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  #1  
Old October 16th 18, 04:26 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Posts: 1,960
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

The joke around here is that it only rained four times this summer‹all
of June, July, August, and September.

When clear weather appeared on the night of 13-14 October* I was ready
for it and I managed to capture this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/45304511761.

* It rained after midnight.

Upton Farm Observatory http://www.primordial-light.com.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
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  #2  
Old October 16th 18, 08:13 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,381
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 4:26:05 AM UTC+1, Davoud wrote:
The joke around here is that it only rained four times this summer‹all
of June, July, August, and September.

When clear weather appeared on the night of 13-14 October* I was ready
for it and I managed to capture this
https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/45304511761.

* It rained after midnight.

Upton Farm Observatory http://www.primordial-light.com.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm


I see this fella is around to remind you all to keep quiet and bully you into silence.


As for summer, the months are May,June July as Polar noon/midsummer falls on the June Solstice in the Northern hemisphere. The Americans won't understand this unless they adopt the Celtic year which divides the year into the dark half and the light half where the dark half begins on November 1st or Samhain and its contemporary equivalent of Halloween. The light half begins May 1st.



  #3  
Old October 17th 18, 01:12 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 4:26:05 AM UTC+1, Davoud wrote:

http://www.primordial-light.com/deeptime.html

"But the Bible says... No, it doesn’t. The Bible doesn’t say anything at all about the age of the Universe or the age of the Earth. The authors of the Book of Genesis didn't know anything at all about the Universe. They didn't know that the Sun is a star or that the Moon and the Earth orbit a common center of mass. They didn't know the value of Pi or that the Earth is round."


These old boys who are basically walking graves and don't have any feel for history nor indeed that the Bible represents dozens of different traditions. Despite the fact that the early Christian brought up observational quandaries that people here today still can't answer, including this fella, these silly statements have less to do with the authors of the books of the Bible than they do about contemporary ignorance -

"Some of the brethren raise a question concerning the motion of
heaven, whether it is fixed or moved. If it is moved, they say, how is
it a firmament? If it stands still, how do these stars which are held
fixed in it go round from east to west, the more northerly performing
shorter circuits near the pole, so that the heaven (if there is
another pole unknown to us) may seem to revolve upon some axis, or (if
there is no other pole) may be thought to move as a discus? To these
men I reply that it would require many subtle and profound reasonings
to find out which of these things is actually so; but to undertake
this and discuss it is consistent neither with my leisure nor with the
duty of those whom I desire to instruct in essential matters more
directly conducing to their salvation and to the benefit of the holy
Church." Augustine

I am afraid the subtle and profound reasoning doesn't really show its face here for while stellar circumpolar motion is an effect of rotation, it cannot be proposed directly to daily rotation as there is another rotation involved when referenced to the Sun and anchored to noon.


  #4  
Old October 18th 18, 08:29 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Posts: 2,789
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 4:26:05 AM UTC+1, Davoud wrote:

http://www.primordial-light.com/deeptime.html

"But the Bible says... No, it doesn’t. The Bible doesn’t say anything at
all about the age of the Universe or the age of the Earth. The authors of
the Book of Genesis didn't know anything at all about the Universe. They
didn't know that the Sun is a star or that the Moon and the Earth orbit a
common center of mass. They didn't know the value of Pi or that the Earth is round."


These old boys who are basically walking graves and don't have any feel
for history nor indeed that the Bible represents dozens of different
traditions. Despite the fact that the early Christian brought up
observational quandaries that people here today still can't answer,
including this fella, these silly statements have less to do with the
authors of the books of the Bible than they do about contemporary ignorance -

"Some of the brethren raise a question concerning the motion of
heaven, whether it is fixed or moved. If it is moved, they say, how is
it a firmament? If it stands still, how do these stars which are held
fixed in it go round from east to west, the more northerly performing
shorter circuits near the pole, so that the heaven (if there is
another pole unknown to us) may seem to revolve upon some axis, or (if
there is no other pole) may be thought to move as a discus? To these
men I reply that it would require many subtle and profound reasonings
to find out which of these things is actually so; but to undertake
this and discuss it is consistent neither with my leisure nor with the
duty of those whom I desire to instruct in essential matters more
directly conducing to their salvation and to the benefit of the holy
Church." Augustine

I am afraid the subtle and profound reasoning doesn't really show its
face here for while stellar circumpolar motion is an effect of rotation,
it cannot be proposed directly to daily rotation as there is another
rotation involved when referenced to the Sun and anchored to noon.




This shows that Augustine, unlike you understood that circumpolar rotation
is the true rotation of the Earth. All he needed to leap right past your
limited and warped understanding was an accurate clock.


  #5  
Old October 19th 18, 06:35 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,381
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 8:30:01 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:


This shows that Augustine, unlike you understood that circumpolar rotation
is the true rotation of the Earth. All he needed to leap right past your
limited and warped understanding was an accurate clock.


The danger of Royal Society empiricism , much like Brexit, is it emerged from the university subculture in Britain and no appeal to reason will change their blinkered attitude as they bluff and bluster their way.

A person capable of using their intelligence will recognise that the RA/Dec framework is in competition with the Lat/Long system for the basic answer to the question 'How long does it take the Earth to turn once ?'. The reasonable answer is once in 24 hours with quite a long explanation covering timekeeping from its emergence in antiquity to demonstrate the rules which tie cyclical timekeeping to cyclical dynamics to a close approximation.

Once the careless Royal Society boys tried to bypass the Sun and the day/night cycle for rotation, cause and effect was lost. If theorists require the Earth to turn once in a value other than 24 hours to hang their agenda and conclusions on then by gosh, the Earth will do their bidding regardless of how ridiculous it is.

( You could have used any other thread to give a similar response but I suppose you are baiting the American)



  #6  
Old October 19th 18, 12:07 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown[_3_]
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Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On 19/10/2018 06:35, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 8:30:01 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins
wrote:


This shows that Augustine, unlike you understood that circumpolar
rotation is the true rotation of the Earth. All he needed to leap
right past your limited and warped understanding was an accurate
clock.


The danger of Royal Society empiricism , much like Brexit, is it
emerged from the university subculture in Britain and no appeal to
reason will change their blinkered attitude as they bluff and bluster
their way.


The Royal Society is concerned with the study or real science and cares
nothing about your inarticulate emotional rantings on the subject.

Brexit was caused by a bunch of power crazed pathological liars writing
a big slogan on the side of a bus that too many of the wilfully ignorant
in the UK were dumb enough to believe. The chickens are coming home to
roost now as Brexit proves to be impossible to deliver. Brexit proves
that Turkeys really will vote for Christmas if suitably motivated.

Brexit might have got off to a better start if they had chosen someone
capable of actually negotiating unlike Donald Duck (aka David Davis) and
the choice of blustering baffoon Boris Johnson for Foreign Secretary who
made us a laughing stock. The only thing they have is the lame slogan
"Brexit means Brexit" with 5 months still to go. Brexit balls up!

A person capable of using their intelligence will recognise that the
RA/Dec framework is in competition with the Lat/Long system for the
basic answer to the question 'How long does it take the Earth to turn
once ?'.


They are just different coordinate systems for answering different
questions on a sphere. One allows you to predict where to find a
position on the Earth and the other where to find a star in the sky.

Why do you have so much difficulty in understanding that the fixed stars
represent a very fundamental reference frame for all of astronomy?

(Hipparchos has managed to measure the proper motions and parallaxes of
around 100000 of the closer stars but the most distant objects are truly
very very fixed reference points - the best ones are quasars for VLBI).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #7  
Old October 19th 18, 02:07 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,381
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 12:07:54 PM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/10/2018 06:35, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 8:30:01 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins
wrote:


This shows that Augustine, unlike you understood that circumpolar
rotation is the true rotation of the Earth. All he needed to leap
right past your limited and warped understanding was an accurate
clock.


The danger of Royal Society empiricism , much like Brexit, is it
emerged from the university subculture in Britain and no appeal to
reason will change their blinkered attitude as they bluff and bluster
their way.


The Royal Society is concerned with the study or real science and cares
nothing about your inarticulate emotional rantings on the subject.


I have news for you boy, I have no regard for people who don't have the intelligence to affirm that the Lat/Long system contains the information for one full rotation of the Earth. I can go so far as to help people out with the dumb idea of projecting the Earth's rotation into an RA/Dec celestial sphere and even commend the system for predicting astronomical events as precise times within the calendar framework but ultimately a dumb and narrow-minded a bunch that has ever existed on the surface of the Earth.

It took the Royal Society dummies 150 years to enact the calendar correction which brings days and dates in line with the Solstice/Equinox points after thew Church enacted the crucial correction back in 1582 so don't talk to me about what is real or ranting.

What is worse is that celestial sphere 'explanations' are creeping in via NASA websites of all places -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170319.html

Emotional ! - you means exasperation that humans can sink this effin low.
  #8  
Old October 19th 18, 02:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,381
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 12:07:54 PM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/10/2018 06:35, Gerald Kelleher wrote:



A person capable of using their intelligence will recognise that the
RA/Dec framework is in competition with the Lat/Long system for the
basic answer to the question 'How long does it take the Earth to turn
once ?'.


They are just different coordinate systems for answering different
questions on a sphere. One allows you to predict where to find a
position on the Earth and the other where to find a star in the sky.



Thanks for the very Brexit-like waffle as the Earth's maximum Equatorial speed is 1037.5 miles per hour and a full 24,901 miles for a complete 360 degree rotations or do you not do these type of equations where is full rotation is extrapolate from a proportion where one hour equates to 15 degrees of rotation ?.

The simple fact is that Newton hung his agenda and conclusion on RA/Dec and you haven't an effin clue how he did it even when it is shown to you exactly what he tried to do -

"That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean distances from the sun.... for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth, or the earth about the sun." Newton

More Brexit-like twaddle that eventually snowballed into a nightmare for astronomy but suits theorists who have zero interest in the antecedent statements of genuine astronomers and through which mathematicians exploited an opening in astronomy.

No wonder your nation is trying to square impossible circles because academic dummies have tried to do that for centuries by trying to bypass the Lat/Long system and the 24 hour system for one rotation.








  #9  
Old October 19th 18, 09:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,381
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 12:07:54 PM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:


Brexit might have got off to a better start if they had chosen someone
capable of actually negotiating unlike Donald Duck (aka David Davis) and
the choice of blustering baffoon Boris Johnson for Foreign Secretary who
made us a laughing stock. The only thing they have is the lame slogan
"Brexit means Brexit" with 5 months still to go. Brexit balls up!


Hey Brown, any dog in the street would have told you it was going to be a '****show' regardless who went to negotiate with the EU because that is what a certain class in English society does. I could watch the whole thing from the historical point of view so for all the print and social media, at least one fella with a bucket over his head got it right -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJzW_gFoXR0


  #10  
Old October 20th 18, 04:05 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 6,928
Default OT? Amateur Astronomy

On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 11:35:06 PM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

A person capable of using their intelligence will recognise that the RA/Dec
framework is in competition with the Lat/Long system for the basic answer to the
question 'How long does it take the Earth to turn once ?'. The reasonable answer
is once in 24 hours with quite a long explanation covering timekeeping from its
emergence in antiquity to demonstrate the rules which tie cyclical timekeeping
to cyclical dynamics to a close approximation.


The naive answer is indeed 24 hours.

If the Earth didn't turn, wouldn't one part of the Earth always face the Sun,
the way Mercury was once thought to do, and the way one side of the Moon always
faces the Earth?

A more complicated explanation, noting that the Earth and Moon have orbits that
aren't perfect circles, and that this has the consequence of *libration in
longitude* for the Moon, and the *Equation of Time* for the Earth, explains why
such a naive viewpoint has a problem.

If the Moon "didn't rotate" it would stay still - it would always face exactly
in one direction. But if not rotating means facing the Earth, well, it wiggles a
bit from side to side.

If the Earth took 24 hours to rotate, then it would take 24 hours between
succesive crossings of a meridian by the Sun. Not more nor less. It wouldn't
cross the meridian up to 15 minutes early for part of the year, and up to 15
minutes late in another part of the year.

At least, not unless something was pushing on the Moon to make it wiggle, or
something was pushing on the Earth to speed it up and slow it down.

Of course, the idea in that preceding paragraph was enunciated clearly by your
bete noire, Isaac Newton, and while you are ready to admit that Newtonian
mechanics might be useful on the Earth's sublunary sphere, you find it improper
or even impious to apply the same principles to the skies.

Neptune wouldn't have been discovered if its gravity, pulling on Uranus, didn't
cause changes in the orbit of Uranus. The Moon's orbit reflects both motions of
the Moon's nodes and of its perigee point that are due to the Sun's gravity.

That the planets and their natural satellites move in response to the same
physical laws that apply to boulders and bricks and, yes, even cannonballs isn't
an opinion or a "disastrous error", it's a fact confirmed repeatedly by long
experience.

John Savard
 




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