Such objects or component parts found beyond the
limits of the State Party to the Treaty on whose registry they are carried
shall be returned to that State Party, which shall, upon request, furnish
identifying data prior to their return.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

Jorge R. Frank wrote:

(Old Physics) wrote in
om:


The real potential would be salvageing gold foil from the lower
stage at an Apollo landing site or pieces of the asent stage at a
crash site. 4.3 tons of LEM are still on the moon for each of the six
missions, and they are not making them anymore. Apollo 11 might be
sancrosanct, but 12,14,15,16 and 17 would be fair game.


You can repeat that as often as you like, but it doesn't make it true.
Henry and Charles are right; the US government still owns the Apollo LMs on
the moon and there are no "salvage rights" to them. Spacecraft are governed
by the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, not salvage law:




Technically, if you want to pick at nits, all they did was define
everything in terms of common salvage law. Even under maritime salvage
laws, governmental property is *not* legal salvage. The space treaty
effectively only closes the loophole whereby ownership is relinquished.
In Space Law, the title reverts to governmental control. All the legal
ramifications in terms of salvage flow from that. Ownership is never
relinquished.

In maritime situations, say a ship is lost. Insurance pays off. Then
title then reverts to the insurance company. The insurance then will
strike that title after a certain period and the property (and all its
contents) then becomes common property. That's what happened with the
Titanic. Contrast that with the Bismark. It was sank, but the government
never removed the vessel itself from it's rolls. (It struck it from
the active list). Then, you have th case of the Hunley, which is the
closest approximation to Space Law. It was founded by a government
that no longer exists. Was sunk while in that government's service. When
that government was eliminated, the title and rights automatically
reverted to the controlling government.